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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey yall! It has been a while since I posted all has been going great. Gia graduated from puppy classes Top of her class. She was spayed and did fine through surgery. Her limp ( Pano) has been gone for a while.( Knock on wood)
but She is having these issues...
Zoomy Zommy !!!!!!!!!!! Cant remember her name!!!!!!!!!!!! Who me she looks at me like who are you talkin to????? Yes I can eat everything in sight and what are you gonna do about it...... Runs full force across my couch....... Picks and starts chasing games with her fur members..... More ZOOMY
Yes I am trying as her leader. But really how long does this last? I have been fair but firm but I think she has ADHD in the worst way. Where has my baby Gia who was so perfect gone. I think the aliens stole her. I am about to go zoomy myself!
 

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Long line can help tremendously in these situations. Lots of rewarding for good behavior and helping her stop bad behavior.
 
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From your name Gia's Mom - your obviously a female.

I have trained ladies with dogs before.
- and one think that can crops up is the feminine / nice softer voice ----> the powerful dog, does not always listen to

Make your presence heard / expectations LOUD & CLEAR...and your dobe will start to toe the line more.
- not making my comments a sex debate here
(just offering an honest opinion, helping to find a solution - to an identified & posted problem)
My wife has listen to me long enough...lol...and when she speaks to our dobe...Amy knows Mom means business.
 

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My kiddo is in the ADHD stage too. Zoom zoom! lol. Yesterday we were at our basic obedience class and the trainer thought it would be fun to go for a walk around the neighborhood. I thought I was going to cry! "Mom, look at the squirrel, oh smell the grass, lets go over here, there..." I think she was literally aware of everything and absolutely nothing, all at once.

Our trainer, who is also a good friend, just shook his head at me and laughed. He knows she actually is a a fairly well trained kiddo, but sometimes puppy brain kicks in.

I find she is worse if i try to work her without wearing her out, first. If I want her attention, it requires some fetch, running, tug, something to get some of the puppy zoomies, out first.

My trainer saw my frustration and took her from me for a few minutes. One well timed collar correction and she turned into a little angel. He asked me why I hadn't just done that, and I said I have this weird fear that if I correct the puppy, the puppy police will jump out of the bushes and whisk me away to puppy jail.

not saying that you should correct your dog all the time, but if you save it for really perfect moments, it can sometimes be better then Ritalin.

I have been experimenting with positive only techniques with this pup, and I think she has figured out that I will just wait for her to do something right, so she has time to investigate what she wants and then comes back to work when she is ready. When the trainer corrected her, it was pretty subtle, but it was just enough to give her a consequence for blowing him off.

From your name Gia's Mom - your obviously a female.

I have trained ladies with dogs before.
- and one think that can crops up is the feminine / nice softer voice ----> the powerful dog, does not always listen to
On this topic, I have seen many dogs respond to people who are deaf or cant even speak. Its not about how strong your voice is, its about your intention. I dunno, I guess I just dont think using the "man" voice or yelling at a dog does anything except gain the attention of every human in the area. Which is attention I would rather not have if I am trying to correct my dog in public. As much as I dont agree with him, think about Caesar Millan, he just uses that shush noise and dogs respond to him.
 

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I have been experimenting with positive only techniques with this pup, and I think she has figured out that I will just wait for her to do something right, so she has time to investigate what she wants and then comes back to work when she is ready. When the trainer corrected her, it was pretty subtle, but it was just enough to give her a consequence for blowing him off.
I'm a positive trainer but positive only without any consquences is a recipe for disaster. There must be clear cut boundaries and rules. You also could have done some luring and clicker training to get her attention and it sounds to me like the trainer moved the class too fast and she wasn't ready for all those distractions.
 

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I'm a positive trainer but positive only without any consquences is a recipe for disaster. There must be clear cut boundaries and rules. You also could have done some luring and clicker training to get her attention and it sounds to me like the trainer moved the class too fast and she wasn't ready for all those distractions.
Yes, I work at a shelter and their program stipulates positive only. I thought I would try it, at home, with my new puppy. It works really well for most things, but as she is maturing, I just dont see how it will continue to fly. I am one of those people who is a pretty hands on learner, and my poor dogs are always the guinea pigs. I have to say, I like the idea of never needing to correct my dog, and I have known a very small hand full of dogs that it might work for, but overall I think some of these people are living in happy rainbow land. lol

I did try to lure her and use the clicker but she was too over-stimulated. Unfortunately the rest of the class is comprised of dogs who are 1-3 years old (not a 6 month old, partially deaf, puppy) so they were all perfectly ready to go for a walk. My little pumpkin is just the "special" one :p

In the defense of "positive only" training, this was certainly our first obstacle. She has gone nearly 6 months of life before ever needing a correction. The fact that her first one was only over being somewhat unruly on the walk (with a buckle collar) makes me think that many people rely much more on positive punishment then is necessary.
 

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Yes, I work at a shelter and their program stipulates positive only. I thought I would try it, at home, with my new puppy. It works really well for most things, but as she is maturing, I just dont see how it will continue to fly. I am one of those people who is a pretty hands on learner, and my poor dogs are always the guinea pigs. I have to say, I like the idea of never needing to correct my dog, and I have known a very small hand full of dogs that it might work for, but overall I think some of these people are living in happy rainbow land. lol
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Same here. My joke with myself is at least I don't make the same mistakes twice with the next dog - I just make new ones :) That's how learn and become better trainers. I also joke the hardest dogs to train make me a better trainer overall. I say that a LOT to myself when I start to get frustrated!
 

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From your name Gia's Mom - your obviously a female.

I have trained ladies with dogs before.
- and one think that can crops up is the feminine / nice softer voice ----> the powerful dog, does not always listen to

Make your presence heard / expectations LOUD & CLEAR...and your dobe will start to toe the line more.
- not making my comments a sex debate here
(just offering an honest opinion, helping to find a solution - to an identified & posted problem)
My wife has listen to me long enough...lol...and when she speaks to our dobe...Amy knows Mom means business.


I 100 percent agree with this, my neighbor has a pit bull and never listens to her owner because whenever she is telling Hailey to do something it is in that soft voice and if I were a dog I wouldnt take her serious either. But whenever her brother or I tell her to do something she always listens but that is because we have a serious voice about it.

And just like Maschka1 said is also the intent behind what you say, with my 11 week old puppy he kept chewing on a blanket and I kept telling him no and he wasn't hearing me. But then I remember he doesn't get the concept of no yet so after about 4 times telling him no the 5th time I didn't say anything and used my hand as a soft mouth of another dog and touched him to get his attention and with my energy and my eyes told him I didn't agree with his behavior and he stopped and went to sleep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just laugh! Believe me we got this! Gia is smart but also 100 percent Doberman. She is just at that stage where life is just a little more fun her way. I have eased up on training some say it was wrong but I think the worse thing is for parents to battle all the time with their Children And that goes for dogs too. Gia was having Pano off and on so Mom just eased up on her. Now that the Pano has been less and her hormones have been taken care of. I intend to reenter some slow trAining. She is a teenager now! And I will be exspecting more fRom her. Since she is a Doberman and so smart She knows this is her last run as a puppy. The good thing is I Love her and she Loves me and. We built a relationship of trust early so the issue will be her maturing. Lol whenever that is. We Still practice our down stays and far enoughs. Thanks for all the replies and all of you in the same boat let's swim together :) I am using The long line a lot these days and a lot of prAise but she is alSo very sure this girl is not a push over ;). I have never had a Dog To hit this kind of teenage stuff so fAst and hard but as with everything about this breed it amazes me. But I would not tradde one secound of it. (Hanks Again eveRyone and please prAy for those zoOmmy zooms to lessen :)
 

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........................On this topic, I have seen many dogs respond to people who are deaf or cant even speak. Its not about how strong your voice is, its about your intention. I dunno, I guess I just dont think using the "man" voice or yelling at a dog does anything except gain the attention of every human in the area. Which is attention I would rather not have if I am trying to correct my dog in public. As much as I dont agree with him, think about Caesar Millan, he just uses that shush noise and dogs respond to him.
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Maschka1
I don't teach dog ladies yelling or use yelling myself, even on my own dobe.
One can still raise the pitch authority, in the human voice to project increased power, while still maintaining calm and assertiveness.
- once the calm and assertiveness (as Caesar M. properly practices), goes out the window / the training battle is lost

Maschka1 your correct, dogs can be trained by deaf or people that can't speak verbally.
- much easier, if the dog has a solid foundation of focus and manners

One of my personal training techniques is to re-train my own dog, after it has mastered my verbal commands.
I make up my own sign language and teach it to my dog...Next I will train using a whispered voice.
You should see from this...I don't have to yell or bark out commands.
My dog is an angel in public and effective training can simply start from using a higher intensity pitch voice.

o0 sHaDoWoLf 0o ......+1
- using your hand as a soft mouth touch (like mom dog does to bad mannered litter mates)...is a very easy and most effective tool
I call this just a "little pressure point" touch, of positive correction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My mom has this trouble with her GSD. He will ignore her I can walk in and say the exact thing and he obeys. She is very weak voiced. I do think the pitch has a lot to do with commands. I have that alpha growl kinda voice lol.
 

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I don't growl or grovel and I use a higher pitched tone without any issues. I believe it's more about consistency and how your train than what words you use or their tone. When I first start training I don't name a command until the dog is doing it 100% how I want. So they "know" sit means sit FAST and get that butt on the ground NOW and sit straight, etc. When I hear my voice on video it's highly annoying...

recall come both.AVI - YouTube
 

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Long line I second that. Try tethering her to you in the home for a bit, making her follow you, and look for commands. Try more focus training with her? I am a huge fan of focus/distraction training, you can never over do it with focus games. They are awesome but still keep them fun and short. We do focus games probably 5 times a day, one min each time - Really quick and really fun!!

Some great advice too on tone of your voice. My voice is also VERY annoying when I am playing fetch, training and saying "YES! goooddd girlll!!!" My mom says she can hear me from inside the house when I am in the backyard and that the neighbours are going to think I am insane.. I dont care :) It keeps my puppy involved, focused and I am the most exciting thing to her at that time! If you run around like a dork, and make your puppy so excited to be fixated on you she will always look to you like "What we going to do next mom??".

Just make WHATEVER you are doing with her, and saying to her really fun. Scarlet can not resist coming for to me for a recall when I'm yelling her name in a really fun tone and running around. I look dumb but my dog comes back to me at the dog park pretty reliably :)
 

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*****************************
Maschka1
I don't teach dog ladies yelling or use yelling myself, even on my own dobe.
One can still raise the pitch authority, in the human voice to project increased power, while still maintaining calm and assertiveness.
- once the calm and assertiveness (as Caesar M. properly practices), goes out the window / the training battle is lost


You should see from this...I don't have to yell or bark out commands.
My dog is an angel in public and effective training can simply start from using a higher intensity pitch voice.
So I guess I am confused, then, by your statement. I have heard very mousey women with high pitch, almost baby talk, voices speak with authority or strength. It has very little to do with the actual sound. I do not understand how changing the pitch = the dog listening better.

My dogs are able to execute everything they have learned without any sort of verbal command. I only add the word later, per societal norms.

I work, on a weekly basis, with highly fearful or aggressive dogs, in a shelter environment, (those that are not adoptable due to extreme behavior) we rarely use any sort of verbal cue and our shelter has the highest placement statistics in the country.

Am I totally misunderstanding your statement? in my experience words are never really necessary unless a dog is turned away from you. If I am using an "authoritative" voice, it seems I am demanding my dog to do something instead of asking him to actively and creatively participate in an activity, with me. I prefer to give my dogs choices that ultimately allow them to express their own creative nature, whenever possible.

Now I will say that I understand, maybe using a sterner demeanor as a consequence, but only as a consequence. Is this what you mean?
 
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