I just noticed in another post something about Kimbertal being bad. Are they? Whats wrong with them?
LOL, one BIG reason they're on that bandwagon is because no American breeder would consider selling them a champion male to use in their "stud force" for their mill. They used to place ads in Doberman magazines here offering to buy champion males, they used to have their employees try to buy champion males for them on the sly.dobebug said:Recently they have jumped on the European Dobes are better bandwagon and have been importing males to use at stud. At least one of them is from one of the biggest of the Euro puppymills.
I'm not trying to defend this kennel - just an observation since i decided to check out their website. It says they use females owned by customers for breeding purposes. Each female is bred twice and then retired.dobebug said:Kimbertal has been around longer than I have (and I got my first Dobe in 1959 and have been showing dogs since 1960) and they have ALWAYS been a puppymill. The rescues in their part of the world are full of Kimbertal discards.
Blitzter said:Give you a clue bud, I have had Dobies for 28 years and I have a very good clue as to what a great Dobe is and should look like. The thing I and others care about is what K'tal does, is because they are low class puppy millers out to make a buck off their dogs. They mass breed dogs, no health testing, oversized. And no a good kennel is not about making money, it's about the dogs health, the breed standard, health testing and trying to better the breed, k'tal is in it for the money and that's all! ''A bundel of dogs die of old age every year and need replaced or the breed would die out'' That make no logic! Yes dogs die every day, in shelters on the streets, of old age and health problems, but buying and supporting puppy millers like k'tal and hoh is just adding to the problem, not helping to fix the problems. What's there to be jealous about, because I won't support the likes of k'tal and hoh because of what they do to the breed I love? As for a dobe looking like a greyhound, I think you need to take a year or two and study the breed standard and learn more about the Doberman, that and find reputatable breeders. Not puppy millers like k'tal and hoh!
Not to mention that the quality of some of those bitches is worse than dismal. At our last neighborhood, a family around the corner had one of those Kimbertal "brood bitches": to say that she did not meet the standard would be an understatement. Her first litter all died and their vet stated that she needed to be spayed and should never be bred again. In order to save her life and be able to keep her, they had to pay Kimbertal $1200 or Kimbertal would have taken her back and bred her against the advice of the vet. She probably weighed over 100lbs and plenty of it was fat. Her nails were talons and she was never exercised.......they had no fence and only walked her across the street to do her business and then right back to the house. I don't think she was abused but she sure did not have a good life. I did not know them well, and saw them last summer at a local event. The teenagers were there and did not recognize me. They said that they had a Doberman at home but she looked nothing like mine......... I just wanted to say "no kidding......mine actually look like a Doberman, not a Doberdane", but of course I didn't.micdobe said:A puppymill means someplace that produces a lot of puppies, like a manufacturing mill produces a lot of whatever it makes.
What Kimbertal does is sell or even give away some of their female puppies to families on the condition that the bitch have two litters, then they can own her outright. The families keep the bitch during the pregnancy and whelping, then when the puppies are weaned they are taken to Kimbertal to be sold. There they are places in stalls in a barn according to litter. It is better for the puppies to be born and raised in families rather than born in a horse barn, but OTOH this method also saves Kimbertal from having to put in the labor and spend the money of raising the litter, it's all profit to them.