My Problem:

A-w-w...the poor girl. Not a very good beginning. Bless you for caring so much and taking such good care of her. I think what you're doing, loving her, training her, taking walks with her is all anyone can do. When she seeks out attention and is doing behaviors you don't like, the best way I've found, especially with Dobermans, is to distract, redirect to some behavior that you do like, an alternative. It can be a command (skill) which she can be praised for. The more you show her what you DO want, the less she'll be searching for approval, but going about it in the "wrong" way, as in doing the no no's. Just keep her busy and lots of exercise.

As far as the moping goes, I don't really know what to do about that. It seems strange that after all this time and after all you do with her, she is showing this. If you like, I'll p.m. your post to someone I know who really seems to understand this type of thing. She's sort of an expert on the way dogs think and rehabilitates abused dogs. She may have some ideas for you. Let me know.

This is what my friend wrote:

Tell me if this makes sense:

If this dog lived with the man for six months, and he was working and not spending time with her, could it be she is reliving kind of a "conditioned" sadness when he walks out the door? Only now, he doesn't come back, so the sadness lasts longer because the old ritual hasn't been completed.

Some people get their dogs all riled up and exicted before they walk out the door, rather than keep their comings and goings low-key. It's like they try to fill them up with "love", to last them through their hours alone.

It would be like you saying to Lyric "Are you ready?!", and then just turn and walk out the door with out him.

It sounds like this guy may have really indulged himself with the dog's love, but didn't put her needs at these formative years, very high on his list. He sure has no problem walking back into her life and gushing her up again, which just adds more to the old ritual.

She sounds like she is of a soft, sweet, and dependant personality type, too.

I may have some more thoughts, but this is what comes to mind right off the top.
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Here was my reply...haven't gotten an answer back yet:

That makes sense to me. During those early, formative months while her personality is ACTUALLY developing, she is conditioned day in and day out to create this mood that she gets into from being left alone. It may even be almost a partial disassociative state of sorts. She may be sad, but she may not be. It might be a protective state she gets herself into...kind of like she's made a habit of "shutting down" a little bit when he leaves. And like you said, if he makes a big fuss over her right before he leaves, it sends her into that mood because there has been emotion, conditioned, from the beginning... created by this one extreme to the other...excitement when he's there and all of a sudden, he goes without enough emotional nurishment the rest of the time.


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So, my thoughts...just to reiterate: The dog was conditioned.....or experienced a "learned helplessness." When the dog is moping around, are you making a fuss over her? Naturally you feel sorry for her, but a lot of attention and sympathy can further perpetuate this.

So, the idea is that when he comes over, he should not gush all over the dog and get her all excited. It should be a low key visit and when he leaves, he should just leave, not kiss and hug her good-bye. It's like getting her all excited and then...the let down. Keep comings and goings low key and don't make a lot of mushy stuff when she's displaying that mood. Try to convey that it's no big deal and you're not a bit worried. She'll feed off your mood too if you're feeling worried and sorry for her. That's how I interpret it anyhow. Good luck. I'll write if my friend thinks of something else.

Here's another little tidbit: (It's true that we often inadvertantly instill little problems in our dogs, thinking we're doing the right thing, but we don't look deep enough into how they interpret things....the way they think.) Frznbuns....glad it will help you too.

From my friend, a p.m. to me:

Inadvertant Disfunctional Conditioning: Creating an insecure state of mind through the unintentional repetition of a ritual or behavior, which reinforces or rewards it.

Hee-hee! I just made that up. A Debism?

Cesar would call it "Nurturing an unstable mind".

You mentioned the casual way you leave. I don't know if you realise some of the things that you comunicate to your dogs without knowing it. Part of this is what I call the "tude". You have a natural demeanor around dogs, even though you may think you're a little "hyper" sometimes. They learn the difference between a personality trait, and who you really are, when they live with you.

You can send what I wrote to you friend, and also send her what you wrote after I responded. Good stuff in there!

Deb


Here's what she meant by what I said...how I leave: I know, when I leave, I say to the dogs, "bye, I'll be back" in a boring voice while I walk out the door. (like they know what all those words mean.) LOL.

When I come home, I don't completely ignore them, but I walk past them, set my groceries down, walk through the room, say, "hi dogs." I might put a couple things away. And after they're calmer, used to me being home, then I bend down and give them a real greeting. And when I leave, I just basically leave without any fanfare. That seems to help the dogs cope with my being gone better. It's matter of fact. It's going to happen and there is no big emotional storm going on while I'm coming or going. Hope that helps.

Quote:
When I come home, I don't completely ignore them, but I walk past them, set my groceries down, walk through the room, say, "hi dogs." I might put a couple things away. And after they're calmer, used to me being home, then I bend down and give them a real greeting. And when I leave, I just basically leave without any fanfare.

That's basically what I do, too, and I don't have any problems with leaving my dogs home when I'm gone. They are not crated, and the two dobes are home with a Pom, and 2 rat terriers, and everyone gets along great. They are all happy to see me when I come home, but like you, I do a couple of little non-dog things first, after calmly greeting them, and then proceed to giving pets, hugs, body rubs, whatever each individual dog enjoys as their own personal greeting!
The addvice from you and your friend certainly makes sense. Of course, that's exactly what he 'conditioned' Sasha to do! She probably relates seeing him again to the way it used to be when she was a puppy...that's the routine she lived for the first 6 months of her life. I'm thinking that when he comes over this time, I'll ask him to help me to help HER by not making a big fuss over her. Not that I dont want him to have anything at all to do with her, its not a 'jealous dad' thing, y'know? But when he lets me know that he will be leaving, that's when I'll take Sasha out for a fun walk, maybe she will learn to associate his leaving with something a little more pleasurable than just lying on the couch, staring at the door to see if he comes back.
Thanks you guys. I knew someone out there had some good advice. My family's advice was more in the line of "tell him to get the hell out of your house!"