Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Blondeye
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My pup is 6 months he has recently been to k9 obedience in swinton Manchester he's been there solid for two weeks I wasn't keen on the idea but my partner insisted he would benefit. He has done lead training with him but used a choker. He will stay by your side on the lead and choker sit when yanked and lie down when yanked. He will stay lied down and does not follow you. My dog looks broken when you put the choker on.
Without the choker his behaviour is exactly the same he behaves purely out of fear so I am seriously angry because I have no idea what they have done to my puppy. My partner thinks it's fantastic anyway as you can imagine we have argued.
Took him the vet today regarding his skin and he saw another dog and started barking this awful strained rough bark (he came home yesterday) vet looked at his throat and it's bruised and slightly damaged off the choker I want to wrap the choker round this guys neck and never have it touch my dog again and use a nose one if anything but my partner insists we keep using it because he says you don't have to yank it hard anymore.
My dog is my baby I'm getting so upset I just don't get how my boyfriend could want to put it back on him knowing it's damaged him so badly.

Any help I'd appreciate
 

·
____________
Joined
·
243 Posts
A puppy should not get physical corrections! Over correcting a dog can set them up for some serious confidence issues which can then spiral to handler redirected aggression or fear aggression.

I question this training schools validity. I use a trainer who will implement a choke type collar but ONLY if the dog will not respond to any other methods and NEVER, ever at younger than 6 months.

Your poor pup didn't get a chance to show you what he was capable of:( There are some good links to help finding a proper trainer I know some more experienced members will provide for you. Find a better trainer that can use positive methods to build your dogs confidence and trust in you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
If it was me I would throw the choker in the bin and prove that he doesnt need to wear it. I would be wary of the training classes because all of the ones i know do not allow choke chains. I would find another training class that uses positive methods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,944 Posts
Hi welcome to the forum! So sorry about your boy :(

You could find a trainer in your area who is APDT registered and uses positive methods to help you build a bond with your puppy and start training in a much kinder way. How sad to hear of a puppy traumatised in this way. I would want to work on building his confidence and trust in you right away, else who knows what could happen in the future if he is fearful.

Welcome to APDT - Association of Pet Dog Trainers UK

Im sorry if this sounds really abrupt and I dont want to judge, but I would be very wary of a man who is rough or thinks its ok to be rough with animals because, in my opinion, if a man is rough with animals, its not a huge leap to be rough with a woman or a child. Sorry if that offends, but that is how I feel.

Hope you get everything sorted soon!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,803 Posts
Have the vet print out his report on your vet visit. Everything that he sees or says to you is typed in a computer onto your file.

Have your partner read it, show him/her that the choker physically damaged his throat. Heck, even show the trainer and ask for a refund or this story is going to the media.

IMO all dogs should be trained with positive reinforcement with little to no corrections
 

·
Love the Nub
Joined
·
4,897 Posts
It's your dog right? Tell him it's not happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dobegal

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,916 Posts
Bl0ndeye
YOU SHOULD OF JOINED THIS DOBERMAN FORUM, BEFORE HAVING THE CONFIDENCE "CRANK & JERKED" OUT OF YOUR YOUNG PUPPY (IMO).
- #1 problem was being over-ruled in common sense...by your partner
- #2 problem was taking the easy (lazier) way out and sending Romeo away for a solid 2 weeks of training
- puppies are babies and still need our love & constant protection / attention
Sadly, sounds like you could of had a similar training outcome having your dog trained with a 2x4 stick of lumber.
(who really knows what goes on behind closed doors)

While my pups wear a nylon collar & thin choke chain since 3-4 months old, I don't use the choke chain in the old fashion training manner.
I don't even clip the leash to the ring of the chain either, so no way of it pulling tight around the dogs neck...when used like an over sized conventional collar.

Please stick around a learn from the others here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,031 Posts
You need a new boyfriend since the one you have is a mean bully never ever leave your puppy or dog with anyone to train. Choke chains cause tracheal damage you should put it on your boyfriend not your puppy. You need to stand up to your boyfriend by being a door mat your puppy may have been ruined for life. I'm a 63 year old female I would never go along with something I feel is wrong get that choke chain off that puppy. Crank & Yank training is a very old method of training. Most people now days use humane methods of training clicker training, treats rewards, Praise all work better than what you are doing to that poor baby dog. Please if you care anything about your puppy never use that choke chain again. You can find classes you go to with your puppy once a week they give you home work where you learn how to train your puppy. Get rid of the dumb boyfriend you and your puppy will be much happier in the long run.Yes I'm mad at you for not trusting your feelings always trust you own feelings they are usually never wrong.PS: NO ONE can train a puppy in 2 weeks it takes a lifetime of training a little everyday doing obedience, tricks, all should be fun for both of you, I feel so very bad for your baby dog.
 

·
Fawntastic
Joined
·
862 Posts
First, I hope your pup is ok, that's the most important thing.

But second, I disagree, but slightly only on somethings and here's why.

1. I've used a nylon "choke" aka a "training collar" since starting our obedience training at 3 months old.
- this "choke" was properly fitted by our trainer and checked at regular intervals as she grew to make sure it was also the correct size.
- The instructor made sure that each student had a lesson on proper fit, where it was suppose to sit on the dog and the correct amount of pressure to apply for the dogs age and temperment.
- Fit and placement is super important because if done right is only takes the slightest flick of your pinky finger on the leash and the dog gets the minor correction.

So your story sounds like the typical one where someone is using a very good training tool improperly. Because they can be amazing (and safe!) when used correctly under the right tutelage.
In order to get that injury the collar had to be sitting way to low on the dogs neck and clearly to much pressure applied.
The "choke" should be sitting directly under the dogs jaw and directly behind the ears. If it's not, than it's wrong.
Anything lower and you have to apply more pressure for the correction, possibly causing injury.
Dobermans are notorious for have "swan necks". I can not tell you how many times I would like down and see her "choke" slipping down her neck, simply because of the lack of needed pressure (ie she was heeling nicely and the leash was not taunt) and her swan neck. I would then have to move it back into place to make sure I was working with the best tool possible and to not cause any injury.

So to me it sounds like
1. your partner did not know how to properly use the choke. Or was never taught. (the whole snap and jerk is a big no-no anyways.) Anyone who actually trains with a choke should know that. So if I were you I wouldn't give up on the "choke" but the trainer. Find someone who knows what they are doing.

and 2. The "choke" is not properly fitted. It's probably way to big. They need to be small to tuck up under the jaw. And it should not be a slide over the head one. It needs to be one that is fitted for the dog and and you snap on, not slide over.

here is a link to what you should be using as a "choke"/training collar.
Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collarâ„¢

they also have a wonderful video explaining how to properly size it. Just click the video link next to the photo
 

·
Blondeye
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Re feedback

Thankyou for replies have taken everything on board, he was bought for me by partner he works I look after children therefore he is financial part of things that's why I loose on arguments as even though he is mine he throws in he pays for him. This trainers own awards etc he trains police dogs but as I keep reminding my boyfriend Romes is not a police dog he's a family pet. I've thrown the choke chain I also think it was too big.
Also he reponds to me as I walk him so when Andy takes him out Romeos naughty and doesn't listen so it makes him think he's worse than he really is but he's only a very friendly daft pup.
I have rang his family like his brother who he will listen to and told him what's happened so hopefully he will listen to someone else.
Can I just add I didn't take the easy way out I didn't want my dog to go I didn't have a choice it's very hard to have a say when you can't contribute financially regardless of the reasons why I can't.
My pup is fine thanks for all concerned luckily he is very stubborn and bouncy and his old self :)
 

·
Fawntastic
Joined
·
862 Posts
Can you show him the Leerburg video? Show him that if he wants to continue with choke that this is the collar he should be using and how to properly size it?
They are not expensive as far as collars go (certainly cheaper than chain!).
Maybe you could talk him into getting you one? Then you could show him how much better and safer it is for the puppy, and how much better the puppy responds?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Someone I know sent their young GSD off on a 6 week training course with an ex police dog handler. I was 13 at the time and there was nothing wrong with the dog she was just young and needed some time spent with her she walked fime on a lead. She was semt on this course and when she came back she was like a broken dog the owners were told that when she does something naughty shake the choker in her face well they did that and the poor dog was terrified.

I am not saying they are all like this because i have met many police dog handlers and they are great with dogs but just because they train police dogs it doesnt make them a good trainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,449 Posts
Do you need any videos etc of dogs who can behave using more positive methods? I don't use choke chains and don't use physical corrections (yanking on collar etc.) and my dogs are very well behaved. Here are some free fantastic videos on how to train in a more gentle positive manner

kikopup - YouTube
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,031 Posts
Sounds like your boyfriend or partner runs your life, a partner or boyfriend, husband whom ever you live with should take what you say in account if not they are a bully control person not good for your puppy or you. Suppose to talk things over and come to agreement that is good for all parties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Poor puppy.

You need to stand up to this guy for the welfare of the puppy - he has already been damaged, hopefully you can overcome it.

Not healthy that your boyfriend throws back in your face that he is the money maker. That indicates to me that he resents your not working. Hard to advise on this without even knowing either of you, but does not sound like a happy situation. Especially since he does not appear to be at all concerned about what the puppy obviously experienced at the hands of some old-time trainer.

You are responsible for the best interest of the pup, since your boyfriend obviously isn't. Could be you might have to find him a new home if your boyfriend will only continue to man-handle the pup.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,479 Posts
My pup is 6 months he has recently been to k9 obedience in swinton Manchester he's been there solid for two weeks I wasn't keen on the idea but my partner insisted he would benefit. He has done lead training with him but used a choker. He will stay by your side on the lead and choker sit when yanked and lie down when yanked. He will stay lied down and does not follow you. My dog looks broken when you put the choker on.
Without the choker his behaviour is exactly the same he behaves purely out of fear so I am seriously angry because I have no idea what they have done to my puppy. My partner thinks it's fantastic anyway as you can imagine we have argued.
Took him the vet today regarding his skin and he saw another dog and started barking this awful strained rough bark (he came home yesterday) vet looked at his throat and it's bruised and slightly damaged off the choker I want to wrap the choker round this guys neck and never have it touch my dog again and use a nose one if anything but my partner insists we keep using it because he says you don't have to yank it hard anymore.
My dog is my baby I'm getting so upset I just don't get how my boyfriend could want to put it back on him knowing it's damaged him so badly.

Any help I'd appreciate
Our Q grew up on a choker - hes 7 now. We were shown how to use it. He was professionally handled - on a choker. He went through a.prong phase in his young male days. But back to the choker as he knows it its easy to put on and take off etc. Hes never suffered ill effects from it.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,449 Posts
This puppy has already been damaged by choke and/or training methods though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
316 Posts
I'm so sorry to hear about your Romeo. I'm a new dobe owner too and i can understand you probably feel overwhelmed by everything you are told and how you feel and the many contradicting things on the net. I have driven myself crazy with worry about doing the right thing. As the others have said trust your instincts. How your family life is, is your business, just remember that your Romeo is a vulnerable baby and love and affection goes a long way. He's still young so hopefully any trauma will be a distant memory. Good luck with it all and keep us updated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,038 Posts
Thought this was a timely article:

Positive Reinforcement Dog Training in 5 Simple Steps

I also suggest buying the book, The Power of Positive Dog Training, by Pat Miller. It is an excellent positive reinforcment training book.

Amazon has it.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Positive-Dog-Training/dp/0764536095

It is a shame your partner holds his financial support over your head as a controlling device. That is not a good sign of fair play and you two actually being partners in your relationship. It also sounds like the puppy is not really yours, if you don't have the say in how it is to be treated.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top