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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wondering, why d'you suppose Dobermans aren't used in the Military anymore? Or are they? Are GSDs just a better breed? I don't like GSDs myself but it seems like they are used more than Dobes in almost every field.
 

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I read somewhere can't recall that it may have to do with climate. extreme heat and cold and how dobies do not tolerate those conditions. I can also be totally wrong on this.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That does make sense, if it's true. Seems like GSDs with their big fluffy coats wouldn't take to extreme heat all that well either, though?
 

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A double coat actually protects a dog better in cold and heat. Shaving a double coated dog does nothing to keep the dog cool, it just makes the human feel better. Dogs don't sweat like we do. A single coated breed such as the Doberman is more at risk in the heat and cold because they have no guard hairs to shield the sun's rays and no undercoat to keep them insulated in winter. Double Coated breeds blow out their undercoat twice a year.

Therefore the GSD can handle the elements a lot better than the Doberman.
 

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They really don't use GSD's anymore either...

A lot of military bases (from my expirence) use Belgian Malinios...

And like Zelda said double coat helps them keep cool and warm :)
 

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I was just wondering, why d'you suppose Dobermans aren't used in the Military anymore? Or are they? Are GSDs just a better breed? I don't like GSDs myself but it seems like they are used more than Dobes in almost every field.
They use GSD's and malinois because they are good solid working dogs, and it is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to find good solid working GSD's and malinois than to find even 1 good solid working dobermann - that won't drop dead at 4 years old cause it heart expires. One that you don't have to coddle and be its cheerleader to get it to work. In fact Labs and goldens are also solid working military dogs.

It has very little to do with their coat and temp extremes and more to do with the quality of working dogs, and their ease of management, handling and purchase.

But yes the GSD and malinois are much better working dogs. Way easier to find good ones, at better prices.
 

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Jonesy's Mom is correct. Malinios are the majority breed used, with a smaller percentage of Anatolian Shepherds and GSDs. Military working dogs have to be cross-functional (i.e. bomb dog and attack dog, or another such combo), adaptable to climates ranging from the arctic (Fort Wainwright for example) to the tropical (Andersen Air Base in Guam), capable of being completely and utterly obedient in ANY situation (such as attached to a SpecOps unit in Honduras hunting drug lords or running through a hail of bullets and mortar fire in the Middle East), and be healthy enough to have a lifespan that makes them worthwhile to train (dogs are expected to be capable of work until at least 10). Some dogs even have to be capable of going downrange with paratroopers, regardless of whether it's a land or water jump (a large, heavy dog would be a detriment) . Dobermans just don't have the full package that the military demands of MWDs. That said, they were invaluable in WWII.
 

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these are the dogs i've seen used, in order of what i see the most.
1.GSD
2.malinois
3.Springers
4.Labs
5.Dutch shepherds
6.cockers
7.Jack russells
8.Goldens
9. and a pit bull mix? not sure where they got him but whatever works
 

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Good working mals are a dime a dozen so very easy to obtain.

Back in the 70's I asked a New York City K9 officer why they didn't use dobermans in New York. He told me first, they couldn't take the cold weather(he mentioned something about them sitting and shivering in the subway) and second that when they would attack a perp, they tended to slash instead of hold on. He said it didn't look too good when you had to carry the perps to the hospital to get them stitched up before you could take them in to the precinct. He also said they didn't change handlers as easy as the GSD.

This was at the National Police K9 Canine Trials in Nashville.

By the way it was a bunch of fun to watch the dogs work. Anyone who can should see it.

2011 United States Police Canine Association National K-9 Trials
 

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and belgian tervuren. are used about the same as D. sheps for attack work....also in the states they use labs more then springers for detection work but from what I see thats just in the states. most countries here use springers for detection work.
 

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My first dog trainer who owned a superb Dobe told me it had to do with the bite that Dobes leave vs the GSD (someone else mentioned this above). GSD is a "clean" bite, Doberman is a ragged bite, more difficult to treat the perp!

A police trainer told me he used a Malinois because of its small size, he could hoist it above his head into a window to check out a house.
 

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and belgian tervuren. are used about the same as D. sheps for attack work....also in the states they use labs more then springers for detection work but from what I see thats just in the states. most countries here use springers for detection work.
I just have to ask you this:) Do you watch South Park? Is that where you got your cat's name?:):):)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So:
1: Weather resistance
2: GSD/Mals are a better breed
3: Bite style

Makes sense to me :) I hear that Dobes are used for SAR dogs plenty though, and that's fine by me... I'm training mine for that.
 

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So:
1: Weather resistance
2: GSD/Mals are a better breed
3: Bite style

Makes sense to me :) I hear that Dobes are used for SAR dogs plenty though, and that's fine by me... I'm training mine for that.
Several years ago, when I was very involved in SchH training several members of our club visited the Army's dog breeding program in Maryland. Then the program's concentration was on the German Shepherd; they were trying to eleminate HD, and improve the % of dogs capable of being military work dogs. The GSD was chosen (then) not because it was the better breed at all things, but because German Shepherds were good at a lot of different jobs.

There are several dedicated kennels producing Dobermanns that can compete with the best German Shepherds on the working sport field, so it is not fair to say (as a general statement) that Shepherds are a better working breed. There are just more of them in competition. Dobermanns will probably never be a military working breed again, but Germany used them on all fronts in WWII, and they did the job for Marines in the pacific island warfare.

Dobermanns can be be taught to bite and hold; that will negate the bite, rebite tendency.
 

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And

They use GSD's and malinois because they are good solid working dogs, and it is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to find good solid working GSD's and malinois than to find even 1 good solid working dobermann - that won't drop dead at 4 years old cause it heart expires. One that you don't have to coddle and be its cheerleader to get it to work. In fact Labs and goldens are also solid working military dogs.

It has very little to do with their coat and temp extremes and more to do with the quality of working dogs, and their ease of management, handling and purchase.

But yes the GSD and malinois are much better working dogs. Way easier to find good ones, at better prices.
They make much better kennel dogs as well. Just chuck them away and take them out to work at your will.
 

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GSD and Malinois aren't necessarily better breeds than the Doberman, there are just pros and cons to each. Personally, the Doberman, GSD, Dutch Shepherd, Belgian Malinois, border collie, and American pit bull terrier rank among the most impressive breeds to me as far as working ability, eagerness to please, loyalty, and versatility/utility go. These are the cream of the crop as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck in your training endeavors :)
 

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Curious

They use GSD's and malinois because they are good solid working dogs, and it is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to find good solid working GSD's and malinois than to find even 1 good solid working dobermann - that won't drop dead at 4 years old cause it heart expires. One that you don't have to coddle and be its cheerleader to get it to work. In fact Labs and goldens are also solid working military dogs.

It has very little to do with their coat and temp extremes and more to do with the quality of working dogs, and their ease of management, handling and purchase.

But yes the GSD and malinois are much better working dogs. Way easier to find good ones, at better prices.
Having read your negative opinions about the Doberman breed for years, can you enlighten me as to what you LIKE about the breed and why you own them?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
GSD and Malinois aren't necessarily better breeds than the Doberman, there are just pros and cons to each. Personally, the Doberman, GSD, Dutch Shepherd, Belgian Malinois, border collie, and American pit bull terrier rank among the most impressive breeds to me as far as working ability, eagerness to please, loyalty, and versatility/utility go. These are the cream of the crop as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck in your training endeavors :)
I have to agree, I have never really been a fan of GSDs but I have to admit that they are a hardworking breed and fit in the rest of that list. I really agree with the APBT being an APBT person myself. :) And thank you!
 

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As was mentioned on here the bite style of the doberman is not typically bite and hold. They slash, as one person said, and multiple bite. This is more of a mauling style then grabbing and dragging to the ground a perp. Yes, both are effective, but what suits your needs more? You have to spend a bit more time training a long bite with a dobe.

Also, as someone eluded to, the dobe is a "Velcro dog." They know their people and are protectors of that person. They bond with their person/people. They don't transfer to a new owner very quickly.

I have also been told by a few police and military handlers, that the doberman sometimes is too smart for the job. When I asked what that meant, it was explained that if a perp gets into a car and starts driving away, you can sick the GSD or mal after the car. They will chase it until they can't anymore. The dobe will start after it, but if it knows it won't catch it, will turn around and come back to you to protect you. It won't blindly follow erratic orders. They are a thinking breed. How true that is, though, I couldn't say. I have seen my boy look at me sometimes when I have tried to get him to do something totally off the wall just to see if he will do it as if to say, "Are you freaking kidding me? You want me to do what?"
 
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