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After weeks and weeks of unsuccessfully trying to get our puppy to walk on a loose leash without feeling like my arms were being pulled off, we finally achieved that this morning. Ok so I had a "secret weapon." Just received our Lola Limited collar yesterday in the mail. Can you say miracle in a box? Literally. I woke up extra early today, (well not by choice, Bella still insists on getting me up before dawn but that's another story), I got dressed and took her for a walk with her new collar and it was instant results. We walked for about a mile and I was working on her heal and she was looking at me and really trying. Pulling stopped imediately once she had the collar on. About a block into our walk she was actually heeling, and stopping when I stopped. This was the first time I was able to walk her instead of her walking me. So exciting. If any of you have puppies that are pulling I highly recommend the Lola Limited collar. Can't praise it enough. I might just survive puppy hood with my shoulders in tact after all.
 

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Just make sure that you're only working on focus work for short periods of time during your walk. I'd suggest that you ask her for heeling while you cross the street or something approximately the same distance and then let her have some just plain old walking (as long as she keeps the leash loose) for a while before asking her to heel again. It's really tough (and not very much fun) for a puppy to heel for long periods of time and they eventually get sullen and won't want to do it anymore. :(


As for using a prong collar on a four month old puppy... There's no reason why it should be a problem as long as the collar is being used correctly and with attention to the pup's reaction.
 

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So wait... are you using a prong collar on a 4 month old puppy??
She would have to be a very, very, tiny weak person to have a 4 month old puppy pull her down the street. ;)
 
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So wait... are you using a prong collar on a 4 month old puppy??
yes I am and I'm not ashamed to admit it because I tried EVERYTHING and nothing was working. Its not like the prong collars you see in the pet stores though. The way these custom made collars are designed there is purposefully no prong on the trachea and its much much safer than using a regular choke collar or a harness that pulls on her chest. When I walked her with the choke collar she was practically gagging the entire time because she was pulling so hard. Even with the regular buckle collar she was gagging and panting. She started loose leash walking after she felt the first slight pinch and she never once pulled again so while the prongs are there, shes not pulling so its not pinching her. The thing I like about this collar too is that the prongs are removable so I can take them out or adjust them as needed. Its been a lifesaver for me.
 

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She would have to be a very, very, tiny weak person to have a 4 month old puppy pull her down the street. ;)
I am not tiny nor am I week but I am telling you, honestly, this puppy is so strong. She is 42 lbs of solid muscle and she was pulling me down the street. I'm not joking, I started using a retractable leash with her, which was much easier on my arm than a six foot standard lesash but that just wasn't safe with all the cars driving by, it was like I was constantly having to "fish her in" so to speak. this is a much better alternative for us. My arms were not pulled today and I actually enjoyed our walk.
 

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Don't worry CH4sure, I will also admit I can't handle my puppy pulling me at full strength and thats why we also got a prong. Everyone laughs but I just hand her over to them to prove my point and watch their arm snap because she pulls so hard. They are so shocked at the strength coming out of this 50 pound 7 month old puppy... But it really is a whole lot of strength, they are so strong even as puppies. In training class we can't bring prongs, and my arm is almost broken by the end of it!

edit: we just got our prong a couple of weeks ago, before then, even @ 3,4,5 months she was still very strong and I was even unable to walk her sometimes without my boyfriend. The prong used properly is a great training tool. I now use the prong on every walk, but I also switch the leash half way through to her flat buckle and train on that as well.
 

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Just make sure that you're only working on focus work for short periods of time during your walk. I'd suggest that you ask her for heeling while you cross the street or something approximately the same distance and then let her have some just plain old walking (as long as she keeps the leash loose) for a while before asking her to heel again. It's really tough (and not very much fun) for a puppy to heel for long periods of time and they eventually get sullen and won't want to do it anymore. :(


As for using a prong collar on a four month old puppy... There's no reason why it should be a problem as long as the collar is being used correctly and with attention to the pup's reaction.
Thanks so much for the advice Cristina, yes totally agree, I didn't heal her the entire time, we explored, stopped to talk to neighbors, watched the birds, I made it fun for her. It was so much easier without her just pulling and pulling and pulling.
 

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Don't worry CH4sure, I will also admit I can't handle my puppy pulling me at full strength and thats why we also got a prong. Everyone laughs but I just hand her over to them to prove my point and watch their arm snap because she pulls so hard. They are so shocked at the strength coming out of this 50 pound 7 month old puppy... But it really is a whole lot of strength, they are so strong even as puppies. In training class we can't bring prongs, and my arm is almost broken by the end of it!

edit: we just got our prong a couple of weeks ago, before then, even @ 3,4,5 months she was still very strong and I was even unable to walk her sometimes without my boyfriend. The prong used properly is a great training tool. I now use the prong on every walk, but I also switch the leash half way through to her flat buckle and train on that as well.
Thanks Arankin, I think this is much safer and much more humane then those stupid "gentle Leader" collars I saw in a training class in petsmart. I mean really? Those poor dogs were suffering with their muzzles all wrapped up, there was nothing "gentle" about them in my opinion. they tried to sell us one I just laughed. I told the sales woman hell would freeze over first before I ever put anything around our little girls muzzle. lol.
 

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Lola sounded good till I hit the prong statement. Personally not a fan of any type prong collar.
I teach a dog in 3 stages, early puppy loose leash, lets walk have fun, when side by side praising\reward, 3 months on depending on dog, snap choke collar and proper use, once fully understanding heel and various commands, then onto loose leash. Any kickback back to snap. Then play that game till dog understands walk under choke or pace the master.

The key here is proper use of choke and simply no walking.
 

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Thanks Arankin, I think this is much safer and much more humane then those stupid "gentle Leader" collars I saw in a training class in petsmart. I mean really? Those poor dogs were suffering with their muzzles all wrapped up, there was nothing "gentle" about them in my opinion. they tried to sell us one I just laughed. I told the sales woman hell would freeze over first before I ever put anything around our little girls muzzle. lol.
Good, because a lot of those muzzle driven collars pull the neck at an odd angle and dobes should never have their necks pulled, especially at odd angles.

Just make sure she doesn't get collar wise and only behave when the pinch collar is on - do the switch over like Arankin suggested so she learns that pulling just gets her back on the prong - leave both around her neck and just move the leash or better yet, initially use 2 leashes so she doesn't know how it could happen. Surprise is one of our best tools. I would use a very light leash for the prong so doesn't even know it is there - a light type of nylon woven one is what I have used for this in the past.

This also gives you added insurance to have a good leash available immediately on a flat collar in case trouble happens or you have to jerk her out of the way of a car or another dog etc. You don't want to be doing any of that with a prong.
 
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yes I am and I'm not ashamed to admit it because I tried EVERYTHING and nothing was working. Its not like the prong collars you see in the pet stores though. The way these custom made collars are designed there is purposefully no prong on the trachea and its much much safer than using a regular choke collar or a harness that pulls on her chest. When I walked her with the choke collar she was practically gagging the entire time because she was pulling so hard. Even with the regular buckle collar she was gagging and panting. She started loose leash walking after she felt the first slight pinch and she never once pulled again so while the prongs are there, shes not pulling so its not pinching her. The thing I like about this collar too is that the prongs are removable so I can take them out or adjust them as needed. Its been a lifesaver for me.
Hey I understand Jasmine is a puller, always has been, always will be. We tried everything to she is 5 1/2 years old. However I think she is in a small percentage of dogs that will not give up their pulling.

I would use the Lola collar but have a regular collar on her to. Practice switching back and forth from one collar to the other. Preferably switching to the regular collar after she has burnt off some steam. Because like Viv said they will get collar wise...well behaved on the prong back to pulling full steam on the regular. They do know the difference

I have the regular prongs for training and I also have the Lola collars. The Lola prongs are not near as sharp as the regular prongs.

Lastly what have you been doing to train loose leash walking??
 

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Lola sounded good till I hit the prong statement. Personally not a fan of any type prong collar.
I teach a dog in 3 stages, early puppy loose leash, lets walk have fun, when side by side praising\reward, 3 months on depending on dog, snap choke collar and proper use, once fully understanding heel and various commands, then onto loose leash. Any kickback back to snap. Then play that game till dog understands walk under choke or pace the master.

The key here is proper use of choke and simply no walking.
No way would I choose a choke over a prong. The choke will keep choking. At that young age are you saying the game is to keep choking the dog unless s/he decides to stay right with you? The prong is much more humane. Even tho it looks like a torture device. Once it is pulled tight it will not tighten anymore nor will it give another correction until you relax it. I used one on Kyrah for a good while and it was pretty much self correcting. Very rarely did I ever have to give her a correction. For over a yr now she has not been using one. Kyrah is a great walker but there still is an occassion something may really get her nose wanting to go and sniff. On a flat collar it is much harder for me to hold her, actually if she really wanted she could probably pull me off my feet, but since she has matured so has her response to my verbal commands. I believe the prong collar is a great training tool. I also believe in a much more positive relationship with my dog.

ETA: Congrats CH4Sure. Yes, it is nice when you can walk down the street instead of being pulled. Tho it was my terriers who needed the most work.
 

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The choke will keep choking.
.
Then the choke collar (or snap collar) is not being used properly.
Right now my Nubis is on a flat collar and will be for awhile, until min he has a stronger neck. I am also using different techniques aside from leash control, ie: stop and go, turnarounds, circles, or just simply ending the activity and returning home, etc, rewards and lots of praise,encouragement, and reassurance.
Even with my two prev dobes who eventually got to a flat collar, I carried the choke on walks, as a training aid reminder in the event of an unexpected event or needing tighter control. Alot of the times, once the choker was placed back on, they knew they had to perform on their best behavior bcuz for one reason or another I seen the need to have it on them.
Its a psychological method.
I was taught military drill movements by an instructor who carried a parade stick. Would he ever use it, NO. But it has effect and we were drilled to perform at 150% or our best effort. Initially it has a fear factor but after accomplishing things you never thought you could do, you gain a true respect for that instructor as he is teaching you skills that will save your life. If you were placed in you what appeared to be harms way it was instinct to trust that they wouldn't intentionally harm you.
There are a few reasons I am not keen on prong or inverted spike collars, it gives other ppl the impression that the dog is vicious or uncontrollable and can send the wrong message to your dog by the other ppls actions and reactions.
 
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Then the choke collar (or snap collar) is not being used properly.
Right now my Nubis is on a flat collar and will be for awhile, until min he has a stronger neck. I am also using different techniques aside from leash control, ie: stop and go, turnarounds, circles, or just simply ending the activity and returning home, etc, rewards and lots of praise,encouragement, and reassurance.
Even with my two prev dobes who eventually got to a flat collar, I carried the choke on walks, as a training aid reminder in the event of an unexpected event or needing tighter control. Alot of the times, once the choker was placed back on, they knew they had to perform on their best behavior bcuz for one reason or another I seen the need to have it on them.
Its a psychological method.
I was taught military drill movements by an instructor who carried a parade stick. Would he ever use it, NO. But it has effect and we were drilled to perform at 150% or our best effort. Initially it has a fear factor but after accomplishing things you never thought you could do, you gain a true respect for that instructor as he is teaching you skills that will save your life. If you were placed in you what appeared to be harms way it was instinct to trust that they wouldn't intentionally harm you.
There are a few reasons I am not keen on prong or inverted spike collars, it gives other ppl the impression that the dog is vicious or uncontrollable and can send the wrong message to your dog by the other ppls actions and reactions.
Sorry I disagree at least in my experience when I walk Jasmine on a flat collar she is pulling and panting and choking. She looks like she would eat you up if she was coming towards you. Walked on a prong she is a different dog. People are much more willing to come pat her because she is calmer, less aggressive looking.
 

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Then the choke collar (or snap collar) is not being used properly.
Right now my Nubis is on a flat collar and will be for awhile, until min he has a stronger neck. I am also using different techniques aside from leash control, ie: stop and go, turnarounds, circles, or just simply ending the activity and returning home, etc, rewards and lots of praise,encouragement, and reassurance.
Even with my two prev dobes who eventually got to a flat collar, I carried the choke on walks, as a training aid reminder in the event of an unexpected event or needing tighter control. Alot of the times, once the choker was placed back on, they knew they had to perform on their best behavior bcuz for one reason or another I seen the need to have it on them.
Its a psychological method.
I was taught military drill movements by an instructor who carried a parade stick. Would he ever use it, NO. But it has effect and we were drilled to perform at 150% or our best effort. Initially it has a fear factor but after accomplishing things you never thought you could do, you gain a true respect for that instructor as he is teaching you skills that will save your life. If you were placed in you what appeared to be harms way it was instinct to trust that they wouldn't intentionally harm you.
There are a few reasons I am not keen on prong or inverted spike collars, it gives other ppl the impression that the dog is vicious or uncontrollable and can send the wrong message to your dog by the other ppls actions and reactions.
This is something we will have to disagree on. I do not train by using fear nor will I ever. I would never respect anyone who tried to teach me anything using a fear technique. I also dont care what uneducated people think about what training tools I use. I get compliments on Kyrah's, the terriers to, behavior all the time even tho she is one they cannot pet regardless if she had on her prong or not. But I do respect our military. IMO they are a different breed themselves and provide me with the luxury to be the way I am.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey I understand Jasmine is a puller, always has been, always will be. We tried everything to she is 5 1/2 years old. However I think she is in a small percentage of dogs that will not give up their pulling.

I would use the Lola collar but have a regular collar on her to. Practice switching back and forth from one collar to the other. Preferably switching to the regular collar after she has burnt off some steam. Because like Viv said they will get collar wise...well behaved on the prong back to pulling full steam on the regular. They do know the difference

I have the regular prongs for training and I also have the Lola collars. The Lola prongs are not near as sharp as the regular prongs.

Lastly what have you been doing to train loose leash walking??
Okie I have been doing a number of things. When she started pulling I would try just stopping for a few minutes and trying to get her to learn that if I stop we don't get to walk. didn't work. she kept pulling while I stood still. Then I tried walking her in the opposite direction while saying no pull whenever she pulled thinking this would slow her down and anticipate havingto turn around anyways so no bother pulling, didn't work. Tried using a choke collar thinking that would give her some restraint. Didn't work. All the while I was using food bait to try and get her attention and reward her, didnt' work. Finally I gave up and bought a kong harness and started walking her on a retractable lead thinking that maybe by walking so far ahead she wouldn't pull so much and she didn't but it wasn't teaching her anything. I like that the lola collars have rounded prongs as opposed to those pointy ones and I only plan on using it until I get her to walk loose in a heel. This is not my first go around with puppy training. Granted its been over 25 years since I had a small puppy and trained it,(our other dogs were older rescues that we adopted) but I just remember it being so much easier with my Standard Poodle. I don't know maybe I am just getting old. lol.
 

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Then the choke collar (or snap collar) is not being used properly.
Right now my Nubis is on a flat collar and will be for awhile, until min he has a stronger neck. I am also using different techniques aside from leash control, ie: stop and go, turnarounds, circles, or just simply ending the activity and returning home, etc, rewards and lots of praise,encouragement, and reassurance.
Even with my two prev dobes who eventually got to a flat collar, I carried the choke on walks, as a training aid reminder in the event of an unexpected event or needing tighter control. Alot of the times, once the choker was placed back on, they knew they had to perform on their best behavior bcuz for one reason or another I seen the need to have it on them.
Its a psychological method.
I was taught military drill movements by an instructor who carried a parade stick. Would he ever use it, NO. But it has effect and we were drilled to perform at 150% or our best effort. Initially it has a fear factor but after accomplishing things you never thought you could do, you gain a true respect for that instructor as he is teaching you skills that will save your life. If you were placed in you what appeared to be harms way it was instinct to trust that they wouldn't intentionally harm you.
There are a few reasons I am not keen on prong or inverted spike collars, it gives other ppl the impression that the dog is vicious or uncontrollable and can send the wrong message to your dog by the other ppls actions and reactions.
Nubis'Dad the beauty in this collar is that the prongs are hidden under fabric ribbon so unless you invert the collar you can't even see that it is a prong collar. Believe me up until trying it I was totally against any and all prong collars, I would shake my head whenever I would see someone walking a dog wearing one thinking how cruel it was, but I never had a puller before either and I take her out alot in public and my attitude towards them have changed as a result. I have to agree with okie, she is a totally different, calmer, much more approachable puppy when wearing it. As for the military correlation in regards to training, I have to agree with the other poster as well. I don't think training with fear is the way to go. You want your dog to want to do the right thing to make you happy not because he's afraid of the consequence. Fear does not make it fun for the dog and it can break its spriit. Just my opinion.
 

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I am sorry if others feel my whole walking motivation is based on fear. IT IS CERTAINLY NOT. It is the initial break in stage. I often correlate it to breaking the wildness of a stallion.
Trust me, having an abusive alcoholic step father I know all about fear. i learned unconditional love from a dog when I was very young, a dog that I sought out because I needed a friend fast because my spirit was broken. no one gave me the dog, I found out someone had puppy's and I went and fell in love with the runt because I quickly figured our we were a team because we were both outcasts.
Anyone that knows me in RL, would consider me an ole dog or a gentle giant.
Crap my wife only recently heard the growl in my voice and its loudness\tone.
Am I am going around screaming at the pup constantly, nope, far from it.
I am not pulling psychological warfare here, could I , you bet I could bcuz when i couldn't beat my step father physically, i learned my mouth,\choice of words could take him down mentally. Did i enjoy, doing it, nope but i had to learn surviving skills at a very early age, something a kid shouldn't have to do.
I might have been assaulted of a portion of my childhood but my puppy will always remember his puppyhood.

I will have to research these type collars and i will admit, i am ignorant to their existence.
I'm talking about those spike collars as i have seen\felt the scars on the neck and the fear in the dogs eyes.
 

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CH, I too am in love with the prong collar. When Gem was on a choker it was terrible and her drive for the terrorists (squirrels) was just too great to let some choking stop her. She is more relaxed because I am more relaxed. I still do "time outs" with her when she gets too excited (or I get annoyed) it works wonders. She knows that she cannot go until she is relaxed and focused on me instead of the overgrown fluffy rats. I do use a flat and the prong at the same time. I rarely have to give any corrections anymore, and the ones I do give are so much lighter then the intensity on the choke. It's like she thought she could push through the pressure. Sorry for the long response, I could have just said I AGREE! :) I'm blaming the 6 cups of Dunkin I've had this morning. lol
 
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