[the BullDozerman]

Hi, I just recently adopted a doberman puppy for a humane society.
I took him to a health check and got horrible news that he needs his 9s removed immediately because they are hitting into the roof of his mouth.
Further he has one ball that is getting ready to dissend, but the vet said he could not locate the other, and that it most likely will not disend naturally.

We are new to the breed and need help on what to do. Its a heartbreaking decision if we should keep him or return him to the irresposible pound that gave me a puppy with so many health concerns without notification.

Has anyone raised a dog with those conditions?

 

[Dobejazz]

retained testicles are pretty common and won't affect him except for a more intrusive neuter. How old is he? Does he need puppy teeth or his adult canines removed?

 

[sam&macksmom]

Are you willing to pay for the necessary medical treatment?

An undescended testicle (Cryptochidism) needs to be taken care of. It is a more invasive surgery as often it needs to be located, since it did not descend.

I'm not familiar with k9 removal. Did they give you other options, or just removal?

 

[the BullDozerman]

Thank you for responding. He is 9 weeks old. They said his baby teeth will need to be removed for sure, and possibly his adult teeth, depending on how they come in. There may be other options for helping push them out...
As for his tesicles we are getting very mixed opinions, some say it may be a very big deal, while others have said it could just be a small added cost to neutering.
I am also wondering if this may be a sign of inbred.We have no idea where he came from, we guess he was given up because his defects would make him impossible to sell, we are also very hurt that the humane society gave us this puppy without any warnings its already heartbreaking to see such a young guy suffering

 

[farstar]

I took him to a health check and got horrible news that he needs his 9s removed immediately because they are hitting into the roof of his mouth.

Is it his canines that need to be removed or his "9s", meaning his 309 and 409 (lower molars) that need to be removed?

Do you have a veterinary dental specialist in the area? There are things you can do instead of automatically removing the teeth. Tooth removal is not fun, especially those canines. They have really long roots.

~k

 

[mmctaq]

I am not sure what is done with puppy canines, but I would consult a veterinary dentist for advice before allowing them to be pulled by a general practice vet. If the puppy canines are an issue, I would assume that it is likely that the adult canines will also pose a problem. The only dog I know with this condition had root canals done and the length of the canines reduced by about half so that they were not in contact with the roof of his mouth. This is a fairly specialized procedure, but it is preferable to extraction.

 

[sam&macksmom]

The inguinal ring closes around 16 weeks. If the testicle hasn't dropped by then, typically it won't. Did they give you a quote on the cost for this surgery?

As for his tesicles we are getting very mixed opinions, some say it may be a very big deal, while others have said it could just be a small added cost to neutering.
I am also wondering if this may be a sign of inbred.We have no idea where he came from, we guess he was given up because his defects would make him impossible to sell, we are also very hurt that the humane society gave us this puppy without any warnings its already heartbreaking to see such a young guy suffering

 

[mmctaq]

As for his tesicles we are getting very mixed opinions, some say it may be a very big deal, while others have said it could just be a small added cost to neutering.
I am also wondering if this may be a sign of inbred.

At nine weeks of age, I wouldn't even be willing to call this a retained testicle, yet. It may very well drop on it's own. I would certainly give it a chance to drop before going in surgically and hunting around for it! If it doesn't drop, there is no way to know if it's removal will be a big deal or not... it depends entirely on where it is.

I would not consider either of these conditions to be anything but random bad luck. Well-bred dogs are probably as frequently affected by things like this as poorly bred or inbred dogs.

 

[the BullDozerman]

* From my first post i meant k9. We have not been to specialist yet, only found out today and have not yet had him for a week.

Has anyone raised a dog who had Cryptochidism? Is it known to affect their temperament? I am consulting with the vet tomorrow about the costs of the removal.

 

[the BullDozerman]

The vet said that he could feel one, but that he was unable (at this point) to locate the other. Im looking forward to a follow up call tomorrow now that my emotions have calmed down. I know its a lot of stuff that we would just have to wait out to see if it works itsself out or not, right now we are still tackling puppy diarrhea and dandruff!

 

[sam&macksmom]

Genetics affect temperament, not testicles

Has anyone raised a dog who had Cryptochidism? Is it known to affect their temperament? I am consulting with the vet tomorrow about the costs of the removal.

 

[dapple]

* From my first post i meant k9. We have not been to specialist yet, only found out today and have not yet had him for a week.

Has anyone raised a dog who had Cryptochidism? Is it known to affect their temperament? I am consulting with the vet tomorrow about the costs of the removal.

I know a dog that had this and his temperament was just fine. I don't think having a retained testicle has any bearing on behavior or further health after it is removed. The surgery is a bit more expensive then a regular neuter....but not by a huge amount and it is a little more complicated. But other then that, he should be fine. Also....you may not even have to go down that road, as your pup is still quite young and it may drop on its own.

Your teeth issue, I don't know much about, so can't help you there. But I know that it is not totally uncommon.

If the pup has a nice personality/temperament, and you're happy with him in all other ways, the neuter should not be that big of a deal. It's a one time fix with no long term issues.

Good luck with you little guy.

 

[sam&macksmom]

Not sure if he's your 1st doberman and/or puppy but there's great information on all things dobe puppy here: http://www.dobermantalk.com/dt-educational-archive/9277-puppy-links-infomation.html

Remember, keep everything postive and happy for him :nicejob:

I know its a lot of stuff that we would just have to wait out to see if it works itsself out or not, right now we are still tackling puppy diarrhea and dandruff!

 

[workingk9s]

How about some pics of his bite? I have not heard of such a poor bite where the teeth have to be removed.

As for the retained testicle, a little extra on the surgery but it won't change his personality.

For the record though... it isn't the irresponsible shelter that caused this problem. It was an irresponsible breeder who dumped him there. I am glad you saved his little life. Would be a shame to bring him back for something like this.

 

[melbrod]

Puppy diarrhea sets off a bit of an alarm for me. It may be something no worse than a change of diet and stress, or it could be a sign of worms (fairly common) or it could be something truly life threatening like the onset of parvo. If he is having a lot of watery and/or blood-tinged diarrhea, is vomiting, or looks lethargic, you need to get him in to see a vet very quickly--those could be signs of a very serious infection. Dobermans are very sensitive to parvo and a young puppy with maybe only one puppy shot so far may not be completely protected yet.

If you are just talking about sorta loose stools, without really any signs of increased frequency, lack of appetite or energy, you may be able to just keep a VERY close eye on him for signs of it worsening. One of the most important things to do with a young puppy with loose stools is to make sure he is getting enough fluids, because puppies dehydrate very quickly.



If, after waiting until he is 16 weeks or so old, there is no sign of his testicle dropping, you will need to get him neutered--a testicle retained up in the tummy is prone to cancer and should be removed. As other folks have said, depending on whether they can locate the testicle quickly or not, the surgery could range from just a bit more expensive than a normal neuter (more like the cost of a female spay) to quite a bit more expensive.

A lot of the concern with a retained testicle that you hear is because the dog is not suitable for breeding and cannot be shown in the conformation ring (though he is perfectly suited for agility, obedience and so on). A dog with a retained testicle that has been removed should have the normal temperament of a neutered male dog and should cause you no more trouble than that dog would.

 

[RedFawnRising]

...For the record though... it isn't the irresponsible shelter that caused this problem. It was an irresponsible breeder who dumped him there. I am glad you saved his little life. Would be a shame to bring him back for something like this.

I was about to say roughly the same thing.

Look, adopting from the shelter is saving a life, and I'm fairly certain if you read your adoption paperwork, you will see there is no guarantee, implied or otherwise, that you are getting a perfect specimen for cheap

I do know most shelters allow returns for health issues, but what a shame it would be if the lil dude didn't get a chance, due to some things that are (very likely) fairly easily sorted.

I'm skeptical about the need for the dental extractions, too, and unless the problem is like out-there-severe, I don't see how a general practice vet would be able to tell at such a young age that the procedures will be necessary.

Ditto on the warnings about the diarrhea, particularly in this breed, and particularly with a pup straight out of the shelter environment.

Bottom line...if you're going to be unhappy and dissatisfied with the kiddo for not being plum-perfect, then please do return him, and hopefully he will then be re-adopted by someone for whom these things are just bumps in the road, and not deal-breakers.

 

[thea2003]

We had a foster pup with a pretty bad over bite, we had her until she was about 4.5months old. There was still a possibility that she may need surgery in the future to remove some teeth but at 6 months, there werent any issues, so my assumption is, with even an underbite as severe as hers, you wont have any issues.
The only "issue" she had was picking up kibble, she needed a shallower and wider than normal dish. It didnt affect her enough to make her skinny or anything, just slowed down her eating which isnt always a bad thing!

The undescended testicle isnt a huge deal, just a more invasive, sometimes costs more surgery.

 

[mmctaq]

I'm skeptical about the need for the dental extractions, too, and unless the problem is like out-there-severe, I don't see how a general practice vet would be able to tell at such a young age that the procedures will be necessary.

The OP said that the puppy is suffering. I've seen a Bouvier drill holes into his palate with his lower canines, and it didn't take a rocket surgeon to know there was a problem which needed to be addressed. It may be that there are better solutions than extraction, which is why I suggested a veterinary dentist.

 

[LindaH]

I'm kind of wondering about your vet myself. He seems in a big hurry about these things, rather then giving them a chance to work out. Did he check for worms, giardia, common with stressed pups, there is another common cause of diarrhea, the name slips me now? Did he do a snap test for parvo? /////ETA...Ah, coccidia is the other one.

 

[the BullDozerman]

We had a foster pup with a pretty bad over bite, we had her until she was about 4.5months old. There was still a possibility that she may need surgery in the future to remove some teeth but at 6 months, there werent any issues, so my assumption is, with even an underbite as severe as hers, you wont have any issues.
The only "issue" she had was picking up kibble, she needed a shallower and wider than normal dish. It didnt affect her enough to make her skinny or anything, just slowed down her eating which isnt always a bad thing!

The undescended testicle isnt a huge deal, just a more invasive, sometimes costs more surgery.

This image is exactly what is going on with my poor Dozer, except a little more exagerated. His bottom k9's are now causing inflamed indentations into the top of his mouth.
Do you know what ended up happening to them?
I now understand there is two ideas of what can happen, 1. His jaw/teeth may grow and fix themselves as he grows into himself. 2. Leaving them may cause more damage to the jaw and if it gets worse his teeth could keep protruding and effect his sinuses

I understand that a humane society is not responsible for making sure dogs are perfect, but i feel that this should have visible to any sort of informal health check, and it should have been disclosed to me when I adopted. That being said I am just beginning my research now so i can make the right decision. He is a pet, not a show dog of any sort so looks are the last of my worries

As for the Diarrhea I am not very worried yet. When i adopted him they had none of his current food available for me to take to help him transfer and they used a Kirkland brand (costo is 3 hrs from my house and i dont have a card) so he was forced to abruptly switch. We have him drinking water with electrolytes to help with the dehydration and are planning to wait a few more days and hoping his body works it out.