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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello there! My puppy just got to our house on Wednesday!! I was curious, but it is normal for a Doberman puppy to whine in their crate when they are first in it right and it is closed right? I mean, it's a new place you are alone in.. (And she is obssessed with attention), but she really doesn't like her crate. I mean maybe it is just too early to tell, but it is nearly impossible to get her in it. I don't want to force her in there, cause that is rather mean.. but she has to sleep sometime! I am putting her in there in small incremements and only let her out of she is quiet. I NEVER use the crate as a punishment, and I always leave little treats in there she can find on her own, so i am not sure why she despices it so much! Maybe it is because she hates to be alone! Did your puppy do this? Do I just bear it until she stops?
 

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Search "crate games" on YouTube and work with your pup :)

You absolutely need to let your pup cry it out. If you give in you are just teaching your pup that by crying she can get what she wants, and you don't want to deal with an adult Doberman who has separation anxiety issues. My Doberman pup was already crate trained when he came home with me but I had to crate train my husky puppy and it was hell! You just have to endure the crying and eventually they will get used to their crate. My GSD is a rescue who was already crate trained, boy was I thankful for that!
 

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^^^ ... agree with Zelda

The first night here Koa cried ALL NIGHT LONG. It was horrible - I don't think I slept more than like 20 minutes all night. After that, he rarely cried at night (thank God). It took a little bit with the crate games and even now I always treat him when he goes in there when I leave - now when I'm getting ready to leave he knows and all I have to say is "alright, in your room please" and he trots right in there. It's hard at first, but once they're comfortable with it, it's wonderful.
 

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I also feed my dogs in their crates so they really connect positivity with it. I use the commands "breakfast" and "din-din" and they rush into their crates for their meals!
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That is so cute! I put some treats in there, and it is just big enough so she can turn around and sit, and she still pees everywhere! I literally went to get her after she FINALLY stopped, and it was like a swimming pool! Oh dear! I hope she enjoys it more when there is her dinner in there!
 

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u mad?
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I also feed my dogs in their crates so they really connect positivity with it. I use the commands "breakfast" and "din-din" and they rush into their crates for their meals!
I did this too and yes, definitely let her whine it out. I HATED the first few days I had Dreizehn when I had to crate him. He'd whine for 10-15 minutes but it felt like FOREVER! I wanted to just let him out but I promise that eventually it stops and it's SO COMPLETELY WORTH IT.

For example, I took Dreizehn to a dog show and he was crated in a line of 8ish crates (all filled with dobermans by his breeder). My boy was silent in his crate and I was so proud because somebody else's dobe whined the entire time and it was so incredibly annoying.

Crate training has too many benefits to dismiss. It gives your dog a place to call home and feel safe, it keeps them safe while you're gone, if they have to go into a kennel at the vet's office they are MUCH less likely to have any issues (and coming from working in this environment I can tell you that the employees love the quiet dogs much better), if you have to travel with the dogs they'll be used to the crate, etc, etc
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks! Okay for an update, I tried putting her dinner in her crate, but, unlike any other time where she happily eats it, she didn't even touch it! She looked at it, and literally ran in the other direction! I know she is hungry, but she purposely didn't eat it because it was in the crate! Weird! I think I will try not making a big deal out of taking her out. I mean I want to praise her for being quiet, so I say Good puppy and hugs and kisses, but maybe letting her out of the crate when she is quiet is good enough praise? Otherwise I think she might realizes the end is the best part which is a bad thing.
 

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Alpha SheepDog
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The first night we got Nubis, his crate was waiting and the first night he woke up at 3am and I reassured him in a calming tone that everything was okay. The first week or so, I pretended to nap with him and then weened away from it.
Now when he takes naps and feels like whining or barking bcuz HE doesn't want to sleep, those first learned Sleep and Enuf commands lets him know what I want.
Now he is not perfect nor am I, so when he as to pee or poo his bark tone is different and I will let him out to do his thing and then all is good.
 
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That is so cute! I put some treats in there, and it is just big enough so she can turn around and sit, and she still pees everywhere! I literally went to get her after she FINALLY stopped, and it was like a swimming pool! Oh dear! I hope she enjoys it more when there is her dinner in there!
Well, this is not fair.

You kinda sorta rewarded peeing in the crate (the point at which she gave up trying to get you to take her out so she didn't have to pee in there is probably the point at which she became quiet, and then you let her out).

The whole point of a properly-sized crate is for it to become The Sacred, Holy Place Where Dogs Never Eliminate.

You have two, seemingly mutually exclusive mandates here. You do not reward crying in the crate. You do not make it impossible for a puppy to keep the crate clean, and expect her to cry so you will know to take her out. The second mandate trumps the first.

I keep the crate by my bed. I keep my fingers in the crate if needed for the first couple few days. I only crate a tired and "empty" puppy. If, after the puppy has been asleep, the puppy wakes up and cries, we go outside and then back to bed. If the puppy continuously cries the first night(s), I will take the pup out every hour or two and then right back to bed.

Yes, I will see to it that you do not have to pee in there... no, that doesn't mean that you do not go back to the crate.

There is no point right now trying to feed her in there. If you have made the crate become her toilet, it will be disgusting and inappropriate to her to eat in there.
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, this is not fair.

You kinda sorta rewarded peeing in the crate (the point at which she gave up trying to get you to take her out so she didn't have to pee in there is probably the point at which she became quiet, and then you let her out).

The whole point of a properly-sized crate is for it to become The Sacred, Holy Place Where Dogs Never Eliminate.

You have two, seemingly mutually exclusive mandates here. You do not reward crying in the crate. You do not make it impossible for a puppy to keep the crate clean, and expect her to cry so you will know to take her out. The second mandate trumps the first.

I keep the crate by my bed. I keep my fingers in the crate if needed for the first couple few days. I only crate a tired and "empty" puppy. If, after the puppy has been asleep, the puppy wakes up and cries, we go outside and then back to bed. If the puppy continuously cries the first night(s), I will take the pup out every hour or two and then right back to bed.

Yes, I will see to it that you do not have to pee in there... no, that doesn't mean that you do not go back to the crate.

There is no point right now trying to feed her in there. If you have made the crate become her toilet, it will be disgusting and inappropriate to her to eat in there.
Wait sorry, how did I reward peeing in the crate? Not being rude, I just don't want to do it again! :) I keep her crate by my bed too, and kind of drape my hand down. She doesn't usually wake up during the night (although when I put her in her crate at first, she howls bloody murder for about 20 minutes), so I can't tell if she has to go to the bathroom or not, but when we put her in there during the day, I can't always sit right beside her or she will never learn to be alone. I think maybe I should set my alarm for every couple hours during the night to take her out. During the day, I usually put her in there for like 5 mins, take her out if she is quiet, then ten mins, then take her out, and then eventaully it leads up to an hour. My breeder suggested a sort of thin sheet (so the crate isn't bare, but if she pees, she will realize she will get soaked) to put in it. Thanks for the food tip as well, I agree, it isn't fun to eat in what you think is a toilet. Thank you very much!
 

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I don't think I agree with not trying to feed her in it now. So the puppy had an accident in the crate? Whiskey had several and I cleaned it and went on the with routine. He still associates his crate with good things like eating and I don't think that's disgusting OR inappropriate. Clean up the mess very well and move on.
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay, sounds good, thanks!! I have cleaned it out good and there is a piece of weiner in there, so she is sniffing it out! She went all the way in there, and didn't pee! She actually sat in there a good ten seconds, which is progress for me. :)
 

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Wait sorry, how did I reward peeing in the crate? Not being rude, I just don't want to do it again! :)
Possibly, I am guilty of building a mental picture that wasn't correct. I read the "FINALLY" as meaning a long time. My mental picture was that she cried for a long time, she finally quit crying, you went to let her out (to reward the quiet) and she had peed in the cage. I guess what I was thinking is that she was crying because she had to pee, she finally couldn't wait any longer, peed, and became quiet because she no longer was trying to get let out to pee... if this is what happened (and, re-reading, I guess I have no real way to know), then peeing could be interpretted as causing her to be released from the crate. I assumed much... sorry!
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Possibly, I am guilty of building a mental picture that wasn't correct. I read the "FINALLY" as meaning a long time. My mental picture was that she cried for a long time, she finally quit crying, you went to let her out (to reward the quiet) and she had peed in the cage. I guess what I was thinking is that she was crying because she had to pee, she finally couldn't wait any longer, peed, and became quiet because she no longer was trying to get let out to pee... if this is what happened (and, re-reading, I guess I have no real way to know), then peeing could be interpretted as causing her to be released from the crate. I assumed much... sorry!
Ahh I see. I think you may be right in a way. Usually whenever I put her in her crate, she will wail for a good half hour to an hour, and then finally go to sleep. I always make sure she is empty when she goes to her crate so she doesn't want/can't can't pee in it, however, every single time I wake her up, she trots out covered in pee! I figured she would kind of wake up in the middle of the night and whine a little because she had to go, but after she stops, she doesn't whine again.
 

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Ahh I see. I think you may be right in a way. Usually whenever I put her in her crate, she will wail for a good half hour to an hour, and then finally go to sleep. I always make sure she is empty when she goes to her crate so she doesn't want/can't can't pee in it, however, every single time I wake her up, she trots out covered in pee! I figured she would kind of wake up in the middle of the night and whine a little because she had to go, but after she stops, she doesn't whine again.
Could you give an idea of what is going on, time-wise? She gets crated, cries, quits crying... then when is it after then that you wake her up?

You need to know when it is that she is peeing. Does she wail, pee and go to sleep... or, does she wail, go to sleep, wake up, pee and go back to sleep?

Even though it means a temporary zombie life for you, I would be getting her out of the crate before she pees... period. If you need to take her outside before she's done wailing, do it. If she is waking up and peeing, you need to set your alarm and get her outside every couple of hours at first... if you set your alarm for two hours and she has already peed, you need to set your alarm for one hour (later, you will extend the intervals incrementally). When you say that you wake her up... is this in the morning? And she has been in the crate all night? What time is she being put to bed? Are you picking up water a couple of hours before bed? Are you going outside with her to make sure that she is peeing when she is out there, and not just playing around?

This is either a stress thing or you have not done what you need to do to make it possible for her to be successful. It could have started as the latter and become the former... it is awful to be covered in pee, all cold and wet and smelling bad... if the cage where that happens, I would wail, too! The cage really needs to be The Sacred, Holy Place Where Puppies Never Eliminate. You HAVE to figure out what you need to do to make it possible for her to not pee in there!

Is she peeing in the crate when she is put in there for short periods during the day?
 

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Dakota was pretty upset to go in the crate when we brought her home. Her crate is in our walk in closet, facing towards our bed, so she can see and hear us. I got several bully sticks from the store and brought her in the bedroom. I let her smell the bully stick and then threw it in the crate. She went in, grabbed it and ran right out. I took it back threw it in, repeat...pretty quick she realized she could only have the bully stick in the crate.

So then as she went to walk back out with it I halted her and held the bully stick still so she was in the crate with the stick in her mouth. I let her chew on it while I was holding it. After a few minutes she relaxed and laid down. I still held one end so she couldn't take it and run out of the crate. We sat there for a good 20 minutes. Her laying in the crate chewing on the bully stick while I held one end. Then I took the stick away, put it up and let her come out. The door stayed open this whole exercise.

An hour later we did this again. Another hour later we did this again. By this time she would stay in the crate chewing while relaxed as long as I was sitting right by the crate and the door was open. The next time I shut the door but stayed next to the crate. She got a bit upset, but went back to the bully stick after a few minutes, and I sat on the floor by the crate. Repeat at a later time, then finally moved to me getting up and walking around the room....you get the idea. Eventually I could walk out of the room and while she would get upset, she would settle back down. I always made sure she was calm when I closed the door and didn't close the door on a frantic pup and didn't open the door and let her out if she was fussing.

Now she loves her crate and will go in there of her own free will just to rest. We say "crate" and she runs into her crate to get her treat. It took an initial time investment but it was worth it! Good luck to you!
 

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i confined my pup to a small enclosed area with the crate and toys inside and outside the crate. once it got tired guess where it went to sleep? it had two choices, hard floor or a crate with a nice plush towel in it. she still whines when i put her in there and she wants to play, but she doesnt hate it anymore. when she is tired she just goes to bed. The silence is golden. :D
 

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Alpha SheepDog
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Thanks! Okay for an update, I tried putting her dinner in her crate, but, unlike any other time where she happily eats it, she didn't even touch it! She looked at it, and literally ran in the other direction! I know she is hungry, but she purposely didn't eat it because it was in the crate! Weird! I think I will try not making a big deal out of taking her out. I mean I want to praise her for being quiet, so I say Good puppy and hugs and kisses, but maybe letting her out of the crate when she is quiet is good enough praise? Otherwise I think she might realizes the end is the best part which is a bad thing.
She doesn't like the food in there cuz she has been peeing in there and its disgusting to her.
I wouldn't be surprised she was previously crated and left to sit in it and it became a habit. it has to be turned into her den of luxury, not filth.
Make sure if she is covered in pee, she is cleaned and the crate too, with that urine blocker stuff. Keep the crate sectioned just enuf to curl up. Get her hooked on an indestructible toy and put that in with her and a tough piece of your clothing.
But you have to watch her like a hawk so she doesn't pee in there and set alarms at night and take her out.
You don't want this to continue as a habit. When she starts pooing in there , your in trouble.
Lots of praise for clean crate times and immediately take out to pee after exiting crate.
 

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BYB Hunter
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Could you give an idea of what is going on, time-wise? She gets crated, cries, quits crying... then when is it after then that you wake her up?

You need to know when it is that she is peeing. Does she wail, pee and go to sleep... or, does she wail, go to sleep, wake up, pee and go back to sleep?

Even though it means a temporary zombie life for you, I would be getting her out of the crate before she pees... period. If you need to take her outside before she's done wailing, do it. If she is waking up and peeing, you need to set your alarm and get her outside every couple of hours at first... if you set your alarm for two hours and she has already peed, you need to set your alarm for one hour (later, you will extend the intervals incrementally). When you say that you wake her up... is this in the morning? And she has been in the crate all night? What time is she being put to bed? Are you picking up water a couple of hours before bed? Are you going outside with her to make sure that she is peeing when she is out there, and not just playing around?

This is either a stress thing or you have not done what you need to do to make it possible for her to be successful. It could have started as the latter and become the former... it is awful to be covered in pee, all cold and wet and smelling bad... if the cage where that happens, I would wail, too! The cage really needs to be The Sacred, Holy Place Where Puppies Never Eliminate. You HAVE to figure out what you need to do to make it possible for her to not pee in there!

Is she peeing in the crate when she is put in there for short periods during the day?

OKAY MIRACLE! She didn't pee in her crate last night! I put some little food in there, and she went in and ate it, and slept in there without peeing at all! And very little whining! I think it may have been a stress thing, but we will see. I would take her out when she has stopped whining for a minute or so, but never if she is whining. I think she had been whining, sleeping, then peeing in the middle of the night and going back to sleep. Yep she is being waken up in the morning, and we put her to bed at like ten thirty, and she wakes up at six to have breakfast and out for a pee. And I take her out to pee before bed and yep, she definitely goes. She didn't pee in there during the day though. :) Thanks for helping by the way :)
 
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