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I have my dogs hips and elbows evaluated BEFORE I begin jumping them. I was thinking of doing a PennHip eval, sort of a prelim on Zane next month rather then getting an OFA prelim like I did with Coda. Anyone have any personal opinions on PennHip versus OFA?
 

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Sea Hag
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I have my dogs hips and elbows evaluated BEFORE I begin jumping them. I was thinking of doing a PennHip eval, sort of a prelim on Zane next month rather then getting an OFA prelim like I did with Coda. Anyone have any personal opinions on PennHip versus OFA?
One reason I'd avoid using Pennhip is the dog has to be sedated. My vet does OFA rads without sedation.
 

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I don't have any experience with penn hip, but know several people who have done them and have been happy with them.
 
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I know of a good ortho specialist vet who swears by pennhip. I know nothing about it. A friend had her puppy done recently and all went well.
 

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I decided to go with PennHip on Drago because of the latest evidence showing PennHip to be more sensitive than OFA, breed specific, and you can have them done at an earlier age. Here's some information about a study coming to press this fall:

New longitudinal research following canines throughout their lifetimes comparing OFA to PennHIP will be published this fall showing that PennHIP evaluations are about 6 times (on average) more sensitive than OFA. There are over 62,000 animals in the "breed specific" PennHIP database Beyond the normal OFA x-ray, PennHIP does 2-views of the hip undergoing stress (inward and outward). They measure hip laxity or distraction index (DI) when the hips are subjected to outward pressure. PennHIP can be done on animals as young as 16 weeks old, and can now be posted on a dog's OFA - CHIC record.

In general DIs of less than 0.3 [the higher the number the worse the hip] are considered to have "no radiographic evidence of hip dysplasia or DJD." The PennHIP radiographic study is a measurement of hip joint laxity (distraction index) which has been scientifically proven to be a more sensitive predictor of DJD. It should NOT be interpreted as a rating (pass or fail, fair, good, excellent) hip score nor should the DI measured early in life be considered the score for the dog's lifetime of wear and tear on the hip joints. Thus, PennHIP recommends repeat studies at 4 to 5 years and then again around 9 to provide a lifetime average for your dog. These follow up radiographs are not only important for the health of your doberman but provides valuable data to maintain this excellent "breed specific" database. To locate a veterinarian certified to perform PennHIP radiographs or for more information on PennHIP see: http://www.pennhip.org.

I am happy to report that Drago (Katoba's Fire Roller) scored DIs of 0.24 (right hip) and 0.28 (left hip) measured at just under 16 months of age which placed him in the 80th percentile of the dobermans currently listed in the database. In other words, his hips are tighter than 80 percent of the doberman sample. The median DI (50th percentile) for dobermans was 0.35 at the time Drago was measured. The breed specific data is updated semiannually. While PennHIP does not have the funding to make their database fully public accessible, those of us who have participated will be able to view other participant's results. Drago's PennHIP is listed on his OFA record and readily available along with his other CHIC testing for anyone interested in his current health.

Tracy.
 
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I have two problems with the PennHip evaluations. The first has to do with the size of their data base--because they haven't been around all that long their data base is very small by comparison to OFA's data base for a specific breed.

The second is that I "know" of at least two dogs whose hips would not have been able to pass an OFA evaluation who "passed" PennHip. And I'm still not sure what exactly the various measurements actually mean--as in what's normal and what's not.

As far as being able to evaluate hips earlier--you can get a preliminary evaluation from OFA on hips at a very young age and what they say about it is that it can change as much as one level (as in non-pass, fair, good, excellent) between an early review and one done over at over two years.

Does PennHip even do elbows? I wasn't aware that they did.
 

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I have two problems with the PennHip evaluations. The first has to do with the size of their data base--because they haven't been around all that long their data base is very small by comparison to OFA's data base for a specific breed.

The second is that I "know" of at least two dogs whose hips would not have been able to pass an OFA evaluation who "passed" PennHip. And I'm still not sure what exactly the various measurements actually mean--as in what's normal and what's not.

As far as being able to evaluate hips earlier--you can get a preliminary evaluation from OFA on hips at a very young age and what they say about it is that it can change as much as one level (as in non-pass, fair, good, excellent) between an early review and one done over at over two years.

Does PennHip even do elbows? I wasn't aware that they did.
Thanks Dobebug, I was trying to figure out which one to use and I think that I going to go with OFA. Rex is 28 months so it's time to get it done.

Robin and Rex
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OFA's data base would be more impressive if they required, as PennHip does, that all X-Rays taken....be actually sent in and placed in the database. I know of more then a few people who, after the vet looked at the films and determined that the hips probably would not pass, decided not to send them to OFA.

No doubt either method is not full proof - I know of a few OFA eval'd dogs (rated good) that hips were not so good.......I also know of one dog's hips that were prelim eval'd by OFA as HD at 14 months old and good at 25 months old. Whenever a method is "subjective" (ie., different evaluators opinions) there lies the chance of error.

I've decided to prelim him next month using PennHip and at two years old to go OFA - guess I'll see first hand how "close" they are to each other.
 

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I end up doing OFA for all my clients that need it simply because of access - no one I know is certified for PennHip, but if they want it I refer them to UPenn to get it done.

Rah will be OFA'd sometime this week or next, hopefully.

I do agree, I wish OFA required all shots to be sent in.
 

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We do a lot of OFA films in our clinic and one thing that disappoints me is how many people don't initial the release of abnormal results. Some don't want the films sent in. I think many people think that it somehow reflects badly on them if their dog comes back dysplastic. But... the point of the database is to have all results so we can make educated decisions in breeding programs. Without the abnormals, it skews the results. So when you look up an animal on OFA and see it has hips listed, but no elbows.... you have to wonder, did they NOT DO elbows or were the elbows abnormal?
I wish people would realize that by "hiding" the abnormals we are only hurting the breed in the long run. The same goes for DCM in our breed.
I think the dobequest database is great and the more dogs we get on there with honest/complete health results, the more we will be able to learn about and prevent some of these diseases.
I plan to do OFA pre-lims this fall and will do films again at 2 yrs and WILL release the results. If they don't pass, I will spay my girl and love her just the same.... and try again with a different dog.

BTW, I'm glad to see so many people on here doing health testing! :)
 

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Sea Hag
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So when you look up an animal on OFA and see it has hips listed, but no elbows.... you have to wonder, did they NOT DO elbows or were the elbows abnormal?
QUOTE]

Along the same token, when you see elbow clearances on OFA and no hips, it tends to make you go "hhmm".
 
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