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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone!
My puppy is a 4 month old black/rust male. His name is Allegreto. My puppys been going to his classes for 6 weeks and socializing with the same dogs but today when the yellow female lab Star came in she was skittering on the floor very submissive and Greto grabbed her by the scruff and would not let go at first yank. Took some of her hair out. At breaktime the trainer said to leave him on the leash and she would take care of him and he again did the same thing. This time the trainer yanked him off the floor by his leash and choke chain and up Star came with him scruff in his mouth. He was put in puppy time out. Ive been taking him to Doggie daycare there also twice a week and the owner says that he plays wonderful with everyone. Could anyone give me any insight as to why he would do this? He is not neutered and Star is spayed. I thought perhaps when she came skittering in she perhaps looked like some kind of prey? Thanks for any input!
 

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Alpha SheepDog
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Geez if a trainer pulled my Nubis off the ground by the choke collar I prolly would have corrected the trainer with a black eye.
 

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Yea I'm not sure I'd let a trainer do that to my dog. They shouldn't be yanking a dog off the ground with a choke chain or any other thing that's what I got from this. I've never had a dog with that type of problem but I think your first step might be to find a new trainer I'm not sure I'd trust them to teach me and my dog things if thats their way of correcting a problem. That's just my two cents though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was very surprised since he has never done this before. Perhaps I should clarify the trainer was using the choke chain as a correction, -zip- no -zip- no, and when he did not release his grip on Star she pulled up and his front feet came off the floor. A bit of a scene with a St Bernard and rat terrier trying to chime in. How else would you get your Dobe to release his hold on another animal besides pulling them off? Thank you for your replies.
 

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Holier Than Now
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I was very surprised since he has never done this before. Perhaps I should clarify the trainer was using the choke chain as a correction, -zip- no -zip- no, and when he did not release his grip on Star she pulled up and his front feet came off the floor. A bit of a scene with a St Bernard and rat terrier trying to chime in. How else would you get your Dobe to release his hold on another animal besides pulling them off? Thank you for your replies.

There's so much missing information here, and no one on this board was there to see it happen, but I agree if a "trainer" had manhandled my animal like that, the trainer would likely need a chiro visit themselves, for their own neck.

Hyperbole aside, I would have, if not able to prevent that person's actions, immediately halted them, and left, never to patronize that place again.

So, can you tell us if your pup has been taught a Leave It, Drop It, and Off?

Was this an off-leash socializing period? (If so, your pup likely needs to stop participating in such.)

Or did this occur just during class or prior to start of class, when both pups were on lead?

If so, I fault the handlers and the "trainer" for not preventing inappropriate interaction between the Lab and your pup.

Puppy class can be fine and good for socializing, but there need to be boundaries, folks monitoring who are good at reading canine language, and ongoing evaluation as to whether any particular pup is working well in the group, or needs to move on to something else.

Humans always seem to want their dogs to "play nice" with any other dog they come in contact with, and it's just not realistic or fair to expect our dogs, even as puppies for some of them, to automatically like every other dog.
 

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I wouldn't even go INTO a puppy class if they required choke chains on puppies myself. There shouldn't be any need for them.

If that is how the trainer works with puppy issues, I'd RUN to a new trainer.
 

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First of all, I don't think any 4mo dog needs any type of correction collar (choke, pinch, etc.) I just don't think it is at all necessary at that age and can be avoided. My 4mo has never seen a correction collar, nor felt a correction.

Second, I would definitely seek a new training club...immediately. It sounds like you need some help with your dog, and your dog could benefit from a trainer who actually knows what they are doing. I would look for clubs that actively compete with their dogs. Even if you don't want to go to that level, many obedience and agility clubs offer basic training classes. Who knows, you might really enjoy it and end up continuing to a higher level.

Maybe someone on DT that lives in your area can suggest some clubs for you to try. Trainers that have experience with dobes would also he helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
We've been attending this class for 6 weeks and hes never had a problem with Star before. He loves to play with any dog who will have his rambunctious self. I picked this place because the owner's family breeds Dobermans and trains them as Police dogs so great someone who is very familiar with the breed. But they have someone else come in and train the dogs who is not familiar with the breed. If anyone knows any good trainers in Central Iowa please let me know. Ill go try to find another thread about trainers. Thanks again everyone!
 

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We've been attending this class for 6 weeks and hes never had a problem with Star before. He loves to play with any dog who will have his rambunctious self. I picked this place because the owner's family breeds Dobermans and trains them as Police dogs so great someone who is very familiar with the breed. But they have someone else come in and train the dogs who is not familiar with the breed. If anyone knows any good trainers in Central Iowa please let me know. Ill go try to find another thread about trainers. Thanks again everyone!
Hmmm...dobermans aren't really popular as police dogs. Mind sharing the name of this kennel?

Also, what I meant by finding a trainer familiar with dobes was that you should find someone that actively competes with their dobes, is well respected, and knows what they are doing.

Which it sounds like they don't if they hired a "trainer" that puts a correction collar on a puppy and chokes them with it.
 

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Dogs in a training class shouldn't even be close enough to the other dogs TO bite them.
They should be learning to ignore their surroundings and focus on you, not the other way around.

I would find a new trainer. Choking out a 4 month old puppy (which is what she was doing if she was lifting his front legs off the ground) is not okay, and this person sounds like they have no idea what they are doing.
If your pup is already showing aggression problems, you defiantly need someone who does.
 

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Totally handler and trainer error. The incident should have been avoided in the first place by the handler, and even more unbelievable is that it happened AGAIN and with the "trainer" even after they were aware there was an issue. Wow. I would be so effing pissed off at that "trainer" if I were the owner of the other dog.

And about the "breeds dobermans and trains them as police dogs", that's just laughable.
 

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Hello everyone!
My puppy is a 4 month old black/rust male. His name is Allegreto. My puppys been going to his classes for 6 weeks and socializing with the same dogs but today when the yellow female lab Star came in she was skittering on the floor very submissive and Greto grabbed her by the scruff and would not let go at first yank. Could anyone give me any insight as to why he would do this? He is not neutered and Star is spayed. I thought perhaps when she came skittering in she perhaps looked like some kind of prey? Thanks for any input!
A dog skittering in all submissive is pretty much the doggie equivalent of having a "Bite me!" sign on the dog's butt. The uber-submissive dogs are very frequently targeted by even otherwise socially correct dogs. I would file your dog's behavior away in the back of your head in case you have need to reflect on it later, but I do not see it as any particular red flag at this point. I would not allow him the opportunity to interact with this particular dog again unless you see a radical difference in her demeanor.
 

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Hello everyone!
My puppy is a 4 month old black/rust male. His name is Allegreto. My puppys been going to his classes for 6 weeks and socializing with the same dogs but today when the yellow female lab Star came in she was skittering on the floor very submissive and Greto grabbed her by the scruff and would not let go at first yank. Could anyone give me any insight as to why he would do this? He is not neutered and Star is spayed. I thought perhaps when she came skittering in she perhaps looked like some kind of prey? Thanks for any input!
A dog skittering in all submissive is pretty much the doggie equivalent of having a "Bite me!" sign on the dog's butt. The uber-submissive dogs are very frequently targeted by even otherwise socially correct dogs. I would file your dog's behavior away in the back of your head in case you have need to reflect on it later, but I do not see it as any particular red flag at this point. I would not allow him the opportunity to interact with this particular dog again unless you see a radical difference in her demeanor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
When we first get to class they let they dogs off leash playing in the area we train in. Allegreto is usually there first with my sister and her dog and they play. Well he annoys her and she tolerates him fairly well:) And then his favorite friend at puppy class gets there and he is usually always playing with her. They just go at it all break too. But she was not there this time. Star came in next and her owner says she is only used to humans beings because she was taken away from her littermates too early. She usually sticks by her dad until she army crawls to another human and lays on her side to be petted. Like I said she just skittered in coming to us and Greto just stared at her for a second then grabbed her scruff. Well again thank you all so much for your advice and input. I hope to learn more from all of you and your experiences with Dobes.
 

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karma eccelectic
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European dobermans make excellent tactical police dogs! They are super smart, ready to work and it is not laughable. Although I agree handler and trainer issue. We only trained german sheppard and dobermans because of this reason.....I will say dobies are excellent sniffers but can be great on the attack as well.....
 

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Alpha SheepDog
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OP, after reading some more of your responses I think your little boy is testing his manhood, so to speak. What a better takedown than a dog that is naturally submissive. your pup might have mistaken Stars skittering as stalking. Its really hard to say without seeing all the body signs.
 
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