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u mad?
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They have a section on what makes them different (and I'm sure in their minds what makes them good) but I see no mention of health testing other than the dogs being vWD clear and the dogs don't seem titled. It's worth calling or emailing them and asking but from the site alone it's not a breeder that I would go to. If I remember right you started a thread where some great breeders were mentioned, have you looked into them yet?

Disclaimer: I"m in class right now so I just skimmed the site and may have missed something.
 

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Get the bunnies!
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Just checked out their website, they claim "excellent bloodlines" on their dogs, but looking at the pedigrees they have posted on there, there is NOTHING even the slightest bite noteworthy about those pedigrees, except of course for the Kimbertal dogs in there, which is NOT a good thing.

Their dog Isabelle is supposedly from show lines, but if you read the pedigree there are no champions in there, and the breeder of Isabelle is "Margo Richards"- have a search for her on the forum and you'll be in for some uhh interesting reading.

Nothing about health testing that I can see, I would steer well clear of this "breeder"
 

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Looks like just another BYB'er, who does not title or health test their dogs, to me. Yet they somehow produce great "family pets".
 

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Mo's Mom
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have looked at them, and really liked what I saw... and although I understand that breeding, raising, health testing, and taking care of a litter of puppies is not cheap, I cannot justify paying $2000 (or more) for a dog that I am going to alter and never breed, especially in cases where they do not come docked or with any vet care. I paid less than that for my first car... I have been doing research on the breed and what to expect when buying, and I know that there are health tested, pet quality dobermans for less than that... Money is not a problem, I just cannot personally imagine spending that much on an altered animal. We are not looking to spend more than $1500, and I am more than confident we will be able to find a good breeder at this cost or less (through speaking with other happy doberman owners)
 

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u mad?
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There are reputable, ethical breeders who sell pet quality dogs between $1200 and $1500.

Otherwise, if money isn't an issue but you don't want to pay the prices of a reputable breeder then please consider opening your home to one of the MANY homeless dobes in shelters.
 

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Mo's Mom
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The two dogs that inspired me to bring a doberman into my home were 2 HUGE male dobermans my mother rescued when I was a child... I would love to rescure a dog in need. But i have a growing family, and I am a strong believer in starting socializing from a young age. I want to be able to make sure my dog is able to handle every situation he may be exposed to in my life... and so we have decided that a young puppy would be best for us. I am sure that once we have the one, there will be more to come, and perhaps then, a rescue dog would be our best bet.
 

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I have looked at them, and really liked what I saw... and although I understand that breeding, raising, health testing, and taking care of a litter of puppies is not cheap, I cannot justify paying $2000 (or more) for a dog that I am going to alter and never breed, especially in cases where they do not come docked or with any vet care. I paid less than that for my first car... I have been doing research on the breed and what to expect when buying, and I know that there are health tested, pet quality dobermans for less than that... Money is not a problem, I just cannot personally imagine spending that much on an altered animal. We are not looking to spend more than $1500, and I am more than confident we will be able to find a good breeder at this cost or less (through speaking with other happy doberman owners)
A dog from a good breeder will come with its first shots, and its ears cropped for 1,500-2,000, along with coming from proven quality and health tested parents. Also, you have better odds of getting a dog with a good temperament since they come from a ethical breeder who only breeds the best, and the parents have gone through lots of training and being in all kinds of environments from getting their titles.

If you save money by spending 1,500 on an uncropped dog from questionable breeders, only to have to pay $3-500 on an ear crop and aftercare, how much are you really saving in the end??
 

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The two dogs that inspired me to bring a doberman into my home were 2 HUGE male dobermans my mother rescued when I was a child... I would love to rescure a dog in need. But i have a growing family, and I am a strong believer in starting socializing from a young age. I want to be able to make sure my dog is able to handle every situation he may be exposed to in my life... and so we have decided that a young puppy would be best for us. I am sure that once we have the one, there will be more to come, and perhaps then, a rescue dog would be our best bet.
I totally get not wanting to drop 1500-2000 on a well bred puppy. In that case, why not rescue? Rescues have young puppies on a regular basis from terrible people who dump them. A rescue puppy will have the same breeding behind it as a BYB puppy so instead of lining the pocket of a greeder who abuses the uterus of their poor bitches, give a second chance to a pup from a local rescue.

Don't think there are puppies?? There ARE! Sometimes you may have to wait a month or two, but it is far better than to support BYB practices.
 

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Mo's Mom
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Do I have to worry about health issues with a rescue puppy?

I have spoken with plenty of people who have happy, healthy, well temepered, OLD dogs... and they said paying $2000 for a HEALTHY AND SOUND dog is not nec.
$1200 to $1500 is what we expected to spend on just the puppy, and we understand the other costs... this is not our first dog, just our first doberman.
 

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u mad?
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Not to mention that not all dobies in rescue were dumped for behavioral issues or any issues at all. Sometimes things happen and the owner can't keep the dog (death, deployment, loss of a job, new spouse or kid with allergies) and so a great dog will end up needing a new home.
 

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Not to mention that not all dobies in rescue were dumped for behavioral issues or any issues at all. Sometimes things happen and the owner can't keep the dog (death, deployment, loss of a job, new spouse or kid with allergies) and so a great dog will end up needing a new home.
Agreed. I was speaking specifically to puppies. Most are breeder dumps that didn't sell quick enough.

I'm lucky enough to have one of those. Dumped her lil runt butt in a ditch. Worst thing they could do as people, best thing that could have happened to Mac. :)
 

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Mo's Mom
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The male she is breeding with is not her dog, and has been totally health tested. The bitch she is breeding with this year will be the first time she has had a litter... and she has been tested and cleared for everything except OFA...which is being done in June before she is bred. I am not overly concerned with having champions in the bloodlines, though the father does. And from what I understand, many of the puppies she has had in the past ARE titled and compete in many different arenas.
Does that sound better... her website has not been updated in a VERY long time...
 

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Totally byb pedigrees - would love to see full body pictures of these dogs.... but then again, maybe not!
 

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Holier Than Now
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I totally get not wanting to drop 1500-2000 on a well bred puppy. In that case, why not rescue? Rescues have young puppies on a regular basis from terrible people who dump them. A rescue puppy will have the same breeding behind it as a BYB puppy so instead of lining the pocket of a greeder who abuses the uterus of their poor bitches, give a second chance to a pup from a local rescue.

Don't think there are puppies?? There ARE! Sometimes you may have to wait a month or two, but it is far better than to support BYB practices.
Bears repeating.

The male she is breeding with is not her dog, and has been totally health tested. The bitch she is breeding with this year will be the first time she has had a litter... and she has been tested and cleared for everything except OFA...which is being done in June before she is bred. I am not overly concerned with having champions in the bloodlines, though the father does. And from what I understand, many of the puppies she has had in the past ARE titled and compete in many different arenas.
Does that sound better... her website has not been updated in a VERY long time...
Due respect, your post demonstrates just how much more research is needed, for you to make a fully-informed and ethical consumer decision.

Please, this decision will affect your entire family for (hopefully) at least the next decade, as well as having an impact on the shelter dogs in your area--so please choose wisely.
 
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Do you know the registered names of the sire and dam? How old are they?

You said the dogs have been tested and cleared for everything. Did she tell you "everything" or did you ask specifically about all the tests you know of?

@Fitzmar: Here's a link to the advertising picture posted for the sire of the last litter.
Rufus
 

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Do you know the registered names of the sire and dam? How old are they?

You said the dogs have been tested and cleared for everything. Did she tell you "everything" or did you ask specifically about all the tests you know of?

@Fitzmar: Here's a link to the advertising picture posted for the sire of the last litter.
Rufus
Holy Cr*p!! If that picture of a dog behind a wire fence does not scream BYBER, I don't know what would!!!!! Makes me want to cry.

:ranting2:
 
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