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Discussion Starter #1
A Co worker of mine is seriously considering taking her 5yo GSD to stay with Marc Goldberg for 2 weeks. She said this is going to cost her a couple grand. Does anyone know anything about this guy? I don't have any advice for her since I know nothing about him or his training methods. I was hoping someone on here might know something.
 

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i'd want to know why your friend's thinking about doing this. is there something she's unable to train her dog to do?
 
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Just a quick glance at his website and personally I'd pass. But first off, what exactly does she need trained?

He's full of crap :) - his method involves remote collar training (not sure how that is force free but whatever)

"Why forceless? Most people just don't feel good yelling at their dogs or yanking on a choke collar. Moreover, doing so just turns the training process into a contest of willpower. Anyone who has ever lived with a dog knows they have an endless supply of willpower. So simply forcing your dog to behave leaves them forever looking for an opportunity to outwit you.

We also do not "cookie or clicker train." These methods do work well for competition dogs who must perform routines under controlled conditions. We find them useless when trying to stop unwanted behaviors in the real world. Clicking a clicker or offering a food treat simply will not stop your dog from chasing down a squirrel.

Our method is forceless and involves no choke or pinch collars. It also involves no bribery with clickers or cookies. What we do is calming and effective. Frankly, this must be seen to be believed. Call us for a free behavior consultation."
 
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Thanks for the reply. She said the dog is very hyper and growled at her once. I asked about exercise and she says the dog is walked and if she can't, the dog enjoys the treadmill. I honestly don't think she ever trained the dog and she doesn't know what to do or where to start. The growling issue was over a toy filled with food. This is the only information I have right now.
 

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yeah, she needs a good basic obedience class where she's taught how to train the dog. can you help her find one of those?
 

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yeah, she needs a good basic obedience class where she's taught how to train the dog. can you help her find one of those?


Yes. That is exactly what I told her. I offered to help her as well. .but she is set on this no force training guy. I'm really trying to convince her to be patient with the dog and attend some obedience classes.
 

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she should not have a dog if she's unwilling to train it. :(
 

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Does she understand no force means force by use of an ecollar? It's a marketing ploy.
 
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Training with a e collar on a dog that has already growled may make the dog worse more aggressive in the long run. She needs to find class where she & the dog can go together learn together.
 

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I don't know this guy and havnt looked at his website, but personally I have just seen too many dogs ruined by places where dogs are sent away for training away from where people can watch what's going on :( I know there have been a few bad experiences posted on here- could you perhaps search for previous threads on residential training facilities and print them out to show her?
 

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yeah, she needs a good basic obedience class where she's taught how to train the dog. can you help her find one of those?
Yes. I have given some names and lists of places. I offered to help as well. She really seems convinced that this guy will train her dog. I'm trying to convince her otherwise. Thanks everyone.
 

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I don't know this guy and havnt looked at his website, but personally I have just seen too many dogs ruined by places where dogs are sent away for training away from where people can watch what's going on :( I know there have been a few bad experiences posted on here- could you perhaps search for previous threads on residential training facilities and print them out to show her?
Good idea. Thanks.
 

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Hey - nice to 'see' you! Your friend is deluded if she thinks giving over her mature dog to a stranger to train it for her, and then receiving it back, all "fixed", is going to work. She is the one who has enabled the dog's behaviors for 5 years, without correctly training or correcting bad behaviors, and without adequately providing for outlets and focus for the dog's physical and mental exercise. SHE is the one who needs training and rehabilitation, not the dog. The dog will learn to respect and obey the trainer, but when it returns home, within a month, if not much less, it will revert to the behaviors your friend allows - and she will believe that the dog is 'bad'. It's a shame.
 

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Hey - nice to 'see' you! Your friend is deluded if she thinks giving over her mature dog to a stranger to train it for her, and then receiving it back, all "fixed", is going to work. She is the one who has enabled the dog's behaviors for 5 years, without correctly training or correcting bad behaviors, and without adequately providing for outlets and focus for the dog's physical and mental exercise. SHE is the one who needs training and rehabilitation, not the dog. The dog will learn to respect and obey the trainer, but when it returns home, within a month, if not much less, it will revert to the behaviors your friend allows - and she will believe that the dog is 'bad'. It's a shame.
Agreed. However, she knows she has a good dog and this is her fault. I think she is afraid that the dog won't listen to her. I offered to pay for a beginners training class. I'm hoping she accepts.

Good to see you too!
 

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I know this is an old post, but I think it's my duty to share my experience with Marc Goldberg with anyone who is thinking of using him...

I sent my 5 month old doberman,Zeus, to Marc for 3 weeks of training. He was a perfectly normal 5 month old dog, exhibiting normal behaviours, like counter surfing, jumping up on people, mouthing my kids when he was playing with them and didnt have great leash manners, but he was awesome off leash. Nothing major, I was just trying to get ahead of the 6 month behavioural issues. I paid $3800US upfront.

I thought Marc was "force free" because that's what he calls himself and there was nothing in his book about training with ecollars and pinch collars. When I arrived he pulled out an electronic collar. I was completely surprised. I said "nothing on your website or in your book says you use an electronic collar", to which he replied "it's all over my website and my book is not about that". Up to this point I had only used positive reinforcement on Zeus. Marc and I discussed it and decided he would not use the collar on my dog. He said "I've been doing this for 30 years, I can do it without the ecollar." It still left me feeling uneasy that he had so obviously mislead me.

When I picked up Zeus 3 weeks later, this is what I got...

- An infected acral lick granuloma (caused by stress and boredom, I can only assume because there was no underlying medical condition). The vet was worried the infection may get into his bone and he would have to remove his toe. He went on antibiotics, and we had to keep the wound very clean (no parks, cleaning twice a day)

-he attacked 2 dogs in the first 2 days, unprovoked. One was his good buddy. When I asked Marc about this he said "clearly you did not follow protocol". Meanwhile, Patrick Ferrel, the trainer who trained us said it was fine for him to play with other dogs.

-before he went to training, he loved all strangers and new people. In the first week back, he would randomly bark and growl at strangers.

-he looked like a different dog. He smelt so bad. We took him straight to Petsmart to have him washed before our 9 hour car ride home. But we could get the smell out for 3 days. His fur had totally lost it's shine.

-before he went for training, he happily went in his crate. After he came back he would completely freakout in his crate, barking and pawing.

-pressure sores on all his bony pressure points

- and here is my biggest reason to suspect he neglected my dog by leaving him in the crate for inhumane amounts of time...when I came for my two day training on day 1, I mistakenly arrived 2 hours early. Marc was out of town and I was to meet with his partner Patrick, who I assumed lived on the premise. When I contacted Patrick, he was not planning to come until noon. So when was someone last with Zeus if Marc had left town 2 days before??

When I texted Marc 2 days after i arrived home to tell him what was going with Zeus. I asked him 2 questions. How long would you leave him in the crate for? and, where does it say on your site that you use e-collars or where is the contract you say you sent me saying you use ecollars? Both legitimate questions in my mind...Here was his response...

"We did not train Zeus with an ecollar. He never wore one. Ever. He behaved nicely in the crate for us after the first day or two. We had him near many dogs and he never attacked anyone. Clearly you are not following protocols we suggested or you would be getting the same results as we did - which we have video of. If you want suggestions let me know but I will no longer respond to accusations."

My response: "I wasn't accusing you of using an ecollar, I was accusing you of misleading your clients by calling yourself Force Free. That makes you untrustworthy. My question to you was how long did you leave him in the crate for?"

To which he has NEVER replied. That was 8 days ago.

So after $3800, I received my dog back with way bigger issues than when I dropped him off. Any leash manners he was taught were completely gone within 2 days.
 

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I know this is an old post, but I think it's my duty to share my experience with Marc Goldberg with anyone who is thinking of using him...

I sent my 5 month old doberman,Zeus, to Marc for 3 weeks of training. He was a perfectly normal 5 month old dog, exhibiting normal behaviours, like counter surfing, jumping up on people, mouthing my kids when he was playing with them and didnt have great leash manners, but he was awesome off leash. Nothing major, I was just trying to get ahead of the 6 month behavioural issues. I paid $3800US upfront.

I thought Marc was "force free" because that's what he calls himself and there was nothing in his book about training with ecollars and pinch collars. When I arrived he pulled out an electronic collar. I was completely surprised. I said "nothing on your website or in your book says you use an electronic collar", to which he replied "it's all over my website and my book is not about that". Up to this point I had only used positive reinforcement on Zeus. Marc and I discussed it and decided he would not use the collar on my dog. He said "I've been doing this for 30 years, I can do it without the ecollar." It still left me feeling uneasy that he had so obviously mislead me.

When I picked up Zeus 3 weeks later, this is what I got...

- An infected acral lick granuloma (caused by stress and boredom, I can only assume because there was no underlying medical condition). The vet was worried the infection may get into his bone and he would have to remove his toe. He went on antibiotics, and we had to keep the wound very clean (no parks, cleaning twice a day)

-he attacked 2 dogs in the first 2 days, unprovoked. One was his good buddy. When I asked Marc about this he said "clearly you did not follow protocol". Meanwhile, Patrick Ferrel, the trainer who trained us said it was fine for him to play with other dogs.

-before he went to training, he loved all strangers and new people. In the first week back, he would randomly bark and growl at strangers.

-he looked like a different dog. He smelt so bad. We took him straight to Petsmart to have him washed before our 9 hour car ride home. But we could get the smell out for 3 days. His fur had totally lost it's shine.

-before he went for training, he happily went in his crate. After he came back he would completely freakout in his crate, barking and pawing.

-pressure sores on all his bony pressure points

- and here is my biggest reason to suspect he neglected my dog by leaving him in the crate for inhumane amounts of time...when I came for my two day training on day 1, I mistakenly arrived 2 hours early. Marc was out of town and I was to meet with his partner Patrick, who I assumed lived on the premise. When I contacted Patrick, he was not planning to come until noon. So when was someone last with Zeus if Marc had left town 2 days before??

When I texted Marc 2 days after i arrived home to tell him what was going with Zeus. I asked him 2 questions. How long would you leave him in the crate for? and, where does it say on your site that you use e-collars or where is the contract you say you sent me saying you use ecollars? Both legitimate questions in my mind...Here was his response...

"We did not train Zeus with an ecollar. He never wore one. Ever. He behaved nicely in the crate for us after the first day or two. We had him near many dogs and he never attacked anyone. Clearly you are not following protocols we suggested or you would be getting the same results as we did - which we have video of. If you want suggestions let me know but I will no longer respond to accusations."

My response: "I wasn't accusing you of using an ecollar, I was accusing you of misleading your clients by calling yourself Force Free. That makes you untrustworthy. My question to you was how long did you leave him in the crate for?"

To which he has NEVER replied. That was 8 days ago.

So after $3800, I received my dog back with way bigger issues than when I dropped him off. Any leash manners he was taught were completely gone within 2 days.
And I'd say this is a good example of WHY we (on this list) generally NEVER recommend training at an away from the dogs own home location. I have no problem with private lessons where the owner goes to the trainers facility WITH their dog and is trained by them under the trainers careful supervision or the trainer comes to the owners home and supervises the owner, training the dog.

But I will continue to recommend a good trainer and class--it's my opinion that the dog and the owner learn a lot more that way.

Those kinds of away from home training locations are very expensive lessons for owners to learn. Generally the poor dog learns not much at all.
 

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Sadly, you will never know all that transpired. Brings tears to my eyes even thinking about it.
I have had run in's even at training class with some trainers. Why they always want to use my
dog as an example, I don't know. First time, it took me off guard, but never again. And, that was
with me present.
I think your post in this thread will be good for anyone to read that is thinking about sending their dog away to be trained.
Thanks for sharing that.
 

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I know this is an old post, but I think it's my duty to share my experience with Marc Goldberg with anyone who is thinking of using him...

I sent my 5 month old doberman,Zeus, to Marc for 3 weeks of training. He was a perfectly normal 5 month old dog, exhibiting normal behaviours, like counter surfing, jumping up on people, mouthing my kids when he was playing with them and didnt have great leash manners, but he was awesome off leash. Nothing major, I was just trying to get ahead of the 6 month behavioural issues. I paid $3800US upfront.

I thought Marc was "force free" because that's what he calls himself and there was nothing in his book about training with ecollars and pinch collars. When I arrived he pulled out an electronic collar. I was completely surprised. I said "nothing on your website or in your book says you use an electronic collar", to which he replied "it's all over my website and my book is not about that". Up to this point I had only used positive reinforcement on Zeus. Marc and I discussed it and decided he would not use the collar on my dog. He said "I've been doing this for 30 years, I can do it without the ecollar." It still left me feeling uneasy that he had so obviously mislead me.

When I picked up Zeus 3 weeks later, this is what I got...

- An infected acral lick granuloma (caused by stress and boredom, I can only assume because there was no underlying medical condition). The vet was worried the infection may get into his bone and he would have to remove his toe. He went on antibiotics, and we had to keep the wound very clean (no parks, cleaning twice a day)

-he attacked 2 dogs in the first 2 days, unprovoked. One was his good buddy. When I asked Marc about this he said "clearly you did not follow protocol". Meanwhile, Patrick Ferrel, the trainer who trained us said it was fine for him to play with other dogs.

-before he went to training, he loved all strangers and new people. In the first week back, he would randomly bark and growl at strangers.

-he looked like a different dog. He smelt so bad. We took him straight to Petsmart to have him washed before our 9 hour car ride home. But we could get the smell out for 3 days. His fur had totally lost it's shine.

-before he went for training, he happily went in his crate. After he came back he would completely freakout in his crate, barking and pawing.

-pressure sores on all his bony pressure points

- and here is my biggest reason to suspect he neglected my dog by leaving him in the crate for inhumane amounts of time...when I came for my two day training on day 1, I mistakenly arrived 2 hours early. Marc was out of town and I was to meet with his partner Patrick, who I assumed lived on the premise. When I contacted Patrick, he was not planning to come until noon. So when was someone last with Zeus if Marc had left town 2 days before??

When I texted Marc 2 days after i arrived home to tell him what was going with Zeus. I asked him 2 questions. How long would you leave him in the crate for? and, where does it say on your site that you use e-collars or where is the contract you say you sent me saying you use ecollars? Both legitimate questions in my mind...Here was his response...

"We did not train Zeus with an ecollar. He never wore one. Ever. He behaved nicely in the crate for us after the first day or two. We had him near many dogs and he never attacked anyone. Clearly you are not following protocols we suggested or you would be getting the same results as we did - which we have video of. If you want suggestions let me know but I will no longer respond to accusations."

My response: "I wasn't accusing you of using an ecollar, I was accusing you of misleading your clients by calling yourself Force Free. That makes you untrustworthy. My question to you was how long did you leave him in the crate for?"

To which he has NEVER replied. That was 8 days ago.

So after $3800, I received my dog back with way bigger issues than when I dropped him off. Any leash manners he was taught were completely gone within 2 days.
Marniemason
Nice of you to WARN others / but quite frankly, your due-diligence & reacting on your gut feel SUCKS.
- our Pups and Human children, are all babies / & parents NEED to protect them, from emotional & physical harm

I've heard of a nice young dobe going to a training kennel, for a 2 week stay-over / this was 40 years ago.
- and ruined dog, came back scared of its own shadow, and suffered 3 broken vertebrae
- at the instructors hands, trained by him holding a 2x4 piece of lumber / making contact, with top of dogs spine
Sorry you fell, for the "Easy Training method", when you farmed the rewarding work, off to a complete stranger.
- our girl counter surfed till 7 months old, and lightly corrected / and one day she just stopped, because she was tall enough to see (the food preparation)...comes with maturity
- don't want to put in the work / so shuffle him off
- reading this ^^ makes me sick


#1 - Shock collars were never designed for beginners ...
#2 - Shock collars were never designed for pups ...
^^ E-collars tend to be the lazy-quick fix / until bigger problems develop, usually later.
- some dogs ruined, by their inexperienced owner

PS - our Dobe girl from 10 weeks young, wanted to go after our sons little YorkiePoo and they both wanted to be boss hog & physical. We supervised 24/7 when the wee dog, was visiting (3x per month)....and we laid down RULES.
- took over a year (part time ) of strict supervision / and now they will sleep together, share sofa & eat side by side
- it was exhausting work initially, but peaceful sharing of territorial space...did happen, in a crate-less home
- both happy now, in each others company / and 100% trustworthy...but took real WORK
 

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Hoss was in a board and train ......because I did not know of the potential problems.....never considered myself being lazy...thought I was doing the right thing....I learned so much ......but....during one of our group training classes the lead instructor noted hoss..and one of his personally owned dogs in a down stay targeting one another....Hoss stood up and the trainer smacked his rear leg hind quarter real hard...he may have cupped his hand...but it was loud...really loud...then the trainer looked at me and said...scared him didn’t I....and laughed...I left class and never returned....I respected the man..been going there for quite some time....but like I told him ..nobody hits my dog.....
Turns out one of his prized rot’s was at a city council meeting and the trained dog got ahold of a toddlers head and he could not get his own dog to release the kids head.So of course the dog was put down.
So my lesson was ...no one will train your dog better than yourself
 
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