I'd steer clear of these and read up on the breeders that are being suggested here.I found some breeders but do not know anything about them:
Britton Farms European Dobermans breed show quality Dobermans and Superior Sized Dobermans
Dobermann de Tejas has a bitch who is Mondio ring titled.
Good obedience is the product of a dog that wants to please and a great obedience training program. Ring clubs are generally not that known for great obedience. In a very long routine when ob is scored relatively low it is just not as much of a priority.
Thanks for the advice. I do not know much about breeders that is why I asked. I appreciate you pointing things out for me because I am a newbie when I comes to these things.If you are just looking at Texas for a breeder of working line Dobermann's then your chances are extremely slim of finding anything. I also wonder by your post if you really know the difference between working line and Euro show line dogs as any of the ones you put up were from euro show stock. And at least one of the breeders is one that has a reputation for being very unethical.
As far as working dobermann breeders in all of North America, I would hesitate to point to any single breeder and say "this is who I would recommend". Why do I say this???
First of all there are very few working line breeders in all of North America (probably less than 5). Of these even fewer breed on a regular basis. Second there are very few good studs. Third some of the working breeders don't do much of anything with their dogs. The lines might be good but if they are not titling their dogs and putting them under the pressure of trialing then you really don't know what you got.
You have to decide what you really want and then go from there. To have a good chance of getting a good working dog, IMO, you have to look first at the individual bitch and what she brings. I don't think you can even say to look at what they produce because there are just so few bitch's that have produced much of anything, unfortunately we just do not have this luxury. To complicate it even further there are a very limited number of handlers that have titled a Dobermann in all of North America. Of those that have probably the majority have titled Euro show line dogs. This makes it next to impossible for a breeder to develop a good breeding program with proven results.
As far as Tejas, she had a very nice bitch (a B litter Wustenstrum bitch out of Evita v. Dragonerriech X Alfred von Haus Mann, probably past breeding age by now) who achieved sch3 as well as a Mondioring 1 title. The first breeding was to a Sch3 show line male and the second was to a working line male that had a Sch3, but had not done much of anything after getting the Sch3 in Europe, so beyond word of mouth it is difficult to tell what he really brings. Both of these breedings are typical of a breeding here.
With the sad state of the Dobermann as a working breed, it is vitally important to know what each dog brings to make a good combination to have a good chance of success in breeding. Unfortunately breeders here often do not have this luxury. I know a few years back when I went to breed my last bitch I had to go by word of mouth (after having first traveled to Germany for an unsuccessful attempt at breeding) in terms of what the stud brought (as well as looking at the lines and hoping). As far as what was produced it was a mixed bag (and none are titled to date). This makes the breeding very typical.
Some people who breed go by the flavor of the month. Some people go by what dog is being hyped, without seeing the dog ever work. Some people go by trial scores. The problem with this is that all judges, helpers, trials, etc are not created equal. to top it off some dogs that may be technically correct are not really great working dogs.
As far as Landgraf, Wendy Schmidt has produced some good dogs. I am one of the few that was there to watch Lucy get her Sch1 (I even have video of it). In my opinion she was a nice dog. I would look at one of her dogs as an option. On the other hand like any other breeder in North America, it is difficult to say just how good the dogs are because of the lack of handlers and a lack of quality training environments. I would have to look at the individual dogs being bred because she has also had to use unproven studs, and in some cases untitled because there are just so few of choices for anyone who is breeding on a regular basis.
I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, just being realistic here. I just plain do not listen to what people say about any given dogs. This is because too many people have rose-colored glasses when it comes to their dogs. Some people have rose-colored glasses when it comes to breeders. Too few people really know dogs. Too many training programs are extremely mediocre (at best) and incapable of bringing out or in some cases showing what the dog has.
I did hear of a breeding in the South recently that has some promise, but it is too soon to tell if it took. I would recommend going on the Working Dobermann Forum and seeing what they have to say. I have recently moved and am spending more time training so have not been on the forums much. Maybe someone else who is more aware of what is going on out there might be aware of other breedings. Good luck
The obedience is some thing that is important to me personally. But thank you for pointing out more about the scoring.Good obedience is the product of a dog that wants to please and a great obedience training program. Ring clubs are generally not that known for great obedience. In a very long routine when ob is scored relatively low it is just not as much of a priority.
Are you new to the sport? If so, some of the working line dogs may be great for getting into the sport, even if Rosamberg is right and it's hard to find lines that can be successful at high levels of competition (and I don't know if that's true or not, since I'm not at all involved in the working world).
The only stud Wendy has used that was untitled was Areck from John K. I believe. I don't know of any others that are not titled.As far as Landgraf, Wendy Schmidt has produced some good dogs. I am one of the few that was there to watch Lucy get her Sch1 (I even have video of it). In my opinion she was a nice dog. I would look at one of her dogs as an option. On the other hand like any other breeder in North America, it is difficult to say just how good the dogs are because of the lack of handlers and a lack of quality training environments. I would have to look at the individual dogs being bred because she has also had to use unproven studs, and in some cases untitled because there are just so few of choices for anyone who is breeding on a regular basis.
that is true as far as I know as well, but just points to the situation of finding good stud dogs. When I say unproven, I can only speak to their performance. You can't even say any dogs are proven as stud dogs because there are not enough breedings to confirm what a working dog can produce.The only stud Wendy has used that was untitled was Areck from John K. I believe. I don't know of any others that are not titled.
Depends on your criteria. Mine would be a breeder who uses proven working line dogs. Working line dogs in my view are dogs who are bred with the primary focus being their working temperament. Not breeding combination's where top working performance traits are an afterthought, such as Euro showline dogs that are chosen primarily because of their conformation, and any titles if present at all are just an obstacle to allow them to show and market their puppies. I do not even include show-working line breeders . In addition when you are looking at conformation as a major consideration (or primary) as well as health and working potential, then you are factoring in far too much to consistently produce very good working prospects. in addition there would be too many questionable dogs in the history. Such breeders rarely produce a dog that would have the kind of drive and working traits to compete at the top levels.so i'm curious, Rosamburg, if there are only like 5 working line breeders.. who are they?
My boy is a Rhapsody pup and I have been nothing but pleased with him and with Irina, his breeder. She does try most sports with her dogs and I know that she has produced dogs that have done well in a ton of venues.