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joie de vivre
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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone on the forum compete in NADAC trials?

There are several in my area this summer and one of our trainers really wants Fiona and I to enter a few just for some experience in a show environment but I really don't know much about NADAC.

My ultimate goal is to compete in AKC (which we will be later this summer) but I wouldn't mind dabbling in NADAC if it's good for experience building. Fiona and I are not UKC material even for playing around because she's not precise enough and her stride is so big she has a hard time with the tighter courses in UKC, so if NADAC is worth a try for experience we'll do it.
 
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Post on here if you try it!

My instructor does nadac and usdaa trials only now. She got tired of AKC. I have only done/seen AKC trials but have played some games that incorporate the skills of the other organizations.
 

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Fiona and I are not UKC material even for playing around because she's not precise enough and her stride is so big she has a hard time with the tighter courses in UKC, so if NADAC is worth a try for experience we'll do it.
Just a suggestion but don't write UKC off. We cut our teeth at UKC trials and glad we did. Because of the cramped courses you and your dog get the experience of how to maneuver them successfully because at some point you will get an AKC course that is for little dogs and you'll know how to run it. The most fun I had was running UKC. Just a suggestion.....
 

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joie de vivre
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Just a suggestion but don't write UKC off. We cut our teeth at UKC trials and glad we did. Because of the cramped courses you and your dog get the experience of how to maneuver them successfully because at some point you will get an AKC course that is for little dogs and you'll know how to run it. The most fun I had was running UKC. Just a suggestion.....
I was waiting to reply to this so I could speak with one of our trainers about UKC again. We have been recommended against UKC, repeatedly, thru no fault of UKC. :)

Fiona is really fast and our trainers don't want me slowing her down. They want me to focus on me moving her speed and building accuracy at that speed. We would have to slow way down to be able to run UKC courses without being all over the place due to her stride. Which I do not doubt that most Dobermans have a big stride compared to the BC's, Aussies, and Shelties that dominate agility but Dobermans also aren't cutting dogs, so slowing down is necessary on tight courses for a Dobe whereas those other breeds can make sharp turns without giving up a lot of speed.

If Fiona is slowed down, she starts to blow me off. She just doesn't enjoy herself when slowed and we're both too green for me to put that kind of pressure on her in a show environment and expect her to respond desirably.

Maybe UKC would be fine and a positive experience but our trainers are cautioning against starting Fi on those courses because if she does blow me off or stress out and not have fun, that could impact how she responds in other rings starting out. So our trainers are trying to recommend good courses for us - ones that are built to suit bigger striding and faster dogs moreso than UKC courses tend to.

I have to say, the UKC trials I watched last summer...there's no way I'd put Fiona to test on those courses. They were great for the smaller breeds running them but it would be asking too much of Fiona right now. I just want her to have fun and set her up to be successful in sticking with me. I don't think she'd stick with me on a tight course yet.

Our club does offer UKC agility classes, so it's something we could definitely focus on and get help with but my main goal is to compete AKC with her and I like to let her run because she is awesome when she's really moving. :) Honestly, somehow she listens much better when moving full speed than when I'm trying to slow her down.
 

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We did UKC very early and Bacchus was Banzai Bacchy at that point. I have worked at slowing him down so that we can both enjoy the run. He runs....I trudge. I very much understand the rationale behind not doing UKC due to the speed issue.

A story....

Back when we were doing UKC it was difficult because of Bacchus pretending to be a border collie. A number of other people at the trials would tell me to "let him loose" or "go with it". So, at a UKC trial I had one last run and really didn't need the Q. We had enough to title that day. I decided to let the others see the real Bacchus kamikaze the course. Outdoor trail on a slope and mole holes everywhere to make matters worse. Sitting at the far end of the course on the tailgate of his truck was a man a little older than me with the two top 10 BCs in UKC. We would see each other at almost every trial. At ringside I announced to the gathering of the others that I was going to turn him loose. Laughter, giggles and "it's about time" were some of the responses. Once I heard "go" I led out and yelled to Bacchus and at the same time took off as fast as I could. He passed me at the 2nd jump. All I could see was that brown butt patch. I did my very best to keep him on course but he was running like his head was on fire. At one point he had to do a sharp 180 and he was going so fast he fell down, rolled, popped up and never slowed down. He hit the pause table so hard it fell over. I don't think the tire jump would ever be the same. Finally we finished the course.....not together but I managed to get to the finish. Then we walked out of the ring......comments like "oh my gawd" and "now I know why" were mixed with laughter. My response was "That's Bacchus unleashed!!" I made my way back to the parking lot huffing and puffing and passed the truck where Don and his two borders were sitting. He quietly said to me "that boy's got speed" then grinned and shook his head.

Now when I run my guy and we move around the ring at a nice comfortable pace I am glad Bacchus has gotten to this point but I still sometimes think back to that day. I don't think I would have survived "Banzai Bacchus" and perhaps he wouldn't have either.
 

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joie de vivre
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Discussion Starter #6
LOL!!! I am laughing so hard picturing that!!!! LOL LOL I'm glad you both survived "Banzai Bacchus." :)

When we first started training I would ask our trainers, "How do I slow her down?" LOL I was lovingly yelled at so many times. Now, when I'm completely out of breath and covered in sweat, one of our trainers will remind me that I'm young and I have long legs and I'll get no sympathy from any of them for having a fast dog. If I lose too much speed while running our other trainer will yell at me, "People pay damn good money for a crazy dog! RUN!" Hmm...I think they're kind of dog trainers and personal trainers now that I think about it... LOL
 

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LOL!!! I am laughing so hard picturing that!!!! LOL LOL I'm glad you both survived "Banzai Bacchus." :)

When we first started training I would ask our trainers, "How do I slow her down?" LOL I was lovingly yelled at so many times. Now, when I'm completely out of breath and covered in sweat, one of our trainers will remind me that I'm young and I have long legs and I'll get no sympathy from any of them for having a fast dog. If I lose too much speed while running our other trainer will yell at me, "People pay damn good money for a crazy dog! RUN!" Hmm...I think they're kind of dog trainers and personal trainers now that I think about it... LOL
Run Forest run. I love a wild dog. I hate being able to usually get the FCs in. I want a dog that I have to RC. I want to run my ass off. I want to put distance skills on my dog so I can throw them in the tunnel and race off in the opposite direction, do the weaves independently and the contacts without babysitting. That's why I have Jill. But she's hit a slow point right now and instead of galloping over the dw, she is doing a really fast canter - want her full stride at full speed all the time (with split rear feet of course).

Be wild and crazy and go run NADAC with your heart in your mouth - big wide open safe courses. Then put the NADAC distance skills on her so you stand in the middle of your tight AKC course and be the ringmaster. I love being ringmaster - Enid got really good at that. Get some lateral distance going and that will lead to fast times with a dog that knows where they are going.

Ever watched a really good NADAC handler standing there using just a tilt of the head to send their dog to an obstacle 3 layers away? If you want to do gamblers at Masters level, you need distance and speed. Go for it - do NADAC! Or ASCA!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Run Forest run. I love a wild dog. I hate being able to usually get the FCs in. I want a dog that I have to RC. I want to run my ass off. I want to put distance skills on my dog so I can throw them in the tunnel and race off in the opposite direction, do the weaves independently and the contacts without babysitting. That's why I have Jill. But she's hit a slow point right now and instead of galloping over the dw, she is doing a really fast canter - want her full stride at full speed all the time (with split rear feet of course).

Be wild and crazy and go run NADAC with your heart in your mouth - big wide open safe courses. Then put the NADAC distance skills on her so you stand in the middle of your tight AKC course and be the ringmaster. I love being ringmaster - Enid got really good at that. Get some lateral distance going and that will lead to fast times with a dog that knows where they are going.

Ever watched a really good NADAC handler standing there using just a tilt of the head to send their dog to an obstacle 3 layers away? If you want to do gamblers at Masters level, you need distance and speed. Go for it - do NADAC! Or ASCA!
I can't FC Fiona. If I try, she crashes into me and I end up picking myself up off the floor. I can't get out of her way fast enough no matter how hard I try. So we've worked a lot on RCs. We have moving contacts because she falls off the equipment due to momentum if I try to stop her for a solid 2o2o (that's caused us some problems with the teeter recently but we're working through it). So instead of 2o2o we've shaped where she leaves the equipment rather than stopping her on it (except the teeter - she eases up for balance as it drops).

Thanks for the feedback Vivienne. The more I've talked to people about it the more I think we'll give it a try before jumping into the AKC ring.

(Also, it's nice to see you on here! You're missed. :))
 
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I can't FC Fiona. If I try, she crashes into me and I end up picking myself up off the floor. I can't get out of her way fast enough no matter how hard I try. So we've worked a lot on RCs. We have moving contacts because she falls off the equipment due to momentum if I try to stop her for a solid 2o2o (that's caused us some problems with the teeter recently but we're working through it). So instead of 2o2o we've shaped where she leaves the equipment rather than stopping her on it (except the teeter - she eases up for balance as it drops).

Thanks for the feedback Vivienne. The more I've talked to people about it the more I think we'll give it a try before jumping into the AKC ring.

(Also, it's nice to see you on here! You're missed. :))
Thanks.

But you probably can FC Fiona - you just don't have the ability to throw her onto an obstacle and race away to where you need to be to FC, yet... It certainly won't work all the time, but you would be amazed at how much you will gain with a 10ft or more send ability. Plus, you have to be confident she will do what you ask and once she commits you need to take off at full speed to get in position. Yes, there are a lot of AKC judges who forget about the stride needed for a big dog and they will space the obstacles close and wheel like a small dog ran it. You will learn to work out which judges to ignore (not enter their trials). I trust you have joined Yahoo DobeAgility Group. Periodic discussions of judges come up there.
 

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We did UKC very early and Bacchus was Banzai Bacchy at that point. I have worked at slowing him down so that we can both enjoy the run. He runs....I trudge. I very much understand the rationale behind not doing UKC due to the speed issue.

A story....

Back when we were doing UKC it was difficult because of Bacchus pretending to be a border collie. A number of other people at the trials would tell me to "let him loose" or "go with it". So, at a UKC trial I had one last run and really didn't need the Q. We had enough to title that day. I decided to let the others see the real Bacchus kamikaze the course. Outdoor trail on a slope and mole holes everywhere to make matters worse. Sitting at the far end of the course on the tailgate of his truck was a man a little older than me with the two top 10 BCs in UKC. We would see each other at almost every trial. At ringside I announced to the gathering of the others that I was going to turn him loose. Laughter, giggles and "it's about time" were some of the responses. Once I heard "go" I led out and yelled to Bacchus and at the same time took off as fast as I could. He passed me at the 2nd jump. All I could see was that brown butt patch. I did my very best to keep him on course but he was running like his head was on fire. At one point he had to do a sharp 180 and he was going so fast he fell down, rolled, popped up and never slowed down. He hit the pause table so hard it fell over. I don't think the tire jump would ever be the same. Finally we finished the course.....not together but I managed to get to the finish. Then we walked out of the ring......comments like "oh my gawd" and "now I know why" were mixed with laughter. My response was "That's Bacchus unleashed!!" I made my way back to the parking lot huffing and puffing and passed the truck where Don and his two borders were sitting. He quietly said to me "that boy's got speed" then grinned and shook his head.

Now when I run my guy and we move around the ring at a nice comfortable pace I am glad Bacchus has gotten to this point but I still sometimes think back to that day. I don't think I would have survived "Banzai Bacchus" and perhaps he wouldn't have either.
That is the funniest story. You know thats` why I teach run controled to A & T I need my body:D. A while back (early training for Atlas) I thought I could beat him out of the tunnel to do a front. NOT. I rolled. After that I thought more rear crosses for me with that boy. He runs controled pretty much for me now and I only let loose on a straight away heading for home.
Going to try some different things with Ms. Tamora in August just for the heck of it.
 

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You are so right!!!!!!!!!. some people are just lucky :D

And what about the guys--some of them are like 1 stride to our 3
Have you ever noticed how many of the people running the ring have a brace on a leg? I remember a lady called Joan from when I was back in Illinois. She had had back surgery and would run the ring with a walker!! Now that's dedication. :D
 

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joie de vivre
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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks.

But you probably can FC Fiona - you just don't have the ability to throw her onto an obstacle and race away to where you need to be to FC, yet... It certainly won't work all the time, but you would be amazed at how much you will gain with a 10ft or more send ability. Plus, you have to be confident she will do what you ask and once she commits you need to take off at full speed to get in position. Yes, there are a lot of AKC judges who forget about the stride needed for a big dog and they will space the obstacles close and wheel like a small dog ran it. You will learn to work out which judges to ignore (not enter their trials). I trust you have joined Yahoo DobeAgility Group. Periodic discussions of judges come up there.
Technically, we did a successful FC last week. They set up a course with some jumps that had to be threaded. I say "technically" because I don't know how much that FC counts since it was really Fiona who had to do all the turning and I just stayed out in front of her, but we were the only team in our novice class to have a perfect run on that course, including threading the jumps. :)


That is the funniest story. You know thats` why I teach run controled to A & T I need my body:D. A while back (early training for Atlas) I thought I could beat him out of the tunnel to do a front. NOT. I rolled. After that I thought more rear crosses for me with that boy. He runs controled pretty much for me now and I only let loose on a straight away heading for home.
Going to try some different things with Ms. Tamora in August just for the heck of it.
LOL!

I fell over Fiona trying to FC her coming out of the tunnel, too. The tunnel was positioned wrapping around one end of the DW and Sue (trainer) was yelling "Front cross! Front cross!" (they like to throw that stuff out at me just to make me try to do it), so I ran as hard as I could and instead of beating her there, we tied (i.e., collided) and I went head first over her. LOL I caught myself and she managed to run out from under me so I didn't crush her. When I looked up to pick myself up Fiona was play bowing and smacking the floor in front of me like, "Yay! We're playing!" She tried to turn it into rough housing and jumped on me. LOL

They're determined we're going to get some really tight FC's in eventually, so they keep pushing us.
 

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That is the funniest story. You know thats` why I teach run controled to A & T I need my body:D. A while back (early training for Atlas) I thought I could beat him out of the tunnel to do a front. NOT. I rolled. After that I thought more rear crosses for me with that boy. He runs controled pretty much for me now and I only let loose on a straight away heading for home.
Going to try some different things with Ms. Tamora in August just for the heck of it.
We when you are talking about running controlled, do you mean running collected due to tight turns and space concerns? As opposed to running extended when the course is easy for your dog to understand and run?
 
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Have you ever noticed how many of the people running the ring have a brace on a leg? I remember a lady called Joan from when I was back in Illinois. She had had back surgery and would run the ring with a walker!! Now that's dedication. :D
You are so right! I see people with knee/leg braces--back braces--my goodness I didn`t realize how dangerous this sport is?:D

Also have you seen the ones where the handlers fall down and get right up to complete the run (me included and it was at Nationals in Topeka) What a way for me to shine with my upcoming dog--Tamora. I was so messed up from that weekend I could only wear one pair of shoes (my foot was so swollen and I needed 2 hands to open any hotel doors with knobs (because of brusing) Did this stop me from competing--hek no--ran all days I was there. Now is that dedication or just plain crazy? I prefer to think of it as just plain fun:D
 

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We when you are talking about running controlled, do you mean running collected due to tight turns and space concerns? As opposed to running extended when the course is easy for your dog to understand and run?
I like collected, controled and extended when I ask for it. The first time I asked Atlas for speed in a trial he knocked bars. It was than that I knew he needed to learn how to be collected even if he is running straight or making turns etc. (kinda of like a dressage horse) (well not exactly but being able to do both)

Not sure if what I do is conventional or not. I just do want works for me and my dogs. I know a lot of people want that crazy speed, but than there is not the accuracy.
Also I am concerned about injuries, especially with a dog like Atlas who is a big boy.

Now in our MAD RUNs (runs that have a set course --you line up and go one after another fast. We can really fly there and I do because I have nothing on the line and it is good for the dogs and very motivational. I love the person who organizes them and invites me to come. They are great. The setting is usually in a soccer arena and the adjacent arenas has soccer going on. Lots of noise, people with kids watch. wonderful place for a dog to get used to everything.
 

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LOL!

I fell over Fiona trying to FC her coming out of the tunnel, too. The tunnel was positioned wrapping around one end of the DW and Sue (trainer) was yelling "Front cross! Front cross!" (they like to throw that stuff out at me just to make me try to do it), so I ran as hard as I could and instead of beating her there, we tied (i.e., collided) and I went head first over her. LOL I caught myself and she managed to run out from under me so I didn't crush her. When I looked up to pick myself up Fiona was play bowing and smacking the floor in front of me like, "Yay! We're playing!" She tried to turn it into rough housing and jumped on me. LOL

They're determined we're going to get some really tight FC's in eventually, so they keep pushing us.[/QUOTE]

Thats` what I had too. Tunnel next to A Frame and going under A Frame to the other side. I had send him in the tunnel and of course the A Frame was calling him and I had to hang back. I was suppose to beat him to the other side to send him to the correct jump. Well I felt him right on my butt and thats when I decicded to bail and roll. If not I would have been decked. Tamora is more respectful of my body, but green dog Atlas is like a run-a-way freight train that has no breaks.:D So now i just error on the side of safety for my body.:D
 

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here is my 2 cents on NADAC - When I started running Eva, my intention was to stay AKC. But my friends told me to get in some practice by going to a NADAC - you get 6 runs in per day.

Eva is like a bolt of lightning and I had no idea how NADAC worked - so off we go - here is my learning - most of the true NADAC people train for their courses. They are long, long courses - it would be the space of 2 AKC courses in 1. So- many, many feet in between jumps and contacts -

I start watching people run their dogs - they stand in the middle of the course and scream out commands - right! left! switch! - I could hear them laugh when we got up and I led out 2 jumps.

For me - too much ground for her to run like a wild woman - and I never was able to stay with her - so in the end it wasn't good practice for us, it actually encouraged her to pick her own obstacles.
 

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You are so right! I see people with knee/leg braces--back braces--my goodness I didn`t realize how dangerous this sport is?:D

Also have you seen the ones where the handlers fall down and get right up to complete the run (me included and it was at Nationals in Topeka) What a way for me to shine with my upcoming dog--Tamora. I was so messed up from that weekend I could only wear one pair of shoes (my foot was so swollen and I needed 2 hands to open any hotel doors with knobs (because of brusing) Did this stop me from competing--hek no--ran all days I was there. Now is that dedication or just plain crazy? I prefer to think of it as just plain fun:D


Hopefully Chootcher will come back and tell about her run/fall. I was quite impressed. :D
 
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