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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good Evening!

I actually joined to see if I could find any information regarding a breeder in Buckhannon, WV. I saw a recent posting for them having puppies available. Being the person I am, I searched all over the internet to see if I could find any reviews on them. Nothing has turned up. I tried searching the breeder forum, but I don't have enough posts to post there. I looked over the excel sheet posted on this forum for recommended breeders as well as the DPCA website....nothing there either....

They claim that:
Akc registered and will have champion bloodlines which include: Danken dax altobello,Aristo leo di motta visconti,wiking di perlanera and Marvel von kimbertal.

How do I know that they are telling the truth!?!?! I just don't want to be put in a situation that I get a puppy with a lot of health problems.

We can't put out 1500-2500 for a puppy. This isn't my first dobe...the first one we bought when we were young and dumb. I loved her, but she had a lot of health problems because of poor breeding. Good information is hard to find on the internet about breeders. The breeders that have good websites all want 1500+ for their puppies...

Any info would be appreciated!

:thanx:
 

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Hello and Welcome to Doberman Talk!

good luck with your research and search for just the right dog.

Please check out a few rescue dogs as well. Thank you.

Hugz!
 

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u mad?
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Welcome from TX and thank you for doing your research in advance. Breeders that sell dogs from altobello and kimbertal tend to be BYBs. I'd suggest doing a search on Kimbertal. That being said, I'd suggest saving up for a puppy from a more reputable breeder, you'd most likely spend less in the end that way. Yes, theyre more expebsive but thats because of all the effort that the breeder puts in.
 

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The breeders that have good websites all want 1500+ for their puppies...
And breeders that are generally doing things right and have good dogs want $1500+ for their puppies.

I'm sorry but I hate it when someone says that they can't afford something like this (especially when they've been down the path of poor breeding and health problems in the past). You can't afford it *now* maybe. So, why not wait and save? What's wrong with that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone for your kind responses!


And breeders that are generally doing things right and have good dogs want $1500+ for their puppies.

I'm sorry but I hate it when someone says that they can't afford something like this (especially when they've been down the path of poor breeding and health problems in the past). You can't afford it *now* maybe. So, why not wait and save? What's wrong with that?
I'm sorry you hate it...

I guess I'm just not that convinced that ALL BYB are bad, and I can't ever see myself spending 1500+ for a puppy. That might be heresy on a site like this, but I've been around (and owned) enough dogs to know that not everyone has a doom and gloom experience when paying less than 1500 for a puppy. As a matter of fact, I don't know any of my friends or family members who have spent that much on a puppy. Now, I could see your argument if you said that Dobe's were a special breed because of abnormal health issues. Then one could make the argument that it is a must to spend lots of money on a myriad of testing. The alternative, in my eyes, would be to examine the history of the parents. That is hard to do though because I'd say you'd be taking the breeder's word for it. However, if you knew people who did business with the breeder previously and their dogs turned out well, that could mitigate a lot of unknowns in my mind.


I was coming here to try to see if there was any way to weed out good Doberman 'breeders' from bad, and to see if any of you had done business with this particular person.


My particular situation, when I bought my last Dobe, was different. It was my first puppy buying experience alone, and I really wanted a Dobe. There were lots of warning signs that I should have picked up on. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

Take it easy on me, I'm really not a bad person. I have a feeling I may have stirred up some emotions by posting this ;)
 

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If you read some of the past threads on DT, you will understand why all BYB are bad. Dobermans have a ton of health problems, and ethical breeders are doing health testing to try and prevent those issues. Not only that, but Dobermans can have serious temperament issues. I can think of at least five people in the last month that have posted here about temperament issues they are having due to poor breeding. My own girl has had quite a lot of issues with anxiety. She's cost us thousands of dollars in training, vet consults, and meds, all due to a backyard breeder giving no thought to the dogs they were breeding. There's a thread on DT right now about someone who will likely be euthanizing their dog, due to poor temperament (aggression with several bites) from a back yard breeder.

If you feel comfortable risking a dog from a BYB, then please find a Doberman in rescue. Those dogs are from backyard breeders, but you won't be supporting someone who breeds unethically.
 

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I guess I'm just not that convinced that ALL BYB are bad, and I can't ever see myself spending 1500+ for a puppy. That might be heresy on a site like this, but I've been around (and owned) enough dogs to know that not everyone has a doom and gloom experience when paying less than 1500 for a puppy. As a matter of fact, I don't know any of my friends or family members who have spent that much on a puppy. Now, I could see your argument if you said that Dobe's were a special breed because of abnormal health issues. Then one could make the argument that it is a must to spend lots of money on a myriad of testing. The alternative, in my eyes, would be to examine the history of the parents. That is hard to do though because I'd say you'd be taking the breeder's word for it. However, if you knew people who did business with the breeder previously and their dogs turned out well, that could mitigate a lot of unknowns in my mind.
Dobermans DO have a lot of health issues, and if one is a responsible breeder one does spend a lot of money on a myriad of testing. I haven't had a litter in 3+ years, however, I have someone coming later this week to breed to one of my males. Let me just tell you about his health testing alone.

$99 vWD DNA test
$151 brucellosis test
$197 full thyroid panel, liver/kidney panel/CBC
$57 CERF exam for inherited eye problems
$100 cardiac ultrasound (keeping in mind that we are extremely fortunate in my area to have a university study going on, others pay upwards of $600 for this)
$51 PDK4 DNA test for the only gene they've found so far said to cause dilated cardiomyopathy
$235 OFA hip and elbow x-rays and evaluations

I might add that this doesn't include the cost of travelling to all of these clinics (gas is currently $5.25 per gallon here) or my time at all. It was a 90 minute drive to the CERF vet, it's another 90 minute drive to the Vet College for heart exams, it's a 45 minute drive just to my own vet clinic, etc. There were also mailing expenses for the vWD DNA test, for the PDK4 DNA test, for the OFA x-rays, etc. I also might add that it doesn't include any costs for proving the dog's worth for breeding through showing, titling, etc. We're talking about health testing only.

So, we're up to, what, over $900, just to do health testing on a male prior to breeding. He hasn't had a Holter test yet. I intend to buy a monitor which will be $500 and then I'll have a couple of jackets made for when they're wearing it (cost unknown right now) and it'll be $35, I think, for each Holter. He'll be Holtered every year once I have the monitor so the price for keeping up with his testing, and letting his puppy owners know, will continue for the life of the dog. Same for his thyroid, liver/kidney panels and cardiac ultrasounds. The expense is not over. *That* is examining the health of the parents. And by the way, we can provide that kind of information for the grandparents of the litter, etc. It's not cheap to produce healthy dogs. We're not just throwing 2 dogs together and seeing what happens. Which is generally what bybs do. You get to roll the dice either way, but you have some factual information to go by with the responsible breeders.

I've been just talking about a male and his expenses. I've got it easy on that one, because actually having a litter includes doing all of the above for the female AND then the physical care and added expenses of puppies, which again are not cheap if you're providing them with optimum food, appropriate vax and procedures (which in my world includes docking, dew claw removal, cropping, microchip/tattoo, registration, etc). Bybs leave a lot of that on you so you pay for it separate from the purchase price and suddenly what the responsible breeder does for you starts to look pretty good.


I was coming here to try to see if there was any way to weed out good Doberman 'breeders' from bad
Of course there is. Get yourself educated about what questions to ask, understand the problems that Dobermans have and what breeders can and should be doing about them (there is a sticky in the Breeding/Breeders section, I believe, called the Doberman Pinscher Buying Guide - anyone contemplating a purchase would be well advised to spend some time on it), and realize that there isn't a cheap way out.
 

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If you read some of the past threads on DT, you will understand why all BYB are bad. Dobermans have a ton of health problems, and ethical breeders are doing health testing to try and prevent those issues. Not only that, but Dobermans can have serious temperament issues. I can think of at least five people in the last month that have posted here about temperament issues they are having due to poor breeding. My own girl has had quite a lot of issues with anxiety. She's cost us thousands of dollars in training, vet consults, and meds, all due to a backyard breeder giving no thought to the dogs they were breeding. There's a thread on DT right now about someone who will likely be euthanizing their dog, due to poor temperament (aggression with several bites) from a back yard breeder.

If you feel comfortable risking a dog from a BYB, then please find a Doberman in rescue. Those dogs are from backyard breeders, but you won't be supporting someone who breeds unethically.
Hi and welcome to the forum. This is it in a nutshell! Please, please do not support BYB or greeders. You will be doing yourself a favor and the Doberman breed also.
 

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I stumbled upon this forum by trying to research this particular breeder as well. They claim the parents have been tested for the typical medical conditions. Are there any red flags that I should look for? Would there be any better places around WV, PA, etc that you guys would recommend?

hd2gt01, Did you do any more research or visit this breeder?
 

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sufferin succotash
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Welcome to DT. I recommend starting a new thread in the "new member introduction" section. Be sure to tell us what type of dobe you are looking for; sport, show, companion. :)



I stumbled upon this forum by trying to research this particular breeder as well. They claim the parents have been tested for the typical medical conditions. Are there any red flags that I should look for? Would there be any better places around WV, PA, etc that you guys would recommend?

hd2gt01, Did you do any more research or visit this breeder?
 

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Welcome to DT. I recommend starting a new thread in the "new member introduction" section. Be sure to tell us what type of dobe you are looking for; sport, show, companion. :)
I'm definitely looking for an average sized male companion. I've been reading enough here to want to avoid the kimertal kennels near here.
 

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my first Doberman. $50 from a newspaper ad when I was 15 (many years ago). Had never been out of her kennel (up the hill from the house). Afraid of men all her life. Anxiety all of her life. Began dragging front feet within a few years. Continual health and temperament issues till I lost her at 8 yrs old.
ALL of my Dobermans since then. From Champion, health tested parents. Average lifespan on all....10 to 14 years. Good temperaments, well rounded, socialized. There truly is a difference.
 
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