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GOT's Kal-Drogo The Horseman (Drogo), CGC, 7 years; RIP Baron, Miley, Dax, Lonesome, Baron #1
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I just can't get it right! Pretty much managed to teach scent discrimination in one session yesterday (will retrieve her cloth out of 5 cloths), but I can't get nice heelwork to save my life! Dunno if I am overthinking things.... its just so dificult! I think I need to retrain so she doesn't look up, while it looks nicer, at jer height I think its making her forge :( attention is slowwwlllyy getting better, but position still sucky argh :( wanna do CD early next year (pretty much the only CDs in my area next year are all in March/April)... so much pressure!
I feel your pain. Baron's heeling really sucked big time when we went for his CDX but because he was pretty good with all the other exercises we were able to qualify. He just dislikes heeling but I am sure most of it is my fault.

These are the videos from the first day. Unfortunately, DH somehow didn't get the third day and title day and that was actually our best heeling of the three days. He is a little challenged when it comes to the camera. Anyway, you can see our heeling is not that good and most of it is my fault. I am sort of a "challenged handler"! But for me, it is all about the green qualifying ribbon. And, actually, we got a 4th place this day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HEiUSqjIqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HEiUSqjIqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti_vD_XaRE0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-T3mRFt_M0
 

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Healing has been our weakness also, but we've really been trying to improve it. Technically you want the dog looking up at your shoulder, it makes the turns and about turns much easier. Picking up the pace has also helped as the dog has to keep up and gets less distracted.

A friend who is very successful in the OB ring has been giving us help on our healing. She has us healing about 5 steps at a time and if Princess is in the right position and watching we stop treat and praise, when doing about turns the same thing, but if she drops her head we give a slight pop and treat when she is in position.

Hopefully we will finish our UD next month and move into the B class, but unless our healing gets better we won't stand a chance against all those damn Border Collies and Golden's that just stare at their owners. ;)
 

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Ha! Ya'll have no idea what bad heeling really is. I'm just glad she stays in the darn ring with me. :D Ilka @ LCCOC May 26, 2012 - YouTube

In her defense, she can and does heel nicely in practice, but gets terribly distracted and overwhelmed at trials, plus she's pretty dog reactive. I'm hoping to get that last CD leg in January, but even is she doesn't get it, that's the end of her AKC obedience career.
 

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GOT's Kal-Drogo The Horseman (Drogo), CGC, 7 years; RIP Baron, Miley, Dax, Lonesome, Baron #1
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That is how I always felt. Just stay in the ring. Best of luck on your last leg. We have retired also. Not going for the UD. I am not a good enough trainer. I might train some of the UD exercises just for fun. I found a trainer fairly close by in the area we moved to. After the holidays going to call and see if she has any classes during the day. I met her when we were trailing for our CDX. She got first place all three days. Talk about focused heeling!
 

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Discussion Starter #65
One of the most helpful things I have found in heeling was the '300 count' game or whatever its called. If the dog is being 'blah' about heeling, I make it more fun. I'll take 1 step, immediately release, play play play. Then take 3 steps, release, reward, play. Then 5 steps, then 7 steps, then up to maybe 30-40 and end the session after that.

I've found that helpful for dogs learning how to build the length/duration but also for cough cough my own dog when I've been slacking on heeling for awhile and he goes a bit 'flat'.

As far as corrections for looking away, this is a very tricky subject. I personally would not do it with a dog until they can positively maintain focus reliably for at least 50 paces, under distractions, and so on. But maybe that's just me. I see wayyy too many people trying to give their dogs nicks with the collar for looking away but 9 times out of ten, the dog just ain't that into it and the handler's timing and corrections are merely making it worse.

I do utilize corrections for looking away, but I am very tentative with how and when I do it depending upon the dog.
 

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i had my boyfriend videotape chills first heeling without cookies in my hand - i think he did well. its far from perfect (and i am super ill - i managed to be upright for 2 hours yesterda and after this heeling i was dying - this upper respiratory infection/flu is KILLING me)...

Chill trains - YouTube

i have to work on his bumping - part of it is my crappy handling and the fact that yesterday our training session was utility open and novice all mixed in, so i had to avoid other dogs (my trainers and i just trained our dogs all over the place yesterday) and the jumps, etc.

cherry is a work in progress. we are retraining her position since she cant do heads up - her front end structure makes her too hard to maintain that position without crabbing significantly, so we are going for a head turn instead. she has good drive but is easily distracted, so we are working on building more drive and rewarding with higher reward treats/toys, with mild corrections for inattention. right now i just want her driving into this position more than anything. we are hoping to have the babies out by the end of this year, qualifying for the All star tournament in 2014 and potentially for the classic in orlando in 2014. chill's mom just finished 15th at the NOI overall (huge for her, since she is very crazy, to go clean all 16 rounds!), and my trainer hopes to take chill's half brother to the classic this year in novice and next year in open! i have my goals - lets see how far we get :) honestly for cherry i want to get out of novice with her as fast as possible :)
 

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fyi in that video - whining care of berlin :) who is making her open debut in 10 days, EEEK. no training for her, we're just giving it a go.... what was i thinking????
 
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I feel your pain. Baron's heeling really sucked big time when we went for his CDX but because he was pretty good with all the other exercises we were able to qualify. He just dislikes heeling but I am sure most of it is my fault.

These are the videos from the first day. Unfortunately, DH somehow didn't get the third day and title day and that was actually our best heeling of the three days. He is a little challenged when it comes to the camera. Anyway, you can see our heeling is not that good and most of it is my fault. I am sort of a "challenged handler"! But for me, it is all about the green qualifying ribbon. And, actually, we got a 4th place this day.

CDX - YouTube

CDX - YouTube

CDX3 - YouTube

CDX4 - YouTube

ahh i love the bloomsburg show site!!!! how did you like showing to barbara doering? i had a bad experience under her years ago, but i think i will try her again with the babies. ive seen her at a few matches with her new rotten.

baron looks good in the ring - his heeling could be better, but be happy with what he has to offer!!! i think you should try utility - i love it!!!! so challenging but thats what makes this all fun!
 
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GOT's Kal-Drogo The Horseman (Drogo), CGC, 7 years; RIP Baron, Miley, Dax, Lonesome, Baron #1
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ahh i love the bloomsburg show site!!!! how did you like showing to barbara doering? i had a bad experience under her years ago, but i think i will try her again with the babies. ive seen her at a few matches with her new rotten.

baron looks good in the ring - his heeling could be better, but be happy with what he has to offer!!! i think you should try utility - i love it!!!! so challenging but thats what makes this all fun!
Thanks Kim. I was just so happy we qualified in 3 days and I know his problems are mostly my problems. Anyway, Barbara was wonderful. Very upbeat and understanding for first timers. We had Tamara Woodrow on Sunday and she was not as understanding and a little "crabby"! Saturday and Sunday we actually got 3rd place by default because only 3 teams qualified. Saturday 3 out of 16 and Sunday 3 out 14. I wish DH would have gotten the Sunday trial on video because that was actually his best heeling and he had straighter fronts. But all in all I am extremely satisified. If you come to Bloomsburg in July, let me know. We now only live 25 minutes from the site.
 

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thanks guys - tonight is class for both dogs (im doing open and novice with both dogs) so i will see if dave can get a video or two of us... as you can see in that video chill is still trying to figure out his striding and work out how not to hop - cherry is doing the same thing and because she wants to put her head up but structurally cant maintain it, she also hops a step every few strides. if thats what i get from her, thats what i will take.
 
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thanks guys - tonight is class for both dogs (im doing open and novice with both dogs) so i will see if dave can get a video or two of us... as you can see in that video chill is still trying to figure out his striding and work out how not to hop - cherry is doing the same thing and because she wants to put her head up but structurally cant maintain it, she also hops a step every few strides. if thats what i get from her, thats what i will take.
Looking forward to more of your videos. They are always an inspiration to how it should be done.
 

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Kim how are you retraining Cherry to keep her head down? One of my friends has pointed out that I should retrain Elsie to keep her head down, as looking up is what is causing her to forge so much (trying to maintain eye contact).

Was thinking of training her to target my leg with her head or something? (dogs can touch handler while in heeling in NZKC, like the UK KC obedience).
 

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For Cherry I am simply bringing food back and restarting her like a baby - she is not looking forward, but slightly turned and looking more toward my hand on my stomach. if she puts her head higher, I will not NOT reward it, but i wont require it for her.

in the ring the only requirement is to stay with me - for cherry there is a chance i will lose all and any attention if she is stressed. but no matter what she needs to stay with me - nowhere in obedience does it state she needs to make eye contact and i dont get extra points. but if i dont expect more from her in training she wont ever EVER give it to me in the ring - so if shes stressed or distracted i already know she drops her head, but she never loses heel position. so ill push for as much as i can get but know like with most dogs, ill get less in the ring. its why i require jumping on every finish, every set up. i want MORE effort in training so i get 75% of that in the ring.
 

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I'm wondering which do you (collective) think is harder to achieve, an OTCh or a UDX? For those unfamilar with AKC obedience, here is an excerpt from the regulations regarding each title.

For Obedience Trial Champion:
"Section 1. Dogs that May Compete. Obedience Trial Championship
points will be recorded for dogs that have earned the Utility Dog title.
When a dog earns the Obedience Trial Champion title, it may continue
to compete and earn points.

Section 2. Championship Points. Obedience Trial Championship
points will be recorded for those dogs that have earned a first, second,
third or fourth place ribbon competing in the Open B or Utility B class,
according to the schedule of points established by the AKC Board of
Directors. When counting the number of eligible dogs in competition,
a dog that is disqualified or excused from the ring by the judge will not
be included.
Requirements for the Obedience Trial Champion are as follows:
The dog must have won:
1. 100 points
2. A first place in Utility B with at least three dogs in competition
3. A first place in Open B with at least six dogs in competition
4. An additional first place under the conditions of 2 or 3 above
5. All three first places under three different judges
Only one of the required first places may have been won at a specialty
show."
Then follows tables showing how many dogs need to be beaten to earn points, rather like Ch. point tables.

For Utility Dog Excellent:
"Section 1. Dogs That May Compete. UDX scores will be recorded
only for dogs that have earned Utility Dog titles. Dogs who already have
the UDX title may continue to compete in Open B and Utility B.
To earn a Utility Dog Excellent title, the dog must have received
qualifying scores in both Open B and Utility B at 10 separate licensed
or member obedience trials.

Section 2. Utility Dog Excellent Title. The AKC will issue a Utility
Dog Excellent certificate and will permit the use of the letters UDX following
the name of each dog that meets these requirements.
The letters UDX will be followed by a numeric designation indicating
the number of times a dog has met the requirements of the UDX title as
defined in the regulations. (UDX2 for 20 qualifying scores, UDX3 for
30 qualifying scores, UDX4 for 40 qualifying scores, etc.)"

I mean, either title is tough, but not every OTCh is a UDX, and not every UDX is an OTCh.
 

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Personally I think an OTCH would be much harder to achieve.

Both are very difficult and you need a very consistent dog to be successful in either.

The difference is a dog that gets mediocre scores and is consistent can earn a UDX. For a dog to earn an OTCH it has to be consistent as well as extremely accurate.

The amount of OTCH points earned for a win is determined on how many dogs are competing and almost twice as many points are given for a Utility win vs an Open win.

OTCH.jpg

If you live in an area that has a lot of competitive handlers (and they all go to the same shows) You will need to score consistently above 197 to have a chance to even earn any points.

I was actually at a show where there were ten dogs entered in Open B, two dogs tied with scores of 200, there was a runoff and the dog that won got 2 OTCH points the runner up got 0.

I feel confident that I can eventually get a UDX but I'll have to see if we are ever able to get to the level to really be competetive with the OTCH folks, as many have been competing for as long as 30 years.
 

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Hmm, I've always thought that getting a UDX might be harder. The thing with the OTCh is that, once you get the required first places in Open and Utility, you could concentrate on whichever class you dog is more consistant in. For example, if you know your dog has trouble with Open, but usually scores well in Utility, you could get most of your points in Utility. For a UDX, your dog has to be, if not brilliant, then at least reliable in both classes.

And as for you dog needing to be a consistantly high scorer, I've seen classes where first place was in the 180's. Heck I've seen classes of 10+ dogs, and every single one NQ'd.
 

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Workingdobe
f you live in an area that has a lot of competitive handlers (and they all go to the same shows) You will need to score consistently above 197 to have a chance to even earn any points.

I was actually at a show where there were ten dogs entered in Open B, two dogs tied with scores of 200, there was a runoff and the dog that won got 2 OTCH points the runner up got 0.

I feel confident that I can eventually get a UDX but I'll have to see if we are ever able to get to the level to really be competetive with the OTCH folks, as many have been competing for as long as 30 years.
You sound like you live where I do. Very competitive here.
 
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