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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys sorry to start a new thread but all that i have found on here dont seem to have the condition as bad as dex so......

So i will start from the beginning....

I was looking for a dog online on wednesday and i found someone i know selling a dobey pup so i enquired and he told me the pup was to be sold for £50 because of a bad paw something didnt seem right so i went to see the dog wednesday night and noticed his paw was really bad and the story i was given was............he had a accident at 8 weeks tearing a tendon and it will go back to normal in time???? pffft ok .......when i felt his wrist joint i noticed at maximum bend his tendon was tight so i new something was wrong so i bought him and took him to the vets the next morning......

I arrived at the vets and after waiting for awhile they told me it could be a few things like it could have been a birth deformitie..the tendon could have torn and not healed correctly and finally the bones may not have developed correctly....my options 1. take him back and get me money back (i didnt trust this option) 2. pay thousands of pounds in vet treatment including surgery 3. put him down to end suffering i believe he doesnt have as hes clearly not in pain.

so i brought him home gutted they wouldnt help me any further so i reasearched all night to find knuckling over now it seems hes at a servere point and clear the people before me didnt take care of this when it occured so it has gotton worse....

Dexter is 14 weeks old and has now been put on a diet consiting of 28% protien and 18% fat as i found that his diet will help him and vitamin C tablets but i feel this is not enough.....

can anyone advise what to do i would be gutted if he has to suffer to get right and want to see him walking properly..

all help will be much appreciated

Thanks in advance
Spike and D

This is at maximum flex



Front of paw the wound is clean regularly
 

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Poor pup :( the choice is yours. Since the is not quite sure what it is, you should start off by ordering some X-rays and ultra sound. X rays will tell you of any bony involvement, and ultrasound will pick out lesions in the soft tissue.

There can be many diagnoses for a dog knuckling over, and it's important to find out what is going on. There are many options of treatments if it's soft tissue, bone, or both.

I wish you the best, give him lots of love and cuddles :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
no specialist as of yet we were only at the vets yesterday......

we were thinking of keeping on his new diet for 14days to see if theres and improvment with physio to see if there is any improvement before we go back and want to be armed with enough info as poss to aviod any attempts by them to brush us off again.

Spike n D
 

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no specialist as of yet we were only at the vets yesterday......

we were thinking of keeping on his new diet for 14days to see if theres and improvment with physio to see if there is any improvement before we go back and want to be armed with enough info as poss to aviod any attempts by them to brush us off again.

Spike n D
It is very tempting to do the wait and see approach, but if you think it's nutritional, get blood pulled to confirm it, so your not losing precious time. It's best you find a Dx first and then apply a treatment. The longer you wait, the worse your puppy is going to get, and harder to treat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It is very tempting to do the wait and see approach, but if you think it's nutritional, get blood pulled to confirm it, so your not losing precious time. It's best you find a Dx first and then apply a treatment. The longer you wait, the worse your puppy is going to get, and harder to treat.
True the blood idea is great and shall be done infact we shall be takin him to a better vet monday and see whats what...

In the mean time we would like to gather as much info as possible so if you have any ideas what it could be or any other things to try would be great.

Spike n D
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I forgot to mention that D's wrist wont bend out due to the tendon becoing tight at the angle his foots at could it be that his tendon didnt develop like his bones and muscles did i have felt both legs joints tendons etc and both feel exactly the same only difference being the tendon in his right leg is extremely tight at his full flex and i do work on closing it and opening it regularly throughout the day......

to sum up (i am no vet just guessing) but it seems his foot is fine but his wrist lower tendon has grown shorter if this is th case would a proper diet rectify this problem or would it need to be cut and lengthend???

thanks

Spike n D
 

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I forgot to mention that D's wrist wont bend out due to the tendon becoing tight at the angle his foots at could it be that his tendon didnt develop like his bones and muscles did i have felt both legs joints tendons etc and both feel exactly the same only difference being the tendon in his right leg is extremely tight at his full flex and i do work on closing it and opening it regularly throughout the day......

to sum up (i am no vet just guessing) but it seems his foot is fine but his wrist lower tendon has grown shorter if this is th case would a proper diet rectify this problem or would it need to be cut and lengthend???

thanks

Spike n D
Even if it was just the DDF or the SDF severely contracted, there are several ways it can get that way, and each have a different treatment option.

One is thru trauma, and excess scar tissue. Tx for this is likely laser therapy along with hydrotherapy, massage, and physiotherapy. Vets can do surgery and lengthen the tendon, but would often try the other route first.

The other could be a bony growth at the musculotendinous junction, excess calcium deposit within the tendon. Not much you can do here, except amputate.

It could be diet deficiency. correct diet and maybe a leg brace will help the limb straighten.

Next could be a congenital defect. Amputate.

A slim chance, but not ruled out, you could have osteo pathologies such as DJD, OCD, osselets, fractures, loss of bone density, and the list goes on. Treatment for this varies.

So as you can see, there is not much you can do until the vet rules out possible pathologies and hones in one one diagnoses.

What your doing so far is great, and Im happy you are taking this seriously and giving her the vet care that she needs. Good luck and keep us posted!
 

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Try looking up The Great Dane Lady and see if you think you might want to follow her program for severe knuckling over. I would post the link, but on phone and cant. She has a picture of a pup that is probably worse than your pup. She suggests lower protein than what you have, I believe. Good luck and I hope you get him fixed. But man, I wouldnt have bought that puppy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Try looking up The Great Dane Lady and see if you think you might want to follow her program for severe knuckling over. I would post the link, but on phone and cant. She has a picture of a pup that is probably worse than your pup. She suggests lower protein than what you have, I believe. Good luck and I hope you get him fixed. But man, I wouldnt have bought that puppy.
I have checked her site and am thinking of trying it thanks...
as for wouldnt buy the pup i wasnt prepared to let him be sold to another person who may not try to help him he has already been passed around with no help.
In all fairness i am glad i did hes a great pup and deserves a chance and if i didnt try for him the next might have just ended his life, money is nothing to me its the qaulity of life i am trying to give that means more....:)
 

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I have checked her site and am thinking of trying it thanks...
as for wouldnt buy the pup i wasnt prepared to let him be sold to another person who may not try to help him he has already been passed around with no help.
In all fairness i am glad i did hes a great pup and deserves a chance and if i didnt try for him the next might have just ended his life, money is nothing to me its the qaulity of life i am trying to give that means more....:)
I understand your concern for this dog and you feeling that you're the one that is best to help him, but what's the story on this dog? The person you bought him from, how did they acquire the dog? Are any others in the litter affected?
 

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aww poor little pup. I know how you feel, my Isis went through her knuckling over stage. I actually started a thread you might could check it out, you might find some helpful things on it. What I did was change her diet and not let her exercise to much. I put her on Wellness Complete (purple bag), it has 21% protein I believe. I limited her treats to very few. She is doing good now. Her liter mate was a lot worse than her so his mom got braces for him and he improved a lot. Maybe this will help you out. Good luck:)
 

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Hi Dexter,

My dog, Axel, is dobbie luv's dog's littermate. Axel had significant knuckling over and we went to an orthopedic specialist and physical therapist in addition to three regular vets. The link to the thread where we've documented progress with pictures is here:

http://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-corner/61357-what-do-about-knuckling-over.html

I have researched the bejeezus out of carpal flexural deformity and this is what is working for Axel, who is still recovering at 17 weeks but has seen TONS of progress:

1. Get him on a lower protein food, no more than 23% protein. You want to grow him slowly. Be sure to verify any treats or snacks you give him is low protein as well.

2. Limit his food to 3 small portions adding up to about 2 (maybe 2.5) cups throughout the day at 14 weeks. You don't want to feed him so much that you get that swollen puppy belly look. You want to keep him slim. The less weight he has to support with his legs the better.

3. Until his legs are mostly standing straight, keep his activity to a minimum. Crate him most of the day, except for potty and food if you have to. This won't last forever, but is necessary for a little while.

4. MOST DEFINITELY get DogLeggs carpal supports for your puppy. They have made all the difference for Axel. His legs kept getting worse and worse until he started wearing these. They require a vet's prescription, and you can get them in the UK. Pay for the interior lining and the extra support strap for each leg. They cost me about a total $120USD. The puppy doesn't have to wear them while he's sleeping, so that's nice. They don't cause sores, either. Plus you can machine wash them. Carpal Support | DogLeggs Theraputic and Rehabilitative Products

5. Do stretches on your dog's legs several times a day. Little by little you want to stretch out his legs so they will stand correctly. Take one of his front legs in your hands. Hold it as straight as possible and gently push up on his paws so they are in a position similar to how they would be if he were standing. If they're not stretching all the way now, don't worry, he can get there with diligence.

Definitely get X-rays of the legs and have an orthopedic specialist look at them to make sure there's no permanent damage to the growth plates. At 14 weeks, I think he's still savable. Don't give up just yet.

It might take a couple weeks to see serious improvement, but once you get the carpal supports and do the stretches, the improvements will start coming quickly and you'll see a visible difference quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey guys thanks for your helpful posts.....
As for background on dex all what i put in the first pot is all i know..

We do a work out daily but trying to stop him from moving around so much is hard he bounces around jumps on and off the couch and will go mad if hes not by ur side so difficult...

he is due for a vet trip to have the xrays done.....and food has been cut to 22% in total

he seems to be doing well but as of yet no improvement at all as far as i can see.

we wont give up tho.

thanks again
 

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Hey guys thanks for your helpful posts.....
As for background on dex all what i put in the first pot is all i know..

We do a work out daily but trying to stop him from moving around so much is hard he bounces around jumps on and off the couch and will go mad if hes not by ur side so difficult...

he is due for a vet trip to have the xrays done.....and food has been cut to 22% in total

he seems to be doing well but as of yet no improvement at all as far as i can see.

we wont give up tho.

thanks again
Axel complained about the being crated, too. You're doing it for his good though. I gave him bones to chew on and toys to play with to help ease the frustration. Putting a space heater by his bed helped him feel comfy warm to sleep better, too.

The idea on limiting the activity is to prevent high impact on his legs, such as long walks, running, and jumping.
 

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Hi Dexter,
We are having the same problem with our 16 week old puppy. Her name is Blu. The issue started gradually about 6-8weeks ago. Unlike many of the other cases in this thread, only one of her front paws is affected. We took her to the vet initially and we were told that exercise and stretching the paw will fix the problem but that didn't help. We took her back this week and the vet took X-rays and determined that she has a contracting tendon. He told us to keep exercising and streching the paw, since surgery would be a last resort. We feel like we are not doing enough and the directions he gave us (like exercising) seem to conflict what others suggest on this forum. Its really hard to see her walking with so much difficulty although she is not in pain. Were you able to correct the problem for your puppy? If so how?

Regards,
Tenny
 

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Hi Dexter,
We are having the same problem with our 16 week old puppy. Her name is Blu. The issue started gradually about 6-8weeks ago. Unlike many of the other cases in this thread, only one of her front paws is affected. We took her to the vet initially and we were told that exercise and stretching the paw will fix the problem but that didn't help. We took her back this week and the vet took X-rays and determined that she has a contracting tendon. He told us to keep exercising and streching the paw, since surgery would be a last resort. We feel like we are not doing enough and the directions he gave us (like exercising) seem to conflict what others suggest on this forum. Its really hard to see her walking with so much difficulty although she is not in pain. Were you able to correct the problem for your puppy? If so how?

Regards,
Tenny
We did the stretching exercises with Isis but we limited her play time. Like not to much running around and jumping. When we took her outside we kept her on a leash so she couldn't do to much running. She is fine now and haven't had any problems since then. If you haven't changed the dog food to a lower protein I would do that as soon as you can. I hope everything turns out ok for you. :)
 

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Worse case scenario and nothing helps, having the leg removed would be an option.

Hopefully it wont come to that, but that might be a better solution than having to worry about a wound infection.
 
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