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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Tell me everything about this dog, pretty pretty please...

Sires & Dams | Ladobies.com

McNeal's ApolloCreed... DOB 03/09/08

Touting VERY impressive Kimbertal and Cambria lines... I can't get the damn pedigree on the site to open. Share the secrets, wonderful dober slueths!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My bad, the site said Cambria... Couldn't see ped. Give me some some dog names, since I cant open it?
 

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They keep going on and on about how beautiful the "confirmation" of their dogs is. Um, maybe those aren't the real pics then because I don't see beautiful. One of their dams died before age 7. Sad. No cause given.

The pedigrees are mostly junk IMO.

Kimbertal, HOH... what more is there to say?
 

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I cant get it to open either, BUT anyone bragging about Cryptonite is grasping at straws. He was back in the day and dropped dead while breeding a bitch...hmmm...not a whole lot of reasons for that to happen! I can think of one breeder who linebred heavily m Cryptonite and those pups started dropping at 4, I believe. I am sure more bred heavily on him, but can only think of one. Has Kimbertal even had a champion in the last 30 or 40 years?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know there aRe really too many ktal and HoH dogs out there to get a firm grip on this, but any in this ped, or similar, spring to mind with serious structural defects? Not weird conformation, more like congenital bone and/or joint issues?
 

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Holy Mary Mother of God!! I keep thinking that the next dog has to better and they never are!! The confORmation on those Dobes is beyond horrendous!! My mouth was hanging open while looking at them, and it is really hard to believe that anyone could post those thinking that they are good pictures!! Tells me that they don't know anything about the breed. Those bitches look like they are always pregnant - poor girls!!

The pedigrees posted by sam and macks mom are mostly very old pedigrees - certainly most are not recent enough for the dogs she is advertising. There are a few decent dogs way back in one of them, but they date from the 1980's!!
 

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Holy terrible conformation, Batman!
I'm nowhere near a conformation expert (or even a conformation newbie) and even I can see some MAJOR problems in those dogs. Poor dogs, poor pups, poor ignorant puppy buyers.
 

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I could get the pedigree to open but as promised on their website it's a BIG file and I'm on dial up so it's taking forever to load. It looks to me like they stuck the sires pedigree up and the dam's is still not loaded. Ooops--nope that's not what happened--they've taken the ONLY champion in the first pedigree (the Pell dog) and put up his pedigree under that first pedigree of Orions Major Firestorm.

I expect that eventually it's going to load more pedigrees--but you do realize that by the time you go back four or five generations the quality (judged by the fact that there is only one champion in that whole 4 generation pedigree of Orions Major Firestorm) gets pretty iffy.

Except for the Pell dog--the only recognisable name on the first pedigree (is that perhaps McNeal's Apollos Creed's sire?) is Kimbertal. Kimbertal is now and has always been a puppy mill. They were advertising oversized (as if it were a positive thing) dogs when I got my first Doberman in 1959. To the best of my knowledge they have NEVER produced a champion. For awhile in the 70's (I think--it's been too long and I wouldn't want to swear to exactly when they were doing this) they were buying finished champions from decent breeders and breeding them to everything via their sales contract deals on bitches where the "owners" of the bitches were contractually obligated to breed them once or twice and return the litter to Kimbertal to sell. Eventually the breeders got wise--now Kimbertal buys Euro "Youth" champions and does pretty much the same thing. One of the dogs they have been using and touting lately is huge and probably couldn't finish an adult title in Europe and the German standard does have a size disqualification.

That dog they are advertising is 110 pounds? He's either gross;u overweight or greatly oversized. Get the picture? So far I've yet to see any Cambria dog in the pedigrees that have loaded so far.

OK--a bitches pedigree finally loaded and that's all Hoytt basically. These are old pedigrees--the most recent dog is that Orion dog born in 2001. The Hoytt pedigree is really old. It goes back to Ch Hoytt's Colossus (who claim to fame was the fact that he finally got his last major and finished his championship at age 9--and it was bandied about that they bought the judge to get that win.) Hoytt, unlike Kimbertal started out at least as a mediocre show line kennell. They had some OK dogs--but nothing earth shattering and eventually deteriorated into another puppy mill. Now, at greatly inflated prices for the service they sell Doberman and will put Obedience titles on them for you before they send them to you. I don't think they've bred a champion in years.

I didn't look at any of the other pedigrees--I still can't figure out if the four that come up as the BIG file that is supposed to be the link to McNeals whatever actually has the sire and dam--there is a pedigree for one dog who was evidently whelped in 2001 and one bitch that was born the same year since he was born in 2008 it means that they were breeding 7 or 8 year olds.

Who knows? Not me. Hey, OP what's your interest. They have nothing that I'd want to even consider but I look for show prospects when I think about new dogs.

But just a cautionary note--I wouldn't touch a dog from these people on a bet--they evidently can't even figure out how to put a pedigree for a dog together--that's scary.
 

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Barf bag please... :(
 

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I find it difficult to make the connection between the pedigree(s) posted as "Apollo's Pedigree," and McNeal's Apollo Creed's OWN certified pedigree. McNeal's Apollo Creed was born 03-09-08. The 1st pedigree posted is that of Orions Major Firestorm, whelped 10-12-01. The pedigrees below this one are of 3 of the 4 grandparents of Orions Major Firestorm: Kimbertal's Black Dax, Redrocks Night Fire von Hoytt, and Royals Miss Roxanne, all born in the '90s. All 4 pedigrees appear to have been signed/certified on the same day, the 27th of December 2002. Look closely and you will see the date on the 1st pedigree (Orion's Major Firestorm) appears to have been altered (poorly). I can barely make it out, but it looks like the last two digits of 2002 have been penned over-top to read 2011? or maybe 2012. Compare it with the other 3 pedigrees and it's clear that someone has written over top of the original date. How can this not be considered false advertising? The pedigrees posted are not that of McNeal's Apollo Creed, and the date on one of them appears to have been altered. For all we know, McNeal's Apollo Creed may not even be related to these dogs. Or even registered for that matter. I took a quick look around the website and could not find any indication that pups will be "registered" with the AKC, other than "All pups leave out with their AKC paperwork." Directly below that is a link to the kennel's "AKC Compliance Report." Mmmhmm... :cwmddd:

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Not looking to buy a puppy. Lol. I'm trying to run down good candidates on where my RESCUE came from. She was only about 9 weeks when she was found in a ditch, a dump job. In a VERY small town in lousiana. Working backwards from her age and location using the miracle that is the Internet, I can run down classified ads. I can never know where she is from with certainty, but I can have a pretty good guess.

She has a congenital hip issue. I want to know more about the lineage to see if it's popped up before, maybe give us better clues on some other weird structural issues she has as well.

The ONLY thing that gives me pause about this NOT being them is that they breed oversized dogs. Mac could NEVER be considered that. She is freakishly small.
 

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She has a congenital hip issue. I want to know more about the lineage to see if it's popped up before, maybe give us better clues on some other weird structural issues she has as well.
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Unless you're lucky enough to run across someone who actually owned a dog from a byb pedigree, it's virtually impossible to know much of anything about the dogs involved. The kind of people who track pedigrees, who make it their business to know about individual dogs and trends in family groups never even know about these dogs, because none of them are ever in the public eye. They're mystery dogs. There's also a real lack of interest-why should I spend time learning about a pet line? It's not a line I'd ever buy into or breed to.

This is one of the big problems with the whole concept of backyard breeding-the "breeders" don't know much about the "lines" they're working with, either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oh well. It was worth a shot, even if I figured it was a long one. Spent several grand fixing the "what" was wrong, I figured I could spend some time trying to figure out the "why"
 
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