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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well Odin is not doing well with Natures Variety Instinct so it looks like I will have to make the switch to Purina Pro Plan chicken and rice. Being that this food is spectacular is there any additives I should give him? I don't know I have always just been really hesitant feeding the commercial dog food ever since my last Dobe and a really bad experience with the commercial food but I guess if it works for Odin then I have no choice.




here is the ingredients

Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, brewers dried yeast, fish meal, dried egg product, natural flavor, fish oil, calcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, dried colostrum, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium carbonate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
U-4458
Manufactured and guaranteed by: Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, St. Louis, MO 63164 USA
Animal feeding tests using Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) procedures substantiate that Pro Plan Puppy Chicken & Rice Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages of dogs.
 

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Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, ..............

^^^^ My first impression & concerns are:
a) chicken as first ingredient -----> would have way more chicken content, if it was listed as chicken meal instead (without 70% water, by weight)
- in the kibble manufacturing process, once they dehydrate the water out of the chicken (to become meal)...that #1 main ingredient could drop ~4 to 5 positions in order / leaving brewers rice, meat by-products and corn as #1, #2, #3
b) brewers rice is a by-product of the beer brewing industry (not much food value) -- brown &/or white rice is much better
c) poultry by-product meal -----> not the best protein meat source, more the nasty bird parts...not fit for human consumpion
- also listed as a meal, so food could be loaded up with the stuff...compared to the chicken level
d) so much corn in the bag, the corn contents has to have split names...just so corn doesn't end up as the very first ingredient, by weight
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Chicken, brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, corn germ meal, ..............

^^^^ My first impression & concerns are:
a) chicken as first ingredient -----> would have way more chicken content, if it was listed as chicken meal instead (without 70% water, by weight)
- in the kibble manufacturing process, once they dehydrate the water out of the chicken (to become meal)...that #1 main ingredient could drop ~4 to 5 positions in order / leaving brewers rice, meat by-products and corn as #1, #2, #3
b) brewers rice is a by-product of the beer brewing industry (not much food value) -- brown &/or white rice is much better
c) poultry by-product meal -----> not the best protein meat source, more the nasty bird parts...not fit for human consumpion
- also listed as a meal, so food could be loaded up with the stuff...compared to the chicken level
d) so much corn in the bag, the corn contents has to have split names...just so corn doesn't end up as the very first ingredient, by weight
:cry: I know, I am no where near pleased that I am feeding him this but I don't know what else to do. Everything that is good for him has either sweet potato or corn in it. LindaH suggested Back to Basics but I haven't seen that one anywhere near me.

I would have loved it if he could have had natures variety instinct but he wouldn't even touch it when I presented to him. He skipped 4 meals before he even ate and after he ate he had diarrhea and he threw up. I gave it a week and his stools did not get firm, I don't know if I should try a different flavor or not. I am at my witts ends trying to find a food that will work for him.

Edit: well I did some digging and found Back to Basics an hour away from me so I think I might pick up a bag when I drop Odin off at the breeders this weekend since the store is near the breeder.
 
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I am so sorry Odin has so much trouble eating. Have you tried giving the herbs slippery elm and marshmellow yet? They sooth the throat, stomach irritated by throwing up and the intestines, irritated by diarrhea. You can order a product that contains both, Phytomucil, from Animals' Apawthecary. Or get them at your local health food store. Steep 1 teaspoon of one or both in 8 oz very hot water, add teaspoon honey for flavor and give 3 tablespoons every 4 hrs. I would give 3 days if it was me. I have never had to use this and am getting most info from Whole Dog Journal, but it didnt say how long to give, so guessing on that. ///// Be sure to get a small bag of Back to Basics. Have you read the Dog Aware site, below in my signature, section for dogs with IBS, etc? You might pick up some helpful hints there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
wow I feel dumb, I took another look at the ingredients on the NVI chicken formula and it has carrots :eek:hno: I really want to stick with a high quality food. It just gets under my skin just thinking about feeding a commercial food. I have pictures of what my last Dobe boy looked like when we had the issue of a commercial food and every time I think about feeding a food like that I see the pic :( I think I will feed him some boiled chicken and rice to ease his system.

Edit: I also have been doing some research on Beta carotene and it seems that Orange and yellow foods and sometime dark green will have BC and in Odin's last NVI it have butternut squash which is yellow, it had carrots which is orange and it had salmon oil which is also orange spinach and broccoli, kelp . No wonder why he didn't want to eat it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am so sorry Odin has so much trouble eating. Have you tried giving the herbs slippery elm and marshmellow yet? They sooth the throat, stomach irritated by throwing up and the intestines, irritated by diarrhea. You can order a product that contains both, Phytomucil, from Animals' Apawthecary. Or get them at your local health food store. Steep 1 teaspoon of one or both in 8 oz very hot water, add teaspoon honey for flavor and give 3 tablespoons every 4 hrs. I would give 3 days if it was me. I have never had to use this and am getting most info from Whole Dog Journal, but it didnt say how long to give, so guessing on that. ///// Be sure to get a small bag of Back to Basics. Have you read the Dog Aware site, below in my signature, section for dogs with IBS, etc? You might pick up some helpful hints there.
I might not not even be able to feed back to basics as well as peas have beta carotene in it. I don't know if it would be enough for him to react to it or not. But in the beginning he didn't react to the other food either. Looking at all of NV products they all have a few things he can't have.

I think I am going to look for a dog nutritionist and see what my options are, thanks for all your help LindaH I will take a look for slippery elm and marshmellow to ease any irritation. As much as I hate it I might have to settle with the commercial food, but I am not going to give up. I am still going to look and see what my options are.
 

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Here is one brand, to check out...don't know if it is available, in your area (link to store locator)...maybe worth a look.
- my favorate kibble...I have recommended to many pet owners, around here (both dogs with & without some problems)

******************************************************************************************

Holistic Blend All Life Stages Lamb & Rice original formula Lamb and Rice Formula - Holistic Blend
Highlights:
Free Range New Zealand Lamb (Human Grade/No By-Products or Rendered Meats)
Naturally Preserved (Rosemary)
Holistic & Conventional Vet. Recommended
Chelated minerals, whole grains, fruits, antioxidants and herbs
Promotes healthy skin and coat
Hypo-allergenic
Highly digestible and palatable
Balanced Omega 6 & 3 fatty acids (5-2 ratio)
Ingredients allow for smaller feeding portions

DOES HAVE .............................DOES NOT HAVE
Lamb Meal ..............................Animal By-Products
Millet .....................................Poultry Fat
Whole Brown Rice .....................BHA/BHT
Amaranth ................................Ethoxyquin
Barley ....................................Corn
Wild Salmon Meal .................... Wheat or Wheat Gluten
Flax Seed ...............................Sugar
Alfalfa ....................................Salt
Cranberries ............................ Soya
Garlic .....................................Beet Pulp
Cinnamon ...............................Growth Hormones
Rosemary ...............................Antibiotics

INGREDIENTS: Lamb meal, whole ground millet, whole ground brown rice, whole ground barley, wild salmon meal, yeast culture, flax meal, sunflower oil, alfalfa, L-lysine, cranberries, yucca schidigera extract, garlic powder, cinnamon powder, rosemary extract. Vitamins: choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin, vitamin A acetate, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin K1 supplement, folic acid. Minerals: calcium carbonate, ferrous sulphate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, zinc proteinate, sodium selenite, manganese proteinate, colbalt sulphate, calcium iodate, copper proteinate.

No chemical preservatives or dyes are added to keep the colour of the food consistent. Colour may vary but the quality is always the same. High quality foods!
 

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Have you actually had any allergy testing done? I ask because food allergies are actually not that common in dogs. I would personally want to figure out what's actually causing his reactions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you actually had any allergy testing done? I ask because food allergies are actually not that common in dogs. I would personally want to figure out what's actually causing his reactions.
I am going to find a pet nutrition specialist if I can or a holistic vet, because no I haven't had him tested. I am just going off of the process of elimination that I have done myself.Every time I give him something beta carotene related he has a reaction. I have been doing a lot of research and allergies for things like that is really rare in humans. It's found more in European people than anywhere else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Make his own food :D
I am really considering switching him to raw once I get back from vacation. There is a butcher shop that prepares it for you, he shows dogs and feeds them raw so that will be where I will get his food.
 
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I've had Spock on Pro Plan Shredded Chicken Large Breed since he turned 1 year old. We had him on Wolf Cub Large Breed Puppy up until 1 year. He likes the shredded chicken pieces, which he'll pick out and eat first followed by the kibble. Make sure you check the Exp. date on bottom of the kibble bags when you purchase, as I didn't once and got an old bag which had weevils in it from Pet Supply Plus. The chicken had a white powder on pieces was first sign plus the little critters crawling around. Found out bag was old and they exchanged for new bag which was okay.

Once in a while we'll mix in a can of Sardines in oil with his Pro Plan- he loves it! We're really not into the extensive food research that some of the DT members are. He eats it all, his coat is good and he's healthy.

Here's a recent pic taken outside the dog park in some rather pathetic bluebonnets (no comparison to ZR or PR's recent beautiful bluebonnet pics)

 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well I think I found a food that he can have, California natural lamb and rice. Thanks everyone for your info. I am going to look into a kibble and raw diet.
 

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Yeah, there's nothing in there but a protein and rice IIRC. Whatever you do, dont just switch over, do it gradually or you will have a screaming projectile diarrhea. At least I know the lamb meal and rice will do it. Good luck and I hope it works for Odin.
 

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I am really considering switching him to raw once I get back from vacation. There is a butcher shop that prepares it for you, he shows dogs and feeds them raw so that will be where I will get his food.
If I could find a butcher shop that helpful for raw feeders, I would feed all my dogs raw!

I haven't been having the type of issue your having with Odin, but I has taken a few different diets to figure out what Hans did well on. It would make me feel better feeding him a grain free, high quality kibble, but Hans has done best on Pro Plan Performance. I still feed him a raw meal with meat and veggies at night, but its getting to be a pain to find reasonable prices in my area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well after the second feeding of pureina pro plan his stool went back to normal. I tried offering a couple sample bags of some quality food that he could possibly have but he wouldn't eat them. So I think I will do pro plan and raw that way u feel a little bit more comfortable he's getting some added nutrition.
 
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With the time you've had, I really hope the PP continues to work for him. Supplimenting with raw is an excellend move.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With the time you've had, I really hope the PP continues to work for him. Supplimenting with raw is an excellend move.
yeah I meant to put I* not U. The breeder was telling me that a recent survey was done and some of the top 100 show dogs were on Purina pro plan. Even if that's true I am still going to feed him some raw. Just feel like he isn't going to get all the nutrition that he could get with just PP.

Thanks for all the help guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think I have FINALLY found a dog food that will work. First off Odin has been on Purina Pro Plan for about a week and I already notice more plaque on his teeth and his coat coat duller. With the other grain free foods even if he was dirty his coat still had a shine to it. I am going to feed him the rest of the PPP and see how it goes. His stools did harden up to normal, he still has some gas but it is no where near as stinky as it was.

The food I found is called FirstMate FirstMate - pet foods It is a pretty penny though, so I still want to add raw to his diet maybe for the evening meal. That way if he goes on a show the breeder doesn't has to worry about carrying around raw food. He can just eat his kibble.
 
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