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Hey guys, I have read through a couple of other threads that touch on this subject but wanted to get specific opinions on the matter. I currently own a 2.5 year old male entire doberman cross (he is a farm dog, 1/8th rottie). Because of him, I discovered Schutzhund (because he was so smart and driven to work so I researched new sports to do with him) and in discovering Schutzhund, I now want a papered dog. That said, I have no intention of retiring my current dog and will keep competing with him even though he can't win anything - he is more than I ever could have hoped for in a dog.

I have wanted a doberman all my life and only ended up with the cross because his breeder seemed to have the dogs closest to breed standard in terms of temperament (looks were secondary for me) and I have been extremely happy with this dog. (I am in Australia btw and we have a serious shortage of quality working dobes) But like 5 years later, I have found a breeder with pure dobermans that I like. We get on very well and I am now due to get a pup in a week after a long wait. Initially I had planned on getting a female to reduce any risk of fighting between the two. All the dogs at our Schutzhund club are entire naturally and we have no issues because they're well trained, but you wouldn't just leave them alone together because they're all very dominant, powerful dogs (except for the mallies lol).

The breeder now feels that in the litter, one of the males is by far the pick for a working home (she has started evaluating and testing them independently). Good grip, good drive, good brains etc and from the videos he does look fantastic. When talking to my club about the issue, they all said that males tend to be nicer to work with and they would all pick the best dog regardless of other factors - they would choose the male. I can divide my backyard and of course separate them whilst I'm not there but when I am there, I would like to be able to have them both in the house with me together. I would also like to be able to go on our bush walks and have both dogs off-lead and just not have to be on guard all the time.

I have no plans to ever desex either dog (for health and sporting reasons) and the breeder would like breeding rights to the male if I take him so they will both be entire. But I can't bear the idea of owning 2 dogs that want to kill each other, if anything happened to my current boy (because when fully grown, he's likely to be the smaller dog), I could never forgive myself.

Does anyone have experience in owning 2 entire males? And what was life like?

(sorry for the long post but just wanted you to have as much information as possible)
 

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terriorist entertainer
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To be honest, I wouldn't do it. There is more than a 98% chance that it won't work and that you will be faced with crate and rotate for the life of the dogs...and expensive vet bills or worse if you don't.
Which state are you in? (obviously not Vic! lol) There are some good lines out there if you're prepared to wait. ...and a female can be very competitive as well.
 

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I would be leary of any breeder that would sell you a Male puppy when you already have a Male at home. Most reputable breeders won't put their puppy, you or your other dog in this situation.

It can be done, but it isn't fun. Things go along quite well until one day there's an issue and for the most part the dogs have to be kept separate all the time.

I did it once and won't do it ever again. Just way too much worry for me.
 

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I know a guy in the schuthund club near us that has an almost identical situation to you he has cross rottie male that is complete AND a male doberman, he has no problems at all.
Having said that he it may not work for you.
I disagree with two points above, firstly I find bitches way better to work with and secondly the breeder wants to keep breeding rights on your male WTF??? i would never accept that I don't care what anyone says on here, a dog is property, he will be your property, if she insists tell her to forget it.
I cannot stand this practice or breeding endorsements purely to prevent you breeding from your dog, as the dogs owner you will know better whether the dog should be bred from than anyone (as long as you know a bit about dog behaviour and breeding)
 

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terriorist entertainer
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ok, I just realised you're in Adelaide. Is this a Valley Gem pup?

honestly two entire males in a house ain't gonna work nicely. Don't risk it. Not worth it.
 

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With a limited gene pool over here Matt, it's pretty common for Breeders to exercise control/rights over breeding via limited register or contract. There are also quite a few less "quality controled" breedings/breeders around that the more quality controlled inclined breeders do not want their dogs associated with ;)
...especially given that those with sought after lines have spent tens of thousands of dollars to get those lines over here, either in the flesh, or in purchasing and storing straws, then performing AI breedings.
 

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I am someone who always loves the boys.
Male dogs and gelding.
All my 5 horses have been boys but they are gelded (neutered)and have a different
herd mentality than the dogs.
I know how you feel about male dogs as I have had a GSD-perfect!! and 2 male Dobes. After our first male Dobe passed i waited a few years for the next.

But here's my thought.
Female Dobes are awesome.
We had Chaos for almost 10 years, red female.
She was an absolute firecracker! So smart and athletic!!! More so than any male I've had (and we have well bred dogs) Saucy Red attitude but very trainable.
We also have a female Shep now, and she too is awesome.
I beleive the girls are smarter than the boys.

You may find a female rewards you in new and wonderful ways.
 

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Keeping them seperated at all times, and having kennels for the dogs to be able to be in without eachother would make it possible, but do not plan an ever having them lose together in the house as soon as the puppy approaches maturity.

Some lower drive dogs get along well with other males on a 'walking together' being 'pet' together basis, but two working males will never. Atleast the working line Doberman's I have been around would kill each other in about 10 seconds flat. However, the bitches are the same way. Male and Female is by far the best combination you could go with. My first real 'working dog' will be a bitch, and although I prefer males, I have no problem with this. A well bred bitch can play the boys so to speak.
 

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I wouldnt risk it. My 6 month old girl has so much drive that she can hardly contain herself; I would play the safe hand and get a female. Wouldnt want to put my boy in an jeopardy at all.
& im not sure why this breeder would even place a male puppy in a home with another male??? not very ethical
 
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terriorist entertainer
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First hand experience. My entire Male working line dobe could be around other entires in a training situation and on lead, but could not share home space or social close space with them off lead. He was fine with neutered males who had good manners and didn't challenge, but if a neutered male tried to take him on and didn't heed his warning growls, he would go them back and hard.
he was a pushover with the ladies though! :D

I also prefer the boys...but now that Basil is here to stay (even though he's now de-sexed), the only dobe I will consider is a female. When Daims was attacked by an off lead entire (GSD) he ended up with drain tubes in his shoulder and the GSD ended up with 3/4 of his nose missing (Daims was on lead) and that fight was broken up pretty much as soon as it was started....two entires don't muck around and play fight, they really mean it and do real damage quickly. :(
 

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You said you read several threads on here about this but you wanted more opinions? Noone is going to change what they said. You know it shouldn't be done and you want both dogs in the house. If you have a kennel situation like some sport people do then fine but for house dogs I think you know the answer. I know of a breeder, with tons of experience, who had two show male champion brothers at home. I think they were 5 or 6 when my story happened. The house was divided in half and the dogs had separate runs etc. The dogs who wanted to fight, lived in a state of unease, which I think is unfair but whatever, one was more aggressive but the other wasn't about to back off when challeged. Ultimately the worst happened. A workman left some gate open, owners didn't know, the dogs had a horrible fight, one had to be put down and the other almost died. They fell off of a terrace fighting. The owner was traumatized, seriously.

I wonder if on an Airedale chat if people say I want two male intact Airdales, doubtful because everyone knows male terries will fight. It is no different with dobes. Listen to your head and do the right thing. Get a female, title her, there are several people on this chat with ScH titled females. Do the right thing for your current dog and get a female.
 

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Generally it's bad idea--while it can be done I sure wouldn't recommend it for someone who hasn't had years of experience with dogs, like Dobes who tend to run to being same sex aggressive.

I don't like bitches so I quit keeping them after my first and only about 50 years ago. I've kept males only--and I'm not even dealing with working dogs but rather with show line males--it requires a lot of attention and even then it all to often doesn't work.

How males interact (or don't interact) on a training field or showground with other males doesn't give you a clue about what 24/7 is like. Even very tolerant males tend to object to other males on their own home turf.

Unless you are prepared to do a crate and rotate or separate areas in the house I'd be looking only at bitches not another male. And if you haven't seen a good working bitch perform many of them are every bit as tough as the intact males.

Good luck...
 

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i very stupidly got two males from the same litter, and ended up having to rehome one when they were twenty months old. if i hadn't one would have ended up dead. it can work with an experienced owner, but you have got to be 100% on the ball with them. after watching my two together i wouldn't advise anyone to get two males. i wouldn't want anyone to have to go through the heartache that i did :(
 

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I have 3 males in my house, 2 Terriers and a Doberman.

All was fine and dandy until one day large Terrier said something to the Dobe he took umbridge over and bham dog fight, a rather unequal dog fight. My Terrier ended up needing emergency surgery. I thought stupidly it was a one off, what a dope I was, because it happened again and again my Terrier ended up having emergency surgery. To this day he is scarred, both physically and mentally.
I love all my boys, but if I had my time over again, even though Toby is my heart dog I would have waited out and gotten a female Doberman not a male.

By the way, the bit about girlies not being as good as the boys, absolute bull. I much prefer female Terriers to work with (rat catching etc) as they have more drive in them. My friend has a female Malinois and whilst her Mainois boy is brilliant she is out of this world for speed and her love of bitework in particular.
 

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Just wanted to add to those who may be questioning the breeder.

Although around here, a reputable doberman breeder (mainly show line) will not allow two males to go to the same home, it is a bit different in the working world. Although people prefer to not deal with same sex aggression, there are many working dog breeders who would still consider it. Someone at my club is actually getting a new shepherd puppy this weekend while he already has another working line male. He has divided his house accordingly, and has built areas outside of his house to keep them separated. Granted they will probably spend more time in 'kennels' than most pets, it does not necessarily mean they or the breeder is bad or unethical. Would I keep a working dog in a kennel? No, but people view pets (and working dogs) differently, and just because we personally do not agree with it, does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I know it is difficult to for us 'pet people' to understand this, but there still are many working dogs and owners who utilize kennels and rotating dogs in the house. That does not mean they love their dogs any less.
 

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With a limited gene pool over here Matt, it's pretty common for Breeders to exercise control/rights over breeding via limited register or contract. There are also quite a few less "quality controled" breedings/breeders around that the more quality controlled inclined breeders do not want their dogs associated with ;)
...especially given that those with sought after lines have spent tens of thousands of dollars to get those lines over here, either in the flesh, or in purchasing and storing straws, then performing AI breedings.
I understand all of the above but have one question:
won't that just make the gene pool even smaller?
 

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unless a person has a lot of dog experience, and will separate them as they get older... I wouldn't recommend it.
Have you ever had to do this before?

A lot of people just rotate their males in the house after the younger one reaches a certain age.
You don't want the other male beating him up and losing his confidence (and/or getting hurt)- especially if you want to do schutzhund.

it depends how you're other male is too though- could be a really submissive, goofy dog that will end up working out. but even then, if you have a really strong male, he might want to gang up on him and pick fights even if the other is submissive. it really depends on both individual dogs I think.

I'm getting a male malinois soon, and even though he's not a dobe, I will most likely have to rotate the two males as he gets older. Jaguar does NOT get along with other intact male dogs (although, LOVES puppies). Even with Elsa, he likes to try and start fights for no apparent reason sometimes. he's just a d*ck.

I'd really think about this- it is a BIG commitment and a lot of time and energy.
 

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Just wanted to add to those who may be questioning the breeder.

Although around here, a reputable doberman breeder (mainly show line) will not allow two males to go to the same home, it is a bit different in the working world. Although people prefer to not deal with same sex aggression, there are many working dog breeders who would still consider it. Someone at my club is actually getting a new shepherd puppy this weekend while he already has another working line male. He has divided his house accordingly, and has built areas outside of his house to keep them separated. Granted they will probably spend more time in 'kennels' than most pets, it does not necessarily mean they or the breeder is bad or unethical. Would I keep a working dog in a kennel? No, but people view pets (and working dogs) differently, and just because we personally do not agree with it, does not mean they are wrong or bad people.

I know it is difficult to for us 'pet people' to understand this, but there still are many working dogs and owners who utilize kennels and rotating dogs in the house. That does not mean they love their dogs any less.

I understand that but due to this person's inexperience and hesitations already, I wouldn't think a serious working breeder would even put one of their pups in that environment as the owner is not confident. If someone has to ask the question, it makes me think that they are not ready for that type of situation.
 
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