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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is a video my wife took today, of Matrix and I working on the blind search, adding the second blind into the picture. We did all of this as an obedience exercise, not utilizing a decoy. I did this to make his turns tight and his focus on me during the exercise.
I also started out the video showing how I teach the front, I hold the toy directly at my midsection making him come in tight and bumping it with his nose before rewarding him with it.

Let me know what you guys think.

Matrix learning two blind search without a decoy - YouTube
 

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Great video,

I have taught alot of the bark and hold behaviors with my dog through tug sessions with no helper.

I am not nearly as close to your level as a trainer neither is my dog comparable to yours. Your dog looked great through all the exercises. I have watched it a few times and have to say Thanks!
 

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Looking really good!

I like the nose bump exercise. I'll have to start that with my dog.. She's not getting nearly as close as she should be.
 

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As Dale has showed doing it with a tug an no helper can be a huge help. We also utilize a touch pad with the dog to send them in the Revier command. It also is a huge help in any send away. My mentors dog is bad about getting dirty with the helper and the touch pad has helped tremendously in keeping him where he needs to be. It is also a huge help in doing Schutzhund turns.
 

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Loved it! Great video. I use the nose bump also, except that I make him bump me (at about belly button level) before he gets the treat. It has worked very well in getting him to come in close.
 

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I really loved the video! I just started doing the tug mid stomach with a nose bump about a week ago. I wasnt sure if that was a good idea or not. If anything its a pretty good workout for my stomach. LOL Thanks so much for sharing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I really loved the video! I just started doing the tug mid stomach with a nose bump about a week ago. I wasnt sure if that was a good idea or not. If anything its a pretty good workout for my stomach. LOL Thanks so much for sharing!
I actually started out teaching the front position with food, using the same technique and then moving it to my mouth to create the looking at my face, I would then spit the food directly down my front, so that he would have to be basically touching me in order to catch it, once that was solid, I moved to the toy as reward to teach him to come in even closer, and this really helps on the fronts, and on the dumbell retrieves as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As Dale has showed doing it with a tug an no helper can be a huge help. We also utilize a touch pad with the dog to send them in the Revier command. It also is a huge help in any send away. My mentors dog is bad about getting dirty with the helper and the touch pad has helped tremendously in keeping him where he needs to be. It is also a huge help in doing Schutzhund turns.
Any of the exercises taught with obedience are the best way to go in my opinion. After all, Obedience is the foundation for all of our work in the sport.
so if you teach the exercises through obedience and then introduce the drive work, you get really nice looking work in my opinion.
 

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Excellent work Dale! Thanks for sharing the video. :)
 

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Thank you for posting this!

I think this is an excellent way to get nice fronts. Also utilizes the ever popular "dober-poke"...very resourceful. ;)

I have been wanting to work on getting a closer front with Hans. My trainer also told me I should start teaching Hans the blind search now, as an obedience exercise. I really like how you do your searches, Matrix always ran in front, instead of behind you. He also actually came to you when you gave the "here" command and went out on the "revier" instead of working on his own and going wide. I don't see that often!

Its nice to see videos of dobes working...there is only one other dobe at my club and she is a little behind Hans and I. I see so many similarities with the way Hans works. Hans loves to jump up and bump me in the face after I release him...I see Matrix does that too!
 

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I actually started out teaching the front position with food, using the same technique and then moving it to my mouth to create the looking at my face, I would then spit the food directly down my front, so that he would have to be basically touching me in order to catch it, once that was solid, I moved to the toy as reward to teach him to come in even closer, and this really helps on the fronts, and on the dumbell retrieves as well.
I tried spitting the food downward. But I am a terrible shot! LOL I was teaching Kyrah to turn and look on the ground. Guess I should have stuck to spitting when they kept telling me girls dont spit! :roflmao:
 

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Well, Dale...you asked...There are many ways to skin a cat. It all depends on what you want. We take the opposite approach than what is offered up. While there is certainly a very strong obedience component, we don't teach the blind search solely as an obedience exercise because we want an extremely powerful dog with offensive fight drive in the bark and hold in the blind.

Some people go as far as having a ball machine in the decoy blind. While the end picture of the dog may be technically perfect, you are rarely going to find extremely strong and intense guarding with dogs that are trained that way. Sure under the majority of judges it is not going to matter, but if you get an extremely good judge that can really read dogs you could be setting yourself up to lose points. Personally I would rather lose a point or two for the dog being technically incorrect rather than lose points for lack of power.

Dogs that are trained with the decoy as the primary focus just bring a different level of fight in the end picture. When getting at the helper is foremost in the dog's mind you can introduce more and more obedience into the exercise. When done correctly, this produces even more power into the work because prey drive + conflict= power. This approach also brings the drives into balance. When the exercise is taught as solely a prey exercise, then you usually start to see wide slalom course blind searches. Under a decent judge this equals point loss. If you get the bite work first and then introduce the handler demanding obedience (but not through compulsion) then you introduce conflict into the work. You will then see more power. If done correctly it is a dramatic difference you would see.

I liked the returning to the handler after the initial blind search. If you make them come to a complete front position before sending them onto a decoy then you would really start to see very tight blind searches, more obedience during the protection routine and more power as they take the frustration, at being thwarted in their search into the helper. Of course you would have to have a secure front position to accomplish this. Then the handler becomes even more of the focus. This is especially true if the dog does not know when he starts to return to the handler if he is going to be called to the front position or sent through to the next blind. They start to return to the handler quicker because they begin to see that as the conduit to the helper. This is a dog who is much less likely to flip the bird to the handler in a trial.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, Dale...you asked...There are many ways to skin a cat. It all depends on what you want. We take the opposite approach than what is offered up. While there is certainly a very strong obedience component, we don't teach the blind search solely as an obedience exercise because we want an extremely powerful dog with offensive fight drive in the bark and hold in the blind.

Some people go as far as having a ball machine in the decoy blind. While the end picture of the dog may be technically perfect, you are rarely going to find extremely strong and intense guarding with dogs that are trained that way. Sure under the majority of judges it is not going to matter, but if you get an extremely good judge that can really read dogs you could be setting yourself up to lose points. Personally I would rather lose a point or two for the dog being technically incorrect rather than lose points for lack of power.

Dogs that are trained with the decoy as the primary focus just bring a different level of fight in the end picture. When getting at the helper is foremost in the dog's mind you can introduce more and more obedience into the exercise. When done correctly, this produces even more power into the work because prey drive + conflict= power. This approach also brings the drives into balance. When the exercise is taught as solely a prey exercise, then you usually start to see wide slalom course blind searches. Under a decent judge this equals point loss. If you get the bite work first and then introduce the handler demanding obedience (but not through compulsion) then you introduce conflict into the work. You will then see more power. If done correctly it is a dramatic difference you would see.

I liked the returning to the handler after the initial blind search. If you make them come to a complete front position before sending them onto a decoy then you would really start to see very tight blind searches, more obedience during the protection routine and more power as they take the frustration, at being thwarted in their search into the helper. Of course you would have to have a secure front position to accomplish this. Then the handler becomes even more of the focus. This is especially true if the dog does not know when he starts to return to the handler if he is going to be called to the front position or sent through to the next blind. They start to return to the handler quicker because they begin to see that as the conduit to the helper. This is a dog who is much less likely to flip the bird to the handler in a trial.
Rosamburg,
You are definately right in the things you point out here, and thus I wanted to clarify a few things based on what you said. We did not teach the blind search solely as the obedience exercise, he was taught the initial blind with the helper in blind and once I wanted to add the actual multiple blind search, I went to the obedience route, to create the tight crisp turns around the blind and the coming back to me the handler between blinds.
Matrix is actually a very intense and powerful dog in the blind with the decoy. I will try to get some video of this and post it for you to look at. but he has one of the best guard and barks I have seen in a long time in my opinion, and the opinion of some others in the sport, as he is very very strong during this, He actually moves in close to the helper and puts his head above and over the sleep and stares the decoy in the eyes as he barks, and he guards so closely that his chest is almost touching the decoy and his feet are almost on top of the decoys feet. he is a very dominant pushy dog in the blind. As a matter of fact, we can only use a very strong experienced decoy with him, or he will bully the decoy. We have used some helpers who are newer and that we are teaching, just to show him some different faces, and if the decoy is not strong and powerful back, he will bully them and push them around, He actually just the other day, decided he would force the younger decoy into giving him a bite by nose bumping him in the chest and stomach pushing him backwards knocking over the blind, until the decoy moved the arm and he could take the bite. LOL, it was actually funny to watch, and of course I didnt discourage it, as I want that kind of power, intensity and confidence in the guard and bark. I think you would actually probably be impressed with his power there.
 
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