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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i've got a 12mth female dobie and are having some issues while walking on leash.
she gets at least 3x 20mins walks daily, and some short potty walks, 3x5min leash training on these walks

she is not able to walk on "heel" for more than 10-15meters
loose leash and freee walking is ok
off leash, never more than 10-15meters away. nice
struggling to follow me while on leash while i'm jogging,
nightmare when going on bikerides

issues are biting at hands and leash, jumping, bodyslam while walking/jogging
biting in shoes, bar, bodyslam on bike, putting head in between wheels at crank while riding the bike

searched youtube and read books an d tried the works,
previous dog was brilliant - allways off leash

We bought a Doberman because they are supposed to be smart and nice training partners,
but she really fails. Have put a lot of effort with absolutely no result. Really disappointed so far

when does she mature enough to stop acting like a nightmare ?
 

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She needs training, not just exercise. Do you have any in-person classes in your area? A one on one trainer? I would think that will make a huge difference.
If not, Micheal Ellis (Leerburg) sells great streaming DVDs that helped me tremendously when my girl was young.
 

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At 12 months she's still very young and as CRDobe ^ said--she needs training--not exercise. The Michael Ellis videos are good and there is another on line training outfit--Rosemary--my brain isn't working at the moment--what's the name of the outfit you've used that has a big variety of classes designed to help you train your dog.

In person if you can find a decent trainer would help a lot I think.

And actually at a year she is really too young to be doing much jogging much less biking--too much repetitive exercise like this can damage young joints.

If she bites at you or the leash when she's supposed to be heeling--stop immediately--if she has a well trained sit I'd probably have her sit until she settles down. If she can behave for 30 seconds and not do these things then add a little longer periods of heeling. Ditto for jumping--if she jumps stop. If she body slams--stop. Those are basic training issues and generally by the time I take a dog out in public I've faded that kind of behavior by not giving attention (because that's what most of it is about) and crating if she can't settle down. And usually I'm done with that by the time the puppy is 5 months old.

It kind of sounds like you are expecting too much controlled behavior without putting in the preliminary work on control.

Also make sure you aren't giving mixed messages--I've seen people shoot themselves in the foot by rewarding the unwanted behavior and not rewarding appropriate behavior.

Dobes are smart and they do learn quickly and pretty easily but I think some of your expectations are not being met because she's getting mixed messages. If she will heel for 10 or 15 meter then slowly increase the length of time she will heel. Stop and reward before she stops heeling. I don't do a lot of ring type heeling with my dogs when they are out on leash--and i have different commands for walking but not heeling and that means just not pulling

I would not be jogging with a dog that age and definitely not biking. And I've always start biking by doing some walking with the bike and the dog but not when I'm riding. That way I can correct things that the dog might do that involve a possible disasterous dog vs bike encounter.

Better luck going foreward...

dobebug
 

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She is not failing. She is a very young dog who needs to attend structured training sessions with you. Find a local pro and get into class. I have been working with my boy shaping behaviors as early as 10 weeks. We just now moved to advanced class and he still (at 14 months) has issues with certain things because of immaturity. It takes time and understanding. You need to ensure you are helping her understand what is expected.

That is why so many dogs end up in rescue - not everyone has the patience to learn the language their dogs understand.

Do not run her at all until the vet clears her. Likely her growth plates aren’t fully closed yet and hard surface impact will affect her joints.

One immediate thing you can do is to let her play before a walk. If it is a potty break, make it just that - leash her up, go out for business and come back in for play. If she doesn’t need that but you want to walk, give her some time to play in the house or backyard before you leash her up for a walk. She can burn off some energy before you want her to walk nicely.

Good luck!
 

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The Fenzi Dog Sports Academy offers lots of online classes, including on-demand videos for pet dog training. Fenzi Dog Sports Academy - Home

When you say "heel" do you mean walking somewhat close by your side on a loose leash, paying casual attention to you? Or do you mean the stylized "dog glued to your side, paying strict attention to your every cue, and staying in position no matter which direction you move" type of heeling done in the competition obedience ring? Because if she can do 10 to 15 meters of formal heeling at that age, that's pretty darned amazing, in my opinion.

Concerning the issues you are having while running or biking, increased speed increases arousal. Increased arousal needs some place to go, and for her, it comes out as biting, jumping, and other "bad behaviors". Denise Fenzi, in addition to the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, has a subscription service called The High Drive Dog, where she has all the training videos that she has done with her 18 month old working line Tervuren, who has some pretty serious arousal issues. The High Drive Dog - Training with Denise Fenzi
 

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She's a doberman puppy! This is what doberman puppies do. They mature so much later than other dogs. I would suggest training classes to keep her mind busy. I did classes that were over 100 miles away in Ft Collins Co twice a week forever. She also was in agility classes for puppies. Need to tire the mind more than anything. If your looking at obedience type heeling, it takes a long time. You get her bored and she'll hate everything. Puppy socialization, beginning obedience, intermediate obedience and finally open obedience. This was over a three year period. I also traveled 4 hrs one way to start her in protection training once a week. Didn't get a sure fire recall til she was three. I can call her off anything now. Schutzhund obedience probably did the most for me and got her to a competition level. She is not a border collie and won't respond like a border collie til she gets some miles under her. Good luck
 

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Ah the Scandinavians and their obsession with everything and everyone behaving like little obedient robots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thx for all answers so far :)
when i say "heel" i meen walk nicely beside me
not expecting a obedient robot, but this is a large dog so whenever she grows up, she needs to be able to walk properly when needed
guess this is a learning by doing so input from other owner are appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i am still quit puzzled
but from what you have said and what i have read on the internt do i really have to wait until she is two years before she's matured enough to walk properly ?
really two years to get the dog to behave
withe "properly" i mean no biting, no jumping, no pulling and no need for treats to walk ok

daily routine for now:
5-10 minutes with treats every 50yards, walks ok
5-10 minutes walks ok
5-10 minutes horrible
total 20-30minutes walk three or four times a day,

leash walking could be 20-40yards walking, "sit by heel" and treat
as above - with "stop", "sit" or "lay", "turn", "wait" while i walk 5-15yards
no treats - no nice girl at all

allways at one point she turns bitchy
 

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You should be able to put in place what you are describing as "properly" (no biting, no jumping, no pulling and no need for treats to walk ok) well before she is two. But sometimes people mean that the dog should ALWAYS be right by their side with its attention always locked on them--and that won't happen for a long time. And is hardly fair to ask of the dog anyway, when you are out for a casual walk. The dog needs to be able to explore the world too--just in a controlled fashion.

I only ask for a sit before we cross the street, for example. Other than that, all I want is a pause until I start moving again. The dog can sniff and move around so long as he doesn't pull (and so long as he goes along with me if I want to move on, without pulling to get that last sniff in.)

But consistency--every time no matter what the distraction...Squirrel! Deer! Barking dog in their face!...without breaking the controlled walk (sudden pulling, barking, perhaps even lunging after the "distraction") may be a long time coming.
 

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With my boy Hoss 2 years before obidient on leash.
‘By two years he understood my expectation s, but it took repetition to get us to this level of loose leash.
‘Meanwhile for you baby steps while noting small improvements Along the way.
‘Oh…..when you mention bitchy.
Suggestion if applicable never let your dog win while in a training session……..if they get their way……oh boy they will take advantage of what works for them…..smart little pups.
Bitchy…maybe means tired puppy brain and needs a break from training sooner.}
‘If so..so be the break …..but at the humans command.
Work pup for a moment longer and then human issues the take a break command.
Be loving yet firm in training sessions.
Few words spoken.
Serious atmosphere.
Praise when pup obeys through using a single sound “YEP” or touch “rub cheek or ear lightly”.
Jut something that sends a message to pup…….”Yeah, that’s what the human wanted me to do”……
‘Dogs are reading us all the time……smile at your dog for a job well done.
Guide your dogs behavior via sounds that you make.
‘When Hoss was leash training …..when he pulled ….I tapped my leg………if leash remain tight I turned directions on him.
I used the tapping of my leg so consistently eventually as he pulled on the leash…..I would tap my leg …..and Hoss would self correct.
Wa La…….no turning necessary ……..Hoss self correcting.
Dogs want to move forward and they figure out what works Through repetition.
 

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My question would be, how are you training her to walk nicely? Walking nicely on a loose leash isn't a skill that comes naturally to a lot of dogs, and I find it doesn't come naturally to this breed.
 

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My question would be, how are you training her to walk nicely? Walking nicely on a loose leash isn't a skill that comes naturally to a lot of dogs, and I find it doesn't come naturally to this breed.
I'll agree 100% with that statement!

I'm currently "retraining" 7 mo. Neo to walk on leash in heel and loose configuations. He's over 60 lb. now and becoming very strong. He does perfect heels - walking, stopping, turning in house, garage or backyard, and front yard. But when going down street, all bets are off. We just started Intro Obedience last Thursday and this week's homework was to practice the leash walking skills. Before the class we were using the prong collar for last month, along with a JK9 harness, with double ended leash. He was doing well walking loose with this configuration, but was not staying beside me. Stops when I stop, etc, just used to walking fast, in front. If he's energetic on at beginning of walk, both leash ends on prong collar. New class requires flat or Martingale collars and he pull like crazy on the MG collar when he wants to go, except if continuous treats offered.

I feel like the only progress we make is with the prong collar, which he respects. Even still, Neo gets frustrated after training session on sidewalk, not being able to progess ahead on his normal walk. He'll show his frustration by sitting on grass or trying to turn around and grab the leash. I'm trying to conduct training sessions in short segments to avoid this. I think he misses his daily round the block/ neighborhood walks we did before the formal class training started.

In addition to the leash walking issue, Neo is becoming increasingly leash reactive to strange dogs and even some he knows and has walked with many times, barking up a storm and wanting to lunge at a distance. I think it's related to his frustration of not being able to walk neighborhood, like normal. Hard to snap him out of the trance, but I'm carrying bacon pieces now for this, as he is extremely food motivated. On top of this his prey drive is starting to kick in, mainly in our front yard with squirrels.

I tried a short traffic lead on his harness top ring to keep him next to me and Neo does great with this configuration. It's what I used for previous male Dobe, Spock, for his Therapy Dog visits and he was successfully evaluated a second time with this setup. Spock was never a great loose leash walker. I will discuss with instructor tonight about Neo's issues.

Spock Therapy Visit Harness & Traffic Lead

Dog Vertebrate Dog breed Carnivore Collar



Neo FIrst Time On "Spock's Rock" - On Long Walk

Dog Tire Wheel Dog breed Carnivore
 
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