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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can we have an update on Moses? Has he been to a vet? Bloodwork done? Is he putting on some weight?

We are truley concerned about him.
 

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Hi guys

I really don't know what all the fuss is about???

Moses is doing great and making steady progress....I decided to stop giving updates because everyone wants to jump down my throat and critisize so I was gonna wait until he's filled out considerably before I posted another update if at all...I wish I never shared my rescue stuff because it's kinda left me with a sour taste in my mouth because me and my family really do put a lot of love into the dobes we have and we do everything out of our own pocket, we don't get any donations or any help....the only thing I got out of it was to be able to post/share the progress the guys make at this forum!!!!...but I regret starting that now.

As far as Vets go.... I use natural herbs and remedies coupled with a raw diet....to cut my costs down I try to rescue the dogs that have had all their tests done already....plus I avoid rescueing the really sick dogs because I simply don't have the resourses/money to be getting into debt with vet bills, etc like so many other rescues do, I know a woman that rescues all animals/wildlife and she is currently owes her vet $4000....so basically if a dog is sickly and I don't think I can get a dog well by myself....I don't get him/her....this may sound mean but it's the sad story of rescue I can only work with what I have and I cannot save them all....

Anyway...

He's noticably gaining weight now, his chest is wider and his green goo has gone, his poop is solid and he urinates often, right now he's getting a good clean out and it's doing him the world of good, he started eating regularly about a week ago as he had stopped eating for a whole week before that....I wasn't worried because I've seen this many times when dogs get sick...

Now he's eating meat AND bones and is probably eating as much as Luke is but spread out through the day...the amount he's eating is increaseing but I'm not gonna rush it...You guys don't see it but he has come such a long way....and he was so depressed when he first came, now he is alert and follows me around the house....he's also been yipping and yapping when he's in his crate becuase he wants to be out with us, which is great to see because I know he still is guarded emotionally but again great strides have been made and his whole facial expression has changed , his eye's are rounded and wide open now and he now will look me directly in the eye's which is something he would never do...when we go walking he keeps up a steady trot which is also something he would never do....

No he's not gonna gain weight as fast as he would if he was on kibble or cooked foods but on raw he's gonna get a good clean out and all the nutrients he needs....I have complete faith in this because I've been a Fruitarian for the past 11 years....so as far as the raw stuff goes I know what I'm doing!!!....but you can go ahead and doubt me if you like...

Moses is definately a young boy..I would say he's around two years old instead of five....he's loving and very affectionate and luckily is still ready to give love....the whole family loves him...

As far as exercise goes everything is getting increased as I wanna slowly build up his strength and I've already started his training...he can walk/trot well on a leash and can now sit on command he can nearly go into the down position on command but hasn't grasped that yet....He doesn't like crates and wants to be with us but it's now time he got crate trained now too...I'm also training him to answer to his name too.

I'm aware that most of you think I'm some fly by night dude/rescuer that hasn't got a clue but I'm taking good care of all the Dobies here and I do know what I'm doing....

UPDATE: As I was typing this out Moses was laying on the sofa ....I noticed that all the neighbourhood dogs were barking, they have been barking a while and this time it sounded closer to home....I went to see what was going on ....well two stray pitbulls were at the door barking up a storm at the other dogs next door....I threw some water at them and chased them off and as I turned to come back to the house who was behind me with his hair on his back standing on end...little Moses!.....I had to laugh but I was proud of him....anyway I'll definatly be posting a pic when he is fully up to par after that I'll probably not beposting here again..

Be good!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well Kinteet, I'm sorry you think I am making a fuss over this, but you posted pictures of a severely mal nourished Doberman telling us about his green poo and you are giving herbs.

I think it is a rare person that wouldn't take a dog like Moses to a vet and you never mentioned he had been to one. Herbs are good and fine in some cases, but traditional vet medicine is needed also at times. Not all dogs can be cured by a colon cleanse.

I am not over reacting. I can guarentee you had moses been to a traditional vet, the first thing they would have done was hook him up to IV fluids and try to get him to eat a good quality kibble.

Raw is fine, but kibble is also sometimes needed.

I was only concerned about Moses. The first pictures you posted he was very skinny, then the next pictures he was in even worse shape. Any person would have to wonder if he was eating a good balanced diet why he was loosing weight. And sometimes underlying medical problems could prevent him from gaining that is why I wanted to know if he had been to a vet.

Lots of people rescue dogs and take them to a vet. I just did and my girl was only 10 lbs underweight. I knew she had been vetted, but I still took her to mine just to make sure all was ok. I don't see anything fussy about that. I see it as responsible.
 

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CoAl-s-Mom said:
Well Kinteet, I'm sorry you think I am making a fuss over this, but you posted pictures of a severely mal nourished Doberman telling us about his green poo and you are giving herbs.

I think it is a rare person that wouldn't take a dog like Moses to a vet and you never mentioned he had been to one. Herbs are good and fine in some cases, but traditional vet medicine is needed also at times. Not all dogs can be cured by a colon cleanse.

I am not over reacting. I can guarentee you had moses been to a traditional vet, the first thing they would have done was hook him up to IV fluids and try to get him to eat a good quality kibble.

Raw is fine, but kibble is also sometimes needed.

I was only concerned about Moses. The first pictures you posted he was very skinny, then the next pictures he was in even worse shape. Any person would have to wonder if he was eating a good balanced diet why he was loosing weight. And sometimes underlying medical problems could prevent him from gaining that is why I wanted to know if he had been to a vet.

Lots of people rescue dogs and take them to a vet. I just did and my girl was only 10 lbs underweight. I knew she had been vetted, but I still took her to mine just to make sure all was ok. I don't see anything fussy about that. I see it as responsible.
I agree. I think that your heart is good and that you truly do care about the dogs you rescue. Holistic food & herbs are good things, but do not replace traditional vet care. I think that if this is a dog you are looking to place in a new home, you owe it to the future owners to vet the dog throughly.
 

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I think if you are going to rescue then you must do it 100%. That means that when a dog needs to see a vet you just do it! This dog could be full of parasities and you will never know because he never had a fecal done.

I understand that vet's are expensive and you just want to help the dogs. I think you are wonderful for doing that...but like velmadobe said you owe it to the future owners to have this dog fully examined.

I think feeding raw, herbs, etc. are wonderful but should be used in conjuction with main stream veterinary care. Do you have any degree's in nutrition or animal care ? I don't think anyone should be playing doctor with their dogs it's just to risky. Anyway's good luck I hope for Moses sake he is o.k. and comes through this well. :)
 

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I never saw the photos of him after you had him for at least a week till today. I was shocked to say the least. In my limited experience with rescue, starved dogs gain weight rapidly when they start eating a good diet, and if they don't then there is an underlying health issue that is keeping them from gaining.

This is a picture of my foster boy Gabe when he first came into rescue he was 21 pounds at 7 months:



Here he a week later:


And here he is after 2 weeks in rescue. You can visibly see the progress. He was still a skeleton, but he had already gained over 10 pounds in just 2 weeks.



I fed him a high quality puppy kibble mixed 1/2 with noodles, low sodium chicken broth, and chicken. 4x a day.

He spent his first week in rescue at a vets office on IV's. Vet care was a must with him. All in all, he gained over 30 pounds in the 3 months I had him. By the end, I had him weaned to a good quality kibble.
 

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Kinteet, good for you for doing the best you can for Moses. Sounds like he's improved tremendously both physically and emotionally under your care. Here's hoping he continues to thrive. I for one hope you will stay on and keep us posted beyond a month's time. Good luck and continued success.
 

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OMG Its been along time since I have seen those pics Velmadobe and it just makes me cry when I think about how someone could let that happen to that little boy. How is he doing by the way?
 

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PeeWeesMama said:
OMG Its been along time since I have seen those pics Velmadobe and it just makes me cry when I think about how someone could let that happen to that little boy. How is he doing by the way?
As far as I know, Gabe is fine. We don't get together in the summer so I will not see him till sometime in September.
 

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velmadobe said:
I never saw the photos of him after you had him for at least a week till today. I was shocked to say the least. In my limited experience with rescue, starved dogs gain weight rapidly when they start eating a good diet, and if they don't then there is an underlying health issue that is keeping them from gaining.

This is a picture of my foster boy Gabe when he first came into rescue he was 21 pounds at 7 months:



Here he a week later:


And here he is after 2 weeks in rescue. You can visibly see the progress. He was still a skeleton, but he had already gained over 10 pounds in just 2 weeks.



I fed him a high quality puppy kibble mixed 1/2 with noodles, low sodium chicken broth, and chicken. 4x a day.

He spent his first week in rescue at a vets office on IV's. Vet care was a must with him. All in all, he gained over 30 pounds in the 3 months I had him. By the end, I had him weaned to a good quality kibble.
wow poor little guy!!!! Do you know how he is doing now? Did he get adopted :)
 

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What makes me sit and cry is who could be so cruel as to let a any dog get into that condition,just depresses me and angers me at the same time.
:rant:

:emo11:
 

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see, the good thing is that I can look at those pictures of Gabe and see the dog he has become........a full sized Kimbertal boy..... he just kept growing well past when most dogs would have stopped till he got to his oversized Kimbertal heritage. He has an excellent home and his owner goes to the same obedience class so I get to see him. If you know what to look for, you can see where the starvation affected his bones and his overall structure.

His owner never fails to tease me about his size because we told her he would not get that big because of the starvation stunting his growth.......fat lot we knew - LOL - he just kept growing till he was done :)
 

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Kinteet,
You don't know what all the fuss is about???? Nobody here is judging you, nobody here is condemning you. Fact is, you came here, you've asked questions that are considered by some to be common sense in the Doberman world (nothing wrong with asking if you don't know, don't get me wrong) but at the same time, you are also rescuing dogs that are in need of medical help. If you don't know the difference between a red and a fawn (again, nothing wrong with that, you don't know unless you ask) then it's to be understood that some of us (will include myself) wonder if you can comprehend the difference between a dog that's just skinny and needs some food and one that is severely emaciated and in need of vet care.
You've said things like "weight gain is the last of my worries" - No, it should be your first concern! I hope that the pictures Velmadobe posted will reassure in your mind that there are people here that know what they're talking about, that have walked in your shoes where the dogs are concerned. All the fuss is about the dogs!
You claim to be a rescue - That is awesome! I think everyone here has rescued and fostered or kept a dog at one point in their life and all of us wish we could do more. I'm sorry that you feel overly criticized but again we all are concerned about the dog.
I feed raw occassionally and am a apsiring vegetarian (I'm really trying) but and that's a big BUT sometimes traditional medicines and foods are needed.
Last term, I did a paper on an abuse/neglect case that happened a few years ago. 6 month old Woyah Andressohn starved to death and weighed around 7 pounds at her time of death. Her vegan parents opted for alternative medicines and inadvertantly killed their daughter because they were so convicted in their "natural beliefs". I do not believe these people, her parents, were monsters who wanted their baby dead - I do believe that if they had an open mind to traditional medicines their daughter would be alive today. Here's the case if you or anyone is interested in it: http://www.courttv.com/trials/andressohn/101805_background_ctv.html#continue
I do not write this to chase you off the board, I do not write this to make you feel badly or judged. I write this in an effort to explain what "all the fuss is about".
Please keep in mind that the only thing we have to base our opinions/beliefs on are what you tell us and even more profound is what you show us. The latest pics of Moses are of a dog (IMO and I know I'm not alone) that needs to be seen by a Vet. Nobody here doubts your intentions but good intentions only get you so far.


*** Edited to include ***

I understand that you are trying to help this guy and that your funds are limited. You've saved this kid already from a kill shelter, if it weren't for you, he wouldn't have the chance he has now. BUT, I think you should seriously consider contacting a Dobe rescue (tell us where you are and we can help you find one) OR Special Needs Dobermans, an organization that solicits donations to help pay the vet bills of Dobes in need: http://www.doberman911.org/
 

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Kinteet,
We are not here to judge you and down you. We are thinking for the dogs. I think that it is great that you open your home and heart to animals in need and try to help them out. Not everyone can do this. It is a sad world out there that people can do the things that they do to their "beloved" animals. Rescue work is not a cheap endeavor. The reasons why rescues ask for donations all of the time. Appropriate vet care is needed for all of animals to make sure that they are up to par. If the owner can let them look like that, do you really think that they took them to the vet for check-ups? One of my cats came from rescue yet still came home with worms. If I did not take him to the vet to get them found, my other animals would have probably contracted them. Think of what you might bring into your home. People are here to support eachother and answer questions, as they have for you. No matter how little. And there are a lot of people who have dealt with rescue. Use them as a tool to help. But please don't ignore the use of modern medicine because of the cost of it. We don't have x-ray vision to see problem. It is like saying my dog has a broken leg and I think I will splint it myself and see how it will heal. I have spent a lot of money on animals. I don't regret any of it. I will put their needs before mine. I took in a doberboy once from a lady who could no longer afford him. He was starved beyond belief. After a check-up and a few weeks of good kibble, he was right as rain. He ended up going to a great home in the country. Please don't take offense to this. I think you are doing a great thing and have a kind heart. But sometimes we need to open our eyes a little.
 

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Maybe the Doberman Rescue of North Texas could help you with the Dobes if you need help or know of some that need to be placed asap that are in kill shelters. They are an active Dobe rescue group that is in your area. I agree that the dog would benefit from seeing a vet.
http://www.dobermanrescue.org/index.html
 

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Take this how you will, but even if your intentions are good, you dont take on animals you cant care for. That is how they get into rescue in the first place. Being a "rescue" you should be prepared to cover the medical expenses and basic needs for the animals you take in. And you dont keep looking for more dobermans to bring home. I also think that you owe it to the dog that you already had to make sure that he is not put at risk. IMO, What you are doing is borderline neglect.

Here is the link to the doberman rescue in Dallas/Fort Worth.
http://www.dobermanrescue.org/index.html
 

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dobesanddragons said:
Maybe the Doberman Rescue of North Texas could help you with the Dobes if you need help or know of some that need to be placed asap that are in kill shelters. They are an active Dobe rescue group that is in your area.
We must have been posting at the same time!
 
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