Misunderstanding the dobes :(

1727 Views 28 Replies 15 Participants Last post by hbwright, Jul 21, 2007

Amuro

Discussion Starter · Jul 17, 2007

I was just reading the biting dogs article on the DPCA site and it got me thinking. The misinformed majority of the population all conclude that even the gentlest of dobes are vicious creatures out to maim them, thanks to their roles in movies and the media. I did a quick search about dog bites in North America and came across this interesting PDF file. It is a listing of recorded dog bites from 1982-2006, by breed. Also including the severity of the attack. You'll need Adobe Reader to read it, either click to view or right click and save:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf

Here's an excerpt of some numbers:

Akita - 48
Boxer - 31
Doberman - 11
German Shepherd - 63
Labrador Retriever - 26
Pit Bull Terrier - 1110

I felt it was good to read, I had heard rumours that cocker spaniels and dalmations would be high on the number of bites list, because of their boost in popularity from movies (and the bad breeding ethics that followed), but they remained fairly low. On the flip side, while not the lowest, dobermans aren't as high up on the list as the majority people would think.

Of course, the higher the breed population, the more chances of biting incidents. Also, I'm sure not every single incident in North America was recorded. There's a lot more studies on this site here, if you're into a good read:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

One more thing: regardless of which breeds were more susceptible to biting, each case is different and it all depends on the individual. Please don't stereotype against the breeds that placed higher than the dobes. That'd be fairly hypocritical now, wouldn't it?

So next time someone calls your baby a threat to society, point them in the right direction! :biggthump

Reactions: 2

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greenkouki

· #2 · Jul 17, 2007 (Edited)

that was a very interesting find thanks!

"Individual dog owners are also getting clobbered, either with
liability premiums so high that no one can afford to keep pit bulls or
Rottweilers, or by inability to find an insurer willing to cover anyone who
has such a dog--or any other dog breed with a bad reputation, whether or
not the reputation is deserved. (Compare attacks by pit bulls with attacks
by Dobermans on the chart above.) This in turn means more pit bulls,
Rottweilers, et al being surrendered to shelters, when their people cannot
Page 7 of 7
find rental accommodations or even buy a house because of their inability to
obtain liability insurance."

MaryAndDobes

· #3 · Jul 17, 2007

Amuro said:
Also, I'm sure not every single incident in North America was recorded.

No, of course not. Not to mention the fact that many people misidentify breeds or guess with no credible knowledge so statistics are always going to be skewed. I also would suspect that some would outright lie about the breed. I could get bit by a Doberman but not want to cast a bad light on them and say I got bit by a Lab, for eg.

Fitzmar Dobermans

· #4 · Jul 17, 2007

Dog bites/attacks is always interesting stuff IMHO - having this breed for 14 years (with no bites at all thank you very much), I've educated myself about it some.

I've done some reading on dog bites in the past - recommended reading includes:

Fatal Dog attacks: The stories behind the statistics by Karen Delise

Dogs Bite: but balloons and slippers are more dangerous by Janis Bradley

I think that the website you were on is an interesting one and I've read it before - however, they are in the business of skewing the statistics to their favor.......... it is how they make their money.

I found this interesting on their website:

Cause of injury Emergency room incidents annually
Baseball/softball 404,364
Dog bites 333,687
Playground accidents 268,810
All-terrain vehicles, mopeds, etc. 125,136
Volleyball 97,523
Inline skating 75,994
Horseback riding 71,162
Baby walkers 28,000
Skateboards 25,486

It would be interesting to know the severity of the dog bites compared to say injuries from baby walkers or all terrain vehicles. I would be willing to bet that it is low. I'm not negating the seriousness of a dog bite, but IMHO people tend to freak out about them because of the whole "germ" thingie with a dog bite.... while kids wipe out on skateboards all the time......... they don't go to the hospital for it unless it is serious. Also, think about how many dogs there are compared to ATV's - now look at the statistics and realize how many injuries there are. Also, how many people ride horses vs how many people have or are around a dog............... puts it in perspective huh.

And Geez!! BASEBALL is WAY too dangerous - LOL! I think we should all sue if our kids get injured playing a sport.

I guess my point is that there are literally MILLIONS of dogs in this country that NEVER bite - I personally find that almost amazing considering how stupid people can be around them. Dogs are amazingly adaptable creatures - I'm more surprised that we don't have more bites. When I was a kid, my dog (a Dalamatian) bit me a couple of times........... my parents attitude was "what did you do to the dog?" I learned to treat the dog right and she didn't bite me anymore

. That was the attitude of most people - dogs ran loose, and you learned not to get bit. I'm not saying it was right, but no one went running to a dog bite lawyer to see how much money they could get for what was usually their own stupidity.

As you can see, I get a little crazed on this subject.

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greenkouki

· #5 · Jul 17, 2007

MaryAndDobes said:
No, of course not. Not to mention the fact that many people misidentify breeds or guess with no credible knowledge so statistics are always going to be skewed. I also would suspect that some would outright lie about the breed. I could get bit by a Doberman but not want to cast a bad light on them and say I got bit by a Lab, for eg.

or on the flip side, get bitten by a black lab that was mistaken for a dobe. Although the report wasn't that well constructed and a tad bias I think it shows the general trends. I wish someone would figure out a way to classify these happenings and future cases in a more thurough manner.

Amuro

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 17, 2007

MaryAndDobes said:
No, of course not. Not to mention the fact that many people misidentify breeds or guess with no credible knowledge so statistics are always going to be skewed. I also would suspect that some would outright lie about the breed. I could get bit by a Doberman but not want to cast a bad light on them and say I got bit by a Lab, for eg.

Of course, that's very understandable. Even knowing what I know, I still have trouble telling some similar breeds apart. I wouldn't expect the public to have much knowledge beyond the popular breeds.

Amuro

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 17, 2007

velmadobe said:
Also, think about how many dogs there are compared to ATV's - now look at the statistics and realize how many injuries there are. Also, how many people ride horses vs how many people have or are around a dog............... puts it in perspective huh.

I agree, I tried to mention the same thing about the difference in the breeds. Of course there will be more dog bites from, say, German Shepherds than dobermans because there are more of them.

I wish they could've also made a ratio or percentage of breed population to number of bite incidents.

greenkouki

· #8 · Jul 17, 2007

Amuro said:
I agree, I tried to mention the same thing about the difference in the breeds. Of course there will be more dog bites from, say, German Shepherds than dobermans because there are more of them.

I wish they could've also made a ratio or percentage of breed population to number of bite incidents.

# of incidents/ # akc registrations would give you a really rough estimate. Of course this would not be very accurate with certain breeds; some breeds are more accounted for than others. Not to mention with non akc recognized breeds it's almost impossible to determine a population. Pit bull type dogs are probably what is sparking the most controversy, and are the most difficult to account for.

Beanie

· #9 · Jul 17, 2007

Pit bull type dogs are probably what is sparking the most controversy, and are the most difficult to account for.

Yes, I agree with you on that. What I'd like to see is what they have listed as Pit Bull broken down. There is no doubt that the Bull Terrier is lumped in with that group even though BT's are the most gentle of the Pit Bull type. And before someone tries to prove me wrong about that, there's a reason that Ontario, Canada is outlawing Pit Bulls but some cities are still allowing Bull Terriers.

Yes, I'm partial because I have an awesome BT. :biggrin55

hbwright

· #10 · Jul 17, 2007

Question:
"Doberman: One miniature pinscher apparently joined two pit bull terriers in
attacking a child."

Is the Min. Pin. lumped in with the dobermans? I'm not seeing how this is relavent and why this is listed under the doberman. It makes me wonder how many of the "doberman" bites are from min. pins.

Don't get me wrong, I have a neice min. pin. and she is a love but I've known quite a few more that I don't let my kids play with, they have a tendency to be vicious. (Sorry, but it is my personal experience with them and I don't let my kids near them unless I know them well first.)

I also have to wonder how many are mis-labeled. Like mentioned before there are breed ignorant people out there and it wouldn't surprise me if somebody was bitten by a lab and said it was a "vicious doberman pinscher" because it was black.

I'm keeping this saved though, very interesting information and the whole site is an interesting read.

sorthund

· #11 · Jul 17, 2007

Don't forget that bites from small dogs most often don't get reported. Granted they usually don't cause as much damage - however a dog bite is a dog bite, imo.

Fitzmar Dobermans

· #12 · Jul 17, 2007

sorthund said:
Don't forget that bites from small dogs most often don't get reported. Granted they usually don't cause as much damage - however a dog bite is a dog bite, imo.

That is sooooo true! How often do you see people laughing over a toy dog being absolutly nasty - there was just a clip on the comcast videos of a chi I think last week - it was so nasty - I did not think that it was the least bit funny. All I could think was that if my dog acted that way, I would put her to sleep.

hbwright

· #13 · Jul 17, 2007

My neighborhood is full of them. My kids have been bit twice. I did report one of them to the AC and the other was my neighbor and I told her I wanted proof of vaccination and for her to enroll her dog in obedience and I wouldn't report it. Her reply was that "that's a little silly" but that was her options. She's since moved away. She also used to laugh at it until she saw the blood on my son's leg and she was pretty concerned for the first time since we knew them for two years.

bean

· #14 · Jul 17, 2007

Don't get me started on obnoxious little dogs and owners who think aggressive behavior is "cute." Grrrrr...... It boils my blood. I've commented on You Tube "funny/cute" snarly dog videos, and I clench my teeth at America's Funniest (and my darling hubby has to say "I know honey, it's not funny." LOL

I have seen photos of dogs who have bitten that were clearly mutts - but labeled as pit bulls. I also wonder about reporting, mis-labeling, and categorizing. The fact that a min-pin was in the doberman category says something in itself.

This is a really interesting site, though. I see the limitations but think it's gotta be nearly impossible to have a fully accurate list. There are a lot of people who know nothing about dogs, even dog owners. People have asked if Henneh is a purebred GSD and there is just absolutely no question about it... even to someone just barely familiar with the breed.

dobes4me

· #15 · Jul 17, 2007

velmadobe said:
How often do you see people laughing over a toy dog being absolutly nasty

So true! I was watching an episode of The Dog Whisperer where he was mentioning that people think it's "cute" when small dogs act that way. Yet, when they provoke a larger dog into doing something, then it's not so cute anymore. And who gets blamed for it? Yep, the larger dog!

lanabana

· #16 · Jul 17, 2007 (Edited)

I hate, hate, hate that almost every dog in L.A. shelter's is labeled a "pitbull". Is there even really a breed called a pitbull by the AKC? I was reading Cesar Milan's book for the 3rd time so that I could try and get a grip on being a pack leader again and I think he mentioned that the AKC didn't even recognize the pitbull as a breed (if I didn't read wrong). There is an American Staffordshire Terrier, a Bull Terrier, a Staffordshire Terrier...etc. As the proud owner of two "pitbull" - lol - mixes that I rescued from L.A. Shelters, my blood boils over this generalization because I see more and more cities banning these dogs. Everything over here with a square head and broad chest is called a "pitbull"......half the time these dogs are probably mixed with numerous breeds of dogs, but as soon as do anything bad it becomes "because they are a pitbull". What about chihuahua's that bite, pomeranians that bite....is it because they bite below the ankles that it is not considered a dog bite? I swear, that if my Doberman bit or my Labrador retriever,gsd, "pitbull" bit, they would be considered vicious dogs....ok, I am rambling, but I really love the dogs I have. I get so angry that it took me weeks to find Homeowners Insurance that would accept me (actually, they just didn't ask if I had dogs) and that I have to endure looks on people's faces when I tell them that I have a Doberman and two "pitbull" mixes. Even my doctor asked me why I would have vicious dogs....my answer was lengthy....

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dobes4me

· #17 · Jul 17, 2007

lanabana said:
Is there even really a breed called a pitbull by the AKC?

The American Pitbull Terrier is a registered breed of the UKC, whereas the American Staffordshire Terrier is registered with the AKC. I'm no expert on the difference between the two, but my understanding is that there is really no distinction between the two except that the APBT is usually more from working lines whereas the AmStaff is from show lines. Again, I'm no expert, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

bean

· #18 · Jul 18, 2007

I think the Staffies are smaller... and tend to be less dog-aggressive, but am not positive. Am pretty sure they're smaller though. ?

dobes4me

· #19 · Jul 18, 2007

bean said:
I think the Staffies are smaller... and tend to be less dog-aggressive, but am not positive. Am pretty sure they're smaller though. ?

I know there's the Staffordshire Bull Terrier that's smaller (according to AKC, 14-16 inches tall and weighs 24-38 lbs.) The AKC lists the AmStaff standard as 17-19 inches tall (no weight standards given). Not sure about the height of the APBT. The UKC standard lists the weight as 30-60 lbs.

MeganUK

· #20 · Jul 19, 2007

Amuro, i agree...i think a ratio would be better. Also, a lot of people think any short haired dog with a big head is a "pit bull". i am asked very often if my dog(rhodesian ridgeback) is a pit bull. So, i doubt that all those attacks were american pit bull terriers. Honestly, i've never even seen/heard of a mean doberman, but i know that they're on all the "bad dog lists"

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