More questions on dog food

Human grade means they purchase food that is fit for human consumption to make their kibble. I'm not sure how we would know if this is true, other then hoping the company really values their reputation and cares about the dogs they are feeding. I don't think there would be anyway to check this out, the government barely cares what we are eating....let alone our dogs.

Dogs don't need grains to live and thrive. Think of it this way....where would a wolf or coyote get grain from? It is a cheaper way to make dog food. I have just switched my Petey to RAW...this way I know exactly what is in the food he is eating. My last two dogs (Weimaraners) got food that had no wheat or corn, but it did have rice, it was also not great food, it was middle quality. I lost both dogs at young ages in the last 6 months, one to cancer and one to epilepsy. I regret not feeding them both better. I'm hopeful that by feeding Petey the best food I can afford that just maybe he won't die too young like my other boys.

Carol

CoAl-s-Mom said:

In researching different dog foods, some companies tout human grade ingredients. What exactly does that mean? How do we know it's true?

About grains. I noticed some are totally grain free. What are, if any, benefits to that?

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Here is my take on this topic.

First of all there is no law pertaining to a company that wants to label their food human grade ingredients. I think what that means is basically there is no set criteria that the pet food company has to follow.

The FDA inspects all meat and grains, additivites etc. both for human consumption and pet consumption. In regards to meat, livestock is inspected before and after slaughter. There is also sanitary standards and also ongoing inspections. So on the surface that would mean ALL meat is basically human grade because it has passed inspection. Where I believe it gets a little grey is an inspector can look at all stomach contents, beaks, feet, fur (meat by-products) and pass this for pet food because it meets all the standards listed above. Would you feed this to humans?? Of course not but technically it has passed through the FDA. So when companies say they use human grade ingredients they should be using the actual meat and nothing else.
I think just chosing a food based on this is not necessarily enough. My list would/does include the following:
Company manufactures just for the petfood industry. (No other interest besides pets)
Co. researches and tests their food and has certified vets on staff.
I prefer a company that has been in business a long time and has a proven track record.
They do not spend large amounts of money on advertising.
Certified organic where possible (this would have eliminated the recent deaths of many cats and dogs)
Made in small batches at low temperatures.
Are willing to disclose the percentage of meat in their petfood.
Can tour their facility.
That's what I consider important, that's not to say I get all of the above but I would try and come close to that.

In regards to grain free, I don't think their has been ton's of research out there as of yet. I do think on the surface it seems like a good idea. Especially if you don't have the time to feed homemade/raw. A lot of dog food out there has a high percentage of grain and I don't think that is necessarily good for your dog based on the fact that they are pretty much for the most part carnivores. I think these grain free foods can solve many coat, skin, and energy issues. But I also think for the average couch potato dog out there these foods are not necessarily a good choice or at the very least owners have to watch for weight gain.

Well that is my 2 cents, hope it has helped. I find the whole petfood industry in general a bit of a mystery. Many companies have very good marketing plans/stratagies and like anything else you have to do your homework. This sometimes can take months, that's why I will probably feed ******* a homemade diet in the end. This way I at least know what she is exactly eating.

CoAl-s-Mom said:

About grains. I noticed some are totally grain free. What are, if any, benefits to that?

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CoAl-s-Mom,

Regarding the grain free business. Dogs are actually much closer to an omnivore (like pigs and people) than they are to the obligate carnivores--cats.

Someone posed the question of where would wild canids get grain? Boy I can answer that one--coyotes have adapted quite well to living around people so that many suburbs which border farmland have a population of coyotes. Most farm areas have them.

I used track on a farm owned by one of my tracking partners and if I was at the farm early laying tracks I often saw the coyotes. I watched them pull down stalks from the outer rows of corn in the corn patch to get ripe ears to eat. This particular farm was primarily orchard and during cherry season all of the coyote poop was filled with cherry pits (later in the summer when blackberries were ripe it contained all the little blackberry seeds.

Even though field rats, field mice and rabbits constitute the mainstay of a coyotes food they sure did eat enough other things to convince me that canids--can and do very well with grain (as well as vegetables and fruit) in their diets.

I also know from experience with dogs who went with me to feed the horses when I still lived at home that they (the dogs) were sorely disappointed if I didn't toss them at least one handful of oats when I was graining as well as feeding hay.

Dogs have been living on the leftovers from people for a long time--if they were ever obligate carnivores they sure aren't any more. In fact from what I've read it would seem that most of the canids are not.

micdobe said:

I don't think dogs can *need* corn because corn is a New World plant, like potatoes, so what did the wolves and dogs in the Old World eat before Europe discovered the New World?

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I don't think dogs (or coyotes) "need" corn--I've also seen coyotes in eastern Washington state do the same thing in winter wheat fields (pull down ripe grain stalks to eat) and in barley fields.

But coyotes are definitely wild canids and they definitely voluntarily eat grain.

I think probably the necessary amino acids for all canids (dogs or wild ones) can be obtained from a variety of sources.

And as far as corn being an allergin--yeah, some dogs are allergic to it--and a lot of dogs aren't at all. I've never actually had a dog with a corn allergy in any of the dogs I've had in the last 50 years but I sure did have a dog who was wildly allergic to egg whites. I used to have a great source for check eggs when I lived in Sacramento and would boil a dozen or so at a time and the dogs (two at the time) got one in the morning and one at night--I fed them whole to the puppy but the older dog broke out into gigantic hives and I figured out by trial and error that if I peeled his and gave him just the yoke he didn't get hives. So the young dog lucked out and got all of the whites.

You make good points, Okie. You really do have to dig deep to ferret out some truths they'd rather you didn't know. Speaking only about the premium foods, I got increasingly irritated by companies changing their ingredients a little at a time and not disclosing it (or glossing over it). After a while you've got a product that substantially differs from what you started with but with the same packaging and no indication to the consumer of the change. You practically have to go over the ingredients with a magnifying glass and a scorecard to keep track of changes. Natural Balance has done it recently and so has Solid Gold, just to name two.

And speaking of Solid Gold, the plant facilities are also critically important (to me). How many people remember the Diamond Foods aflotoxin poisonings last year? The mold got into their kiibble directly at the manufacturing plant in Gaston, SC and killed a number of dogs. The food manufactured there was shipped to 23 countries...who knows how many dogs were affected in total? Now Solid Gold has started using that exact same plant to process it's food. They certainly have not made that information publicly known and by the time it is published somewhere like the WDJ, consumers will have been eating that food for (maybe) a year. We pay premium prices for their foods because of their claims of superiority, but at the end of the day how can we really be sure we're really getting a premium product? What if the "human grade ingredients" are prepared in 'less than human-grade' facilities or manner? What info are they NOT required to give us? In many regards, we have to take it on faith based on a company's reputation. Faith is blind, but I am not. Failure to disclose small ingredient changes gets the company red-flagged for caution in my eyes; and failure to disclose what I consider highly relevant info gets them booted off my buy list permanently. So I guess I'd say I don't find the industry a mystery so much as I find it increasingly misleading, and I'm very disappointed.