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marienburg is mary rodgers, who is a very big name breeder and has been breeding for a long time. she has a full kennel of dobes (yes, she has a kennel). she does limited health testing (her own admission, see the most recent DD article).

She has been around a long time and has produced some very nice dogs. and some very not so nice ones. she has produced a lot though.
 

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doberkim said:
marienburg is mary rodgers, who is a very big name breeder and has been breeding for a long time. she has a full kennel of dobes (yes, she has a kennel). she does limited health testing (her own admission, see the most recent DD article).

She has been around a long time and has produced some very nice dogs. and some very not so nice ones. she has produced a lot though.
Kim about hit it all. Mary seems to produce some nice dogs...but I'd hope that anyone who had been in the game as long as she has, and breeding as much as she does would. I found the article in Feb DD very interesting... and not all in a good way, but not all bad either. We are in different geographic areas, so I don't see much of her stuff around here. My Velma goes back to her import male.
 

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Ann said:
Doberman Digest. It has picture ad's and articles.
Right, I should have said the Doberman Digest. In every issue, they usually highlight 2 breeders. I really enjoy reading about them. Along with the article, there are usually a lot of ads placed by people with their dogs as they get a discount in that issue.... so in addition to the article about the breeder, you get to see a lot of pictures of what they have produced. Also, in the article itself, there are usually many pictures of their dogs from the past.... which is really nice when you are pretty new to the whole show scene. Louise's breeder was highlighted a couple of years ago and I can go back to that issue and see a lot of her relatives.

If you are interested in Marienburg... you might want to see if you can buy that back issue of the DD. There is another thread going with the info for DD.
 

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velmadobe said:
We are in different geographic areas, so I don't see much of her stuff around here. My Velma goes back to her import male.
Mary lives in Montana now, but lived in California until that move..so we saw a lot of Marienburg dogs in the rings out here for many years.

Over the years she produced two different lines...the first based around her Ch. Marienburg's Sun Hawk, CD..Sun Hawk won the DPCA National 3 times (something only a small handful of dogs have done), and was the top producing stud dog in the breed for quite a few years. I think he produced 86 champions. Many of my dogs were linebred on this line, which is called "old" Marienburg.

The line she has now is based on a Dutch import, Dexter vom Frankenhorst. She brought Dexter to this country after Sun Hawk's death, in an effort to improve health and just to do something new. I believe Dexter produced 29 champions, most of them Marienburg dogs..few other breeders in this country wanted "to go there" with Dexter. Can't say I blame them.

In recent years, she's tried to bring her old line back and combine it with the Dexter line by using dogs that are heavily linebred on Sunhawk..most often through a South American dog, Ch. Nello's Lex Luthor. This is where Runner (Ch. Marienburg's Born To Run) comes in.

While she's had some big winners by doing this, could be the health ramifications are going to be high..it's looking like Lex Luthor produces a lot of dogs with liver issues.

Mary is Mary...a very nice lady to talk to. She's forgotten more about dobermans than most of us will ever know. But she's an old fashioned breeder, and in some areas she just hasn't progressed with the times...health testing being a good example.
 

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TwoDobieGirls said:
So where does Repo Man fit into the picture? I heard about that dog before I even had Dobermans.
RP was a Lex Luthor son, out of a Dexter granddaughter. He died about a year ago from prostate cancer complicated by copper toxicosis (a liver disorder). I think he was 7.
 

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TwoDobieGirls said:
So where does Repo Man fit into the picture? I heard about that dog before I even had Dobermans.
Marienburg's Repo Man was a Nello's Lex Luther son - Lex is a South American dog. On RP's dams side, she goes back to Dexter Vom Franckenhorst... Mary's Netherlands import. I never saw RP in person ....just photos. From what I understand, he was very extreme but hard to ignore and a lot of people bred to him. He died at age 6. His cause of death is: prostate cancer/copper toxicosis.... which I believe is a liver disorder. I've heard that liver problems are rampant in the sa lines.... can't swear to that. If you look at his pedigree on Dobequest, you can see that he is heavily South American and European. The issue with that is a very sharp temperament....not what most people want in a Doberman in this country IMHO.

My Velma goes back to Dexter on her dams side.... she is a lot of dog to handle with attitude to spare. If her front end had been just a little more correct, she would have done much better in the show ring because she walked in like she owned it!! OTOH, she would not have done well in the average pet home because she would have walked all over everyone and taken over. She is a great dog with exceptional temperament....but I know she could have turned out differently in a home that did not know how to work with her.
 

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Hi all....I've been kinda lurking around here for a while...I'll introduce myself in a different post, but I wanted to respond to this thread. Some of you know me, most don't...the ones that do, (Kim, Mary Jo, Cheryl) are who I see so far...

My name is Julie...I have 2 Dobes, my male, Ramsey is 15 weeks old and my female, Raven turned 2 in December.

I'm not sure why you are asking about "Runner", but (from my personal experiences) would like to caution you to reconsider if you are thinking of buying a pup. My female is actually a granddaughter of Repo Man and Lex Luthor on each side, Runner is her father. Her temperment is outstanding and she is beautiful. From my understanding, Mary is not "housing" Runner...he is in different homes with different breeders who tend to follow the theory of not having to health test. Don't get me wrong, I like some of Mary's stuff and I respect her knowledge and experience, but not the group of "followers" she has right now...if you'd like to pm or email me, I can go in to detail...Cheryl, Mary Jo and Kim, you may remember my challenges w/ Raven's breeder in CA.
 

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I don't know why the breeder of the male in question should be respected but not her followers? She doesn't health test either. I am sick and tired of the tiptoeing aroudn so-called reputable people who breed and/or own champions. I've talked to owners of champions whose breed knowledge would fit comfortably inside a thimble. Having enough money to buy a likely show prospect and enough money to pay to have it shown utnil it finishes is all it usually takes, or if that doesn't work, save up some more money and buy one that's already finished. Instant knowledge.

Raising Dobermans in kennels instead of as house dogs isn't conducive to well socialized dogs. I'm not sure how much is nature and how much is nurture because of this but I recently met a "Runner" son at show who acted like a spook.
 

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micdobe said:
I don't know why the breeder of the male in question should be respected but not her followers? She doesn't health test either. I am sick and tired of the tiptoeing aroudn so-called reputable people who breed and/or own champions. I've talked to owners of champions whose breed knowledge would fit comfortably inside a thimble. Having enough money to buy a likely show prospect and enough money to pay to have it shown utnil it finishes is all it usually takes, or if that doesn't work, save up some more money and buy one that's already finished. Instant knowledge.

Raising Dobermans in kennels instead of as house dogs isn't conducive to well socialized dogs. I'm not sure how much is nature and how much is nurture because of this but I recently met a "Runner" son at show who acted like a spook.

Ok, let me clarify. What I meant by respecting Mary as opposed to the others in question is her accomplishments and knowledge. I can respect her accomplishments and not agree with her breeding practices at the same time. That said, I wouldn't buy a dog from her either. I also agree that dogs should NOT be raised in a kennel situation. And you are right...they are charging these inflated prices because they can. I personally know of a Marienburg "follower" puppy who just sold for $3,800.00...as a PET...they are banking on the region they are in and the fact that a sucker is born every day.
 

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doberluv said:
From my understanding, Mary is not "housing" Runner...he is in different homes with different breeders who tend to follow the theory of not having to health test.
I could be wrong, but I think Runner is co owned by Mary and the Kusumoto's.
I don't know that I'd call the Kusumoto's "breeders" as such, I can't think of a litter they've ever produced themselves. They're just rich people who back a lot of Mary's dogs for her, they also backed/co owned RP.

It wouldn't surprise me if Runner lived with them now that RP is gone..but I noticed on the Marienburg website that stud inquiries for the dog are directed to Mary-so I'd say she's the one still orchestrating his career as a stud dog.

But Julie makes a good point..if the long term breeder acting as a mentor doesn't health test, it's almost guaranteed the newcomers they mentor aren't going to, either. And that's unfortunate..

yes, I remember the difficulties Julie had with Raven's breeder, and it's a really sad situation.
 

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doberluv said:
they are charging these inflated prices because they can. I personally know of a Marienburg "follower" puppy who just sold for $3,800.00...as a PET...they are banking on the region they are in and the fact that a sucker is born every day.
I think more than anything, they're banking on puppy owners not knowing any better. I don't know that region has much to do with it...you don't see too many long term owners/breeders in this area flocking to buy puppies from these people or breeders like them, or even really from these lines. They know better-and they know better than to pay that kind of money for a pet quality puppy, no matter what the lines might be.

That's the part that really bothers me-it's novice (breeder) preying on novice puppy buyer.
 

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Just wondering if anyone read the article in Doberman Digest in Feb issue about the Doberman National in Mexico. Michelle Lewis wrote about her experience, and Mary Rogers wrote about her experience....and I wondered if they had gone to the same place. All Mary did was complain... I can't believe that they even printed it....as if no-one else in the world had ever had a lousy international flight experience. I of course have never met either lady, but would sure rather spend time with Michelle Lewis than Mary based on just that article. I read that article before reading the whole saga of Marienburg Dobermans.... and it kind of colored my perception.

I also did not like the limited health testing attitude. I know that there are plenty of breeders out there that agree with her. I just personally think that we should do what we can to try and produce healthy dogs..... nothing is perfect and there are no guarentees, but to not test is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best.
 
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