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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone~

This thread is a follow up from the new intro thread where I received so much help from members on Lexi's ears failure to stand~

Well, I took Lexi to Sophia Kloster yesterday and she told me that her ears will not stand with posting b/c of bad crop design according to Lexi's ear leather...

Her ear leather is pretty thick and cut too long and chance of standing after re-cropping is only around 20%...whereas currently chance of standing is zero :(

Sophia also told me that if i do re-crop it will look better even if they dont stand - i dont know about that....

So it was a pretty glum depressing day....I did get to see 2 beautiful & feisty dobie pups getting posting done by her and was envious of how well their ears were standing at such a young age~

I did schedule for a recrop but still uncertain about my decision considering the pain factor and the % of success even afterwards...maybe I should have asked her about 'stringing' and other methods...

Also does anyone recommend laser cropping over trad. methods? I saw a laser cropping vet in Chicago, Il - wonder if thats a better bet...or same...
Sophia told me re-crop will cost $600-$700 b/c of Lexi's age - is it worth to go all the way to IL for laser crop?

She showed me before and after pictures of older puppies getting re-cropped and they did look fabulous afterwards, oldest being 14mths.....still unsure about re-cropping though - she says the pain is worse than spaying...i had a nightmare last night...the schedule date is 6/15, one day after my birthday, so i have till then to think about it...
Maybe i should get some sort of painful cosmetic surgery myself so as not to feel so bad about my vanity over my dog....!

Below are pictures of Lexi at our Mountain Creek (ski slope) hiking trip last weekend and also pictures of Sophia's posting method
 

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awww Im sorry there wasnt good news...but this is a personal choice and we'll respect either decision :) I've never heard of any other methods than the traditional for making ears stand...but Im new to the breed...Where in Illinois is this laser stuff??? Im in Illinois around near Chicago...I don't know if I could help any...but let me know :) man...I dont have any expierence with ears not standing..but its hard to believe that they wont stand no matter what I would think after posting and posting for a long time they eventually would have to. But again I know nothing lol. :)
how long is her crop?
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
this is the link i saw with recommended vets for cropping on a boxer website: http://www.cinemaboxers.com/vets.htm

actually my mistake - the laser cropping vet is in Yorkville, IL...Chicago,IL's Dr. Reece does crop older puppies....

you know, after 6mths of posting it really is a disappointment, but i feel more sorry for her than anything....her ears are approx. 6" long
 

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It won't hurt to ask Sophia about other possibilities before you actually have the ears recropped.

There is "stringing", and there is also taking a tuck at the base of the ear. I have had the tuck method done with beautiful results. It doesn't work in all situations but it can't hurt to ask. The tuck method is the just takes a little "tuck" in the skin at the base of the ear and that makes the ear stand upright and afterwards the dog can use the ear naturally as if nothing was ever done. A rule of thumb to see if this will work is to use your thumb and forefinger to "pinch" a little of that skin at the back of the ear at the base. If doing that makes the ear stand up, then a tuck has a good chance of working. If the ears doesn't stand up when you do that, then so I've been told a tuck probabl won't work.

OTOH it might work after the ears are recropped.

I had a bitch's ears recropped when she was 20 months old. Like Lexi she had a very long crop and rather heavy ear leather. After the recrop the ears stood but they were shorter than I had wanted. That was because IMO the vet I went to wasn't a real expert.

As far as putting her thru pain I think each situation can be different, but I didn't notice any signs of pain or discomfort in my bitch, she just took it all in stride and didn't seem to notice anything had changed.
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
micdobe - you always make me feel better~thank you! i think i will call her and ask her about stringing and tucking. i tried the pinch 'preview' you mentioned
but her ears are too long and will stand only halfway...still floppy and noodley

i hope lexi can withstand it...she was a whiner after spaying....
 

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Sea Hag
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There's a lot I'd do for vanity-but I just wouldn't put a dog through the pain of re-cropping when there's only an @ 20% chance of the ears standing afterwards. Those odds aren't good enough to justify it.

I doubt laser re-cropping would increase those odds any..the touted benefits of laser surgery are reduced bleeding and less damage to the surrounding tissues. One big problem is too much of the ear was removed with the original crop, nothing about laser surgery can address that.

Stringing is only an option if the bases of the ears are standing well, and from the pics you've posted, they're not.

I'm sorry it's turned out like this for you and Lexi. If it were me, I'd just learn to live with her ears the way they are.
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
oh! i forgot to mention - Sophia recommended that I sue Marcia for not sending papers, overcharging for a dog with bad crop etc...(i paid 3500 - at the time i was unaware i was being overcharged) and was willing to refer me to her 'dog lawyer'~ i dont know about sueing, but she certainly got me thinking about Marcia...maybe i should try contact her again....
 

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Im sure you already asked the person you went to this...but what about a shorter curvier crop? I just measured Duchess's ears and they are 5 inches from the absolute lowest part of her ear...like where it curves into her neck...and 3.25 inches from where the ear meets with her head...at the slope too...not at the nob of the head...
I dont know...just trying to help :) but again I know nothing lol I feel like I have to stress that:)lol
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
murreydobe - thank you for your input, im split 2 ways.... the low % rate is what gets to me the most. when sophia whistled to get her attention, her ear base did stand and thats when sophia told me we should try.
when lexi's posts are off, she shakes her head to the point she gets dizzy and flops down - she told me there are risks involved with the ears swelling?
i dont know...im not trying to justify? the pain factor, but the more i think about it, the more i feel that i would rather try than wonder.... also i keep telling myself that the pain is temporary, im sorry if my decisions offend you....
 

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overcharging for a dog with bad crop etc...(i paid 3500 - at the time i was unaware i was being overcharged)
WOW! were you planning to show her? I believe that is even way to expensive even if you were going to show. That would be like two dobes that you dont plan on showing atleast from my experience...wait I just did the math! that would be a tad less than two dogs you plan on showing my bad
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sophia took a marker and drew how she would re-crop and it was about an inch shorter and curvier - much like Duchess's beautiful ears~
I told her if i do decide to re-crop that I wouldn't mind if it were shorter than she drew. Since shorter has more chance of standing, it would be best, although I love the way long show crops look...
 

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I didn't see any pain factor with my bitch, so that's all I can say, I have only the one experience to go by.

I gather from what you say that Sophia thinks it's worth a try?

At least if the ears were shorter, she wouldn't have all that ear flopping around her head. I have Italian Greyhounds, who commonly shake their heads and make their ears "rattle". One of mine, who has larger ears, used to have cracked, bleeding ends on her ears, I don't know if it was from the shaking or not.

What did Sophia mean about risk from swelling? Risk from the surgery? Or risk from Lexi shaking her ears around?

Sophia is right, $3500 is overcharging. You can see a small picture of my puppy on my posts. He has two AKC champion parents, came with his registration application, which I have already sent in, and cost $1,000. Most pet quality puppies from well bred litters that I know of cost between $1,000-$1,500. Show prospects cost more but even they don't usually cost $3,500.

She is also right that you should sue Marcia, but I don't know how far you'd get. You could inquire into it and see tho.
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i wasnt planning to show her, but i wanted a show dog quality pet...marcia told me that basic training was included in that price as well as cropping and shots - but Lexi wasnt trained at all! the only thing she knew was sit! and i know now that the crop job was bad too....
i guess i took her word for everything...and should have done lots more research
especially about price range
 

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Sea Hag
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ivyyoon said:
murreydobe - thank you for your input, im split 2 ways.... the low % rate is what gets to me the most. when sophia whistled to get her attention, her ear base did stand and thats when sophia told me we should try.
when lexi's posts are off, she shakes her head to the point she gets dizzy and flops down - she told me there are risks involved with the ears swelling?
i dont know...im not trying to justify? the pain factor, but the more i think about it, the more i feel that i would rather try than wonder.... also i keep telling myself that the pain is temporary, im sorry if my decisions offend you....
It's not a question of being offended. Everyone has to work within their own comfort level.

The only other thing I'd add would be if you're going to do it, why not wait until she has to have a general anesthetic for something else..like spaying, tooth cleaning or something. I combined getting my male's ears strung with neutering him..even though the newer anesthetics are much safer than those used in the past, there's always a certain element of risk involved in using them. So I tend to try to reduce the number of times my dogs are given anesthetics whenever possible.

I wish you and Lexi well no matter what your decision might be.
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sophia mentioned after she saw lexi shaking her head furiously, that her ears will swell and cause 'some term i dont remember' if i leave her as is.
I dont know if i want to sue marcia - but i really want her to know how disappointed i am in her...no papers, bad crop, no basic training.....what did i pay so much for?
but then again, its my stupidity and lack of research so again, im split 2 ways.
 

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If you don't mind answering some questions, I'm curious. I've always been suspicious of Marcia. How did you find her in the first place? Was it thru her website?

Did Sophia say the ear crop was done badly? And that it is the reason the ears don't stand? Or that it's a combination of a poor crop and the heavy ear leather?

How old was Lexi when you got her? Do you know if her ears were cropped in Russia or in this country?

Marcia doesn't know how to train a dog so even if she wanted to, she couldn't have trained Lexi. She seems to think she knows, and used to give advice to people on several internet sites. The kind of advice she gave told me she didn't know what she was talking about.

When I first saw her posts, she had two backyard bred American bitches who wer mother and daughter, Ginger and Bella, a male she imported from Latvia, Angus, and a puppy bitch she imported from Russia, Kleopatra. She was breeding the two older bitches to Angus. Then she started importing adult bitches from Europe to breed also. Then, all of a sudden, she announced she ws the exclusive agent for Altobello kennels in America and started posting their dogs on her site. She didn't have these dogs in her possession, she just acted as a broker between Altobello and the American purchasers. I didn't know she was also importing puppies from other places, like Lexi.

I think I said before that she has apparently had some trouble with Angus and Ginger being seized and euthanized. So I don't know what her situation is now or what she is doing as far as breeding.

If you do manage to get in contact with her please don't fall for any line she may try to give you. She owes you the registration on your puppy. I think you should notify the AKC of the situation.
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
murreydobe - i want you to know that i really appreciate all comments and i sort of thank you for being the anti-recrop advocate, only because it makes me think over more seriously both aspects...since it really shouldnt be my choice but hers
and since im currently undecided, yet leaning heavily towards re-crop, i need both arguments from more experienced dobie owners than i~
in the matter of anasthesia, she has already been spayed but has never had teeth cleaning yet. still puppy white! im not sure if i want to wait longer - i thought the younger she is the better chance of healing?
 

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RIP Lexi
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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
micdobe - yes! hematomas is what i think she said~ and no, i dont mind questions at all....
- i found marcia thru her website, yes i fell for everything said on her site.i thought she sounded very caring and informative about her dog's health etc. although Lexi's vWd testing done by my vet prior to spaying was very good.
-Sophia said the crop itself was not a good job, but terrible in combination with her ear leather.
- I got Lexi (then named Icess) when she was 3mths and i dont know where she got the crop due to no comm with her. But during the very long phone interview, she told me she flies over the best crop vets from all over the country for her dogs..........

Should i notify AKC thru their website? and notify them of which reasons - all? i dont know...couldnt she sue me for even talking about her and her 'business' this way?
 

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couldnt she sue me for even talking about her and her 'business' this way?
I wouldnt think so...I mean just like every other business...if they have a flaw and a consumer was not happy they are going to flaunt that flaw in reviews...to friends...family. If no one said anything about a bad business then they would just be able to continue upseting people. Without consumer reports, reviews, rants and raves, opinions, experiences...the only way a business would close down is if people had to experience it for themselves...and that isnt right.
 
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