looking for a puppy way up north in MN
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I have not but I am from MN and many people from this site have told me that there are no rep. breeders in MN...
Also have you thought about adoption? They have some great looking dogs at the Doberman Rescue Minnesota Website: http://dobermanrescueminnesota.com/index.php
Good luck in your search!!
Also have you thought about adoption? They have some great looking dogs at the Doberman Rescue Minnesota Website: http://dobermanrescueminnesota.com/index.php
Good luck in your search!!
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http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/47441-reputable-breeders-new-folks.html
I've never heard of Doberman Gardens.... The link I've posted above is to a thread that lists what you should be looking for in a breeder. Does the breeder your asking about do all of this?
Edit: Is this them? The site doesn't mention health testing other than OFAs and there are no pictures of the adult dogs in any type of venue (conformation, agility, etc). Those things worry me.
I've never heard of Doberman Gardens.... The link I've posted above is to a thread that lists what you should be looking for in a breeder. Does the breeder your asking about do all of this?
Edit: Is this them? The site doesn't mention health testing other than OFAs and there are no pictures of the adult dogs in any type of venue (conformation, agility, etc). Those things worry me.
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Totally agree with PR on this... this sentence makes me uneasy: "All my dogs are healthy, happy, good tempered, great family dogs, & some are so show quality. "
What do they mean by show quality? If they were show quality why are they not SHOWING them in events. I feel like it is a ploy to lure you in. But then again, I am quite new to judging breeders myself.
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When I was growing up our first Doberman came from a local breeder. Despite all the fancy looking titles in the pedigree he grew to be quite oversized and later died at 6.
Being out of the house and looking for a new buddy, I spent Over a year and a half looking for my next boy. He came to me by way of Continental Airlines, from Germany to Chicago. I got a happy, healthy dog, of proper size, and feel much better about his individual bloodlines than my last boy. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm not telling you to go overseas to get a dog, but I'd strongly advocate expanding your search within the US and flying in the highest quality pup you can find.
Being out of the house and looking for a new buddy, I spent Over a year and a half looking for my next boy. He came to me by way of Continental Airlines, from Germany to Chicago. I got a happy, healthy dog, of proper size, and feel much better about his individual bloodlines than my last boy. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm not telling you to go overseas to get a dog, but I'd strongly advocate expanding your search within the US and flying in the highest quality pup you can find.
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Just for the record it is very common for a litter to only have a few dogs that are actually show quality. This is not an excuse for not showing the dogs they produce in a venue wether it be sport or show. Just realize that many many litters are produced from CH. parents and still have dogs who fall below the standard.
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Onyx11, you are going to have to travel or have a pup shipped to you. There aren't any good breeders here in MN. I would personally look at breeders in Illinois or Michigan if you still want to stay relatively close to home. Bruda is in Illinois. Gorrmae is in Michigan. You might contact Jaimand in North Dakota (Home). I think they have a spring litter planned. I don't have personal experience with any of these, so please do your due diligence in talking with the breeder about health testing that has been done on their breeding dogs.
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I live in northern Minnesota too and I've had both of our current dogs flown in after buying from one bad in Mn. one with our first. We loved the dog (Boris) with all of our hearts, but the issues he had from no socialization when he was in the young critical age made it a real struggle even though we got him through it.
Just the statement on the named site saying that "we keep our dogs in clean facilities" raises a flag to me. Doberman's are not kept in facilities, but are part of our homes and lives.
Just the statement on the named site saying that "we keep our dogs in clean facilities" raises a flag to me. Doberman's are not kept in facilities, but are part of our homes and lives.
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Regarding the OFA results on their dogs...
Shayla's hip rating: Fair
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Shayla's sire, Fritz Jesse Governor Black: rated mild for HD
Fritz, their breeding male: whelped May 2010. If any OFA was done, it would be prelims as he's not 2 years old yet.
Shayla's hip rating: Fair
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Shayla's sire, Fritz Jesse Governor Black: rated mild for HD
Fritz, their breeding male: whelped May 2010. If any OFA was done, it would be prelims as he's not 2 years old yet.
I visited Doberman gardens yesterday. Despite the negative comments on here from people who have never visited them or "never heard of them, so they must be bad", I have all positive things to say. All the dogs were gorgeous and seemed very happy. I sent some pics to friends and they even commented on how clean the kennels were. Holly is very passionate and knowledgeable. I was left with the impression she really loves her dogs and the Doberman breed. BTW all of her dogs have all the AKC and vet papers on the parents you would want.
They have a facebook page you can form some opinions on too based on some of their videos and other facebook comments. Morale of the story here, make up your own mind on any given subject. Don't just take the opinion of a few negative people, that have never been or heard of this place as a reliable source of info. Here is a link to their website for anyone interested in looking into them. Holly is very good about responding to texts about any Doberman questions that we had.
Breeders.NET
They have a facebook page you can form some opinions on too based on some of their videos and other facebook comments. Morale of the story here, make up your own mind on any given subject. Don't just take the opinion of a few negative people, that have never been or heard of this place as a reliable source of info. Here is a link to their website for anyone interested in looking into them. Holly is very good about responding to texts about any Doberman questions that we had.
Breeders.NET
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So, basically, shawnt, you are choosing to take the word of the person giving the sales pitch and taking your $$$$ + some cutesy photos on Facebook + a clean KENNEL (Dobermans do not thrive as kennel dogs) as evidence of a well-bred dog? You are also choosing to take those marketing ploys as "truth" over the advice of people here on the forum with decades of experience in the breed and absolutely nothing to gain from giving sound advice. Really? That is pretty much the definition of ignorance. Or, more likely, the words of the BYB known as Doberman Gardens. Why else revive a ancient thread with BS?
Oh, wait, I get it now. You have suddenly become an "expert" on judging whether or not a breeder is a reputable breeder. And how could you become an instant expert on a complex breed of dog? Why, by virtue of your observations of a clean kennel and by listening to the Backyard breeder's ridiculous marketing lies. Oh yes, and let us not forget your "Doberman expert" opinion that these are good dogs because, after all, they are AKC registered. It must be either profound congenital ignorance or possibly an alien invasion that prevents these newbies from seeing that anybody with a checkbook or credit card can have an AKC registration on a dog.
Is there some easily obtainable play book out there with scripts for these people because they all say the same ridiculous things? It makes me crazy!
Oh, wait, I get it now. You have suddenly become an "expert" on judging whether or not a breeder is a reputable breeder. And how could you become an instant expert on a complex breed of dog? Why, by virtue of your observations of a clean kennel and by listening to the Backyard breeder's ridiculous marketing lies. Oh yes, and let us not forget your "Doberman expert" opinion that these are good dogs because, after all, they are AKC registered. It must be either profound congenital ignorance or possibly an alien invasion that prevents these newbies from seeing that anybody with a checkbook or credit card can have an AKC registration on a dog.
Is there some easily obtainable play book out there with scripts for these people because they all say the same ridiculous things? It makes me crazy!
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okay, indulge me. what health testing have they done? please be specific.
also, why should their dogs be bred? who has judged them worthy of breeding? what titles do the breeding dogs hold?
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I also like how they say
[A Good Breeder is usually part of a breed club,are involved in showing & training dogs, should present a clean, healthy environment & should always be willing to let you see the facility where the dogs are kept, should be as interested in your qualifications to be an owner as you are in them as a breeder, should show you vaccination, worming, vet & heath records on both parents & puppies & should insist that you take your puppy to the vet for follow up vaccinations & check ups to insure your puppy has a healthy & happy life with you, provide for you a pedigree & registration application forms, should provide you with written instructions on how & what to feed your puppy to keep him healthy, should provide training tips & resources & be ready to answer any questions if they should ever come up, Breeder should provide you with references, a written contract with conditions of sale & your Guarantee, assure that the relationship between you & them is an on going one. We do All these things to ensure our puppies go to responsible owners who understand the breed & will give them wonderful, loving, forever homes. - See more at: ]Breeders.NET]
Aaaand then they don't do it....
[A Good Breeder is usually part of a breed club,are involved in showing & training dogs, should present a clean, healthy environment & should always be willing to let you see the facility where the dogs are kept, should be as interested in your qualifications to be an owner as you are in them as a breeder, should show you vaccination, worming, vet & heath records on both parents & puppies & should insist that you take your puppy to the vet for follow up vaccinations & check ups to insure your puppy has a healthy & happy life with you, provide for you a pedigree & registration application forms, should provide you with written instructions on how & what to feed your puppy to keep him healthy, should provide training tips & resources & be ready to answer any questions if they should ever come up, Breeder should provide you with references, a written contract with conditions of sale & your Guarantee, assure that the relationship between you & them is an on going one. We do All these things to ensure our puppies go to responsible owners who understand the breed & will give them wonderful, loving, forever homes. - See more at: ]Breeders.NET]
Aaaand then they don't do it....
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You could do so much better than that, even if you don't want to travel out of state.
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One of your 2 posts in DT history is bumping up an old thread... I believe Professor Quirrell said it best.. "TROOOLLLL in the Dungeon!!" ... or a greeder trying to defend themselves
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shawnt...
This is Doberman Talk and we do NOT support or endorse bybs or greeders.
This is Doberman Talk and we do NOT support or endorse bybs or greeders.
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Sadly, you didn't take the time to educate yourself about this breed. There are several things that are of issue, one being a breeding dog with mild HD. A 1 (one) year health guarantee - works great for the breeder, since things such as HD cannot even be tested until 24 months of age.
What you need to be asking (or not, if you don't care about the health of your family pet): vWD status, Results of most recent (should be done annually) Thyroid panel, Liver/Kidney Panel, Holter, Echocardiogram, Eyes (CERF).
In addition, you should be doing some pedigree research: How many dogs in the first 3 generations are still alive? Those that are dead, what did they die of? Any Cardio, CVI, Cancer close up?
While this "breeder" may be nice, love their dogs, clean, etc. They are uneducated themselves. Their dogs are poor quality, ear crops are terrible and they really don't know much about the breed as is evidenced by the lack of health testing. One does not need to meet them or their dogs to know that they are not an educated, ethical, reputable breeder.
It wouldn't have taken too much digging to find Pine Crest or Rio Gran Dobermans. Both are in MN and both are considered reputable, quality breeders.
What you need to be asking (or not, if you don't care about the health of your family pet): vWD status, Results of most recent (should be done annually) Thyroid panel, Liver/Kidney Panel, Holter, Echocardiogram, Eyes (CERF).
In addition, you should be doing some pedigree research: How many dogs in the first 3 generations are still alive? Those that are dead, what did they die of? Any Cardio, CVI, Cancer close up?
While this "breeder" may be nice, love their dogs, clean, etc. They are uneducated themselves. Their dogs are poor quality, ear crops are terrible and they really don't know much about the breed as is evidenced by the lack of health testing. One does not need to meet them or their dogs to know that they are not an educated, ethical, reputable breeder.
It wouldn't have taken too much digging to find Pine Crest or Rio Gran Dobermans. Both are in MN and both are considered reputable, quality breeders.
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