[slk41]

I wish I had found this forum under better circumstances. Our red male will be 5 months on 11/8. We've had him for about 3 months, and we have come to adore and love him so much in that short time. We've been having serious potty and anxiety issues and so we've been working closely with a wonderful trainer and our great vet. Finally, just as a check for the bladder issue, our vet suggested a urine screen to rule out infection. I got the call last night that bacteria wasn't present, but in fact, nothing really was present. It was like water. He called it urine dilute. He suggested a water deprivation test to make sure the kidneys are able to concentrate the urine. I am taking a second urine sample, caught first thing this morning, to be sure it's not a fluke, but I am really worried. Troop does drink and drink and drink and we've always just chalked it up to being a puppy. Our older dogs, both labs, weren't like that but we brought it up at vet visits and with the trainer and nobody seemed concerned. Another concern is the fact that he doesn't seem to be growing much. He is 31 lbs - we brought this up to the vet last week at his last well visit and he thought he looked fine too. Troop is our second doberman - our last Doberman puppy was about 11 years ago - and Mako just seemed to fill out so quickly, and got tall too. I kept telling my husband that I didn't think Troop was growing enough. I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, of where to proceed from here. If this morning's sample is still dilute - do we do the water deprivation test, or start with bloodwork (which is more the path I'd like to take) or get a second opinion? This has been our vet for years and I love him but I don't want to make a wrong choice with our little boy. I attached a photo of him from last week and you can see his size in comparison to our 60 lb labs.

 

[mmctaq]

I know you said your vet is great, but...

Stunted growth, increased water consumption, dilute urine and anxiety are all often symptomatic of a liver shunt. A water deprivation test does not have diagnostic value for this, and in any case should NOT be done without first ruling out kidney disease.

I would be asking for a referral to a specialty clinic or to the vet school if you are close enough. I think your vet has dropped the ball on this.

 

[slk41]

Thank for that suggestion...I never considered that the two issues were related. We've been focusing on both of the issues so closely but separately that maybe we missed a link? I have to say that at this moment I am feeling frustrated with the whole process. The more I read about the water test, the less likely I am to agree to it because I don't know that it's warranted. I am not 100% on liver shunt symptoms for Troop but it's worth investigating. As of right now, I'm waiting on the call re: the second urinalysis. There are several vets at this practice and I may request a visit with the senior partner/owner. He helped us a lot when our previous dog was diagnosed with cancer and I do trust his opinion. I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Toby'shuman]

Good luck to your little chap and of course his humans.

 

[KCFilley]

I too would take him to the university or a specialty clinic. Be sure to take his history with you. Keep us posted. He is adorable.

 

[slk41]

Thank you! I have some photos we took for Halloween last night. I guess I haven't time to even enjoy them with the phone call I got right after we took them. He is a precious personality with us. So sweet and loving. And a HUGE cuddler! I missed the Doberman way of cuddling so much...labs are wonderful and I love our girls but they just are a bit more independent and not so "velcro." I work from home so Troop is a huge part of my life, makes my worrying that much worse.

 

[Adara]

I wish I had found this forum under better circumstances. Our red male will be 5 months on 11/8. We've had him for about 3 months, and we have come to adore and love him so much in that short time. We've been having serious potty and anxiety issues and so we've been working closely with a wonderful trainer and our great vet. Finally, just as a check for the bladder issue, our vet suggested a urine screen to rule out infection. I got the call last night that bacteria wasn't present, but in fact, nothing really was present. It was like water. He called it urine dilute. He suggested a water deprivation test to make sure the kidneys are able to concentrate the urine..

I would actually have them take a sterile sample vs bringing one in. My older vizsla does not concentrater her urine. Are you positive he didn't tank up on water before the visit? I had a routine UA done at her annual visit and it was clear like water. We waited 30 days and I made sure she didn't tank up on water and we redid the regular UA. Again, it was clear as water. So then we scheduled the water deprivation test which showed she is not concentrating her urine. All her other values are NORMAL and she was diagnosed with "water diabetes" which has many causes. I give her a nose drop once a night and she's fine. HOWEVER, she is 8 and not a puppy. It shoudl not interfere with her quailty of life and is not cnosidered life threatening, etc. UNLESS it is not monitored.

I would follow up with the water deprivation test.

 

[sam&macksmom]

Your location is PA. Are you near UPenn? School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania > Home

 

[tuxedojack]

Good luck to you - I'm sure you are worried sick, sending good vibes your way. Let us know what you find out!

 

[slk41]

Not good news tonight. Overnight urine was still dilute and vet seemed pretty aggravated that we had it rechecked. Feeling like the vet has let us down and all he wants to talk about is the water test, not even really open to bloodwork first.... Calling a friend's vet tomorrow for a second opinion.

 

[mmctaq]

Not good news tonight. Overnight urine was still dilute and vet seemed pretty aggravated that we had it rechecked. Feeling like the vet has let us down and all he wants to talk about is the water test, not even really open to bloodwork first.... Calling a friend's vet tomorrow for a second opinion.

I am sorry you are having so much trouble getting your pup's needs addressed properly, and good for you for your persistance and refusal to be pushed around. Hopefully, your friend's vet will be more suitable. Please don't hesitate to ask for a referral to a board-certified internist if you feel your pup would be better served.

Updates when you have them... we'll be wondering what's going on!

 

[slk41]

As I am now able to articulate my thoughts better, I thought I would follow up on last night's post about my conversation with the vet regarding Troop's morning urine specimen. First of all, I had to call them and ask what was going on around 6:30 pm (we dropped sample off at 8 am) and they said the vet would need to call. So, he finally calls at 8:30 and has instant attitude. I am completely caught off guard because he has NEVER been that way with us. He has been our vet at the practice for about 5 years - he was even the vet to put our precious Sierra girl down from cancer 3 years ago. I trusted him implicitly but this was the first time I've ever really questioned him I guess? So, he apologizes for not calling but then says the reason he didn't call was because he thought someone had made a mistake in putting a second urinalysis through. I wish I could convey his tone here. I was so mad I could have screamed. As if I didn't have the right to waste my own money on another test just to be sure...? So he says the overnight concentration is .002 higher than the midday sample and now it's time for the water deprivation test. He obviously thinks JRD is the cause so why put him through this test without at least checking blood work? I mention this and he says they'll do blood work as they do the water test if I really want him to. I just don't get why he is so freaking stuck on the water test. Everything I've read and been told says that first blood work then water test as a last resort.

So, this morning I called another vet who was highly recommended and after explaining the situation, they got us an appt this evening. I know there is a high probability that we're looking at a grim diagnosis but I'm still holding out that hope.

As an aside, but related, Troop seems to be worsening. He wet the bed last night and didn't even move. Luckily, I caught it in time because I just couldn't sleep and was laying in bed snuggling with him. So no major mattress mess, just washing comforters at 2 in the am. Fun times. Also, he is "smacking" his lips all the time today and the breath has become rancid. We had a german shepherd die years ago of kidney failure and all of these signs are freaking me out because this is how the end was with Cleo. It's so hard to keep on keeping on. I hope tonight's appt yields some answers.

I also am getting ready to email the breeder to see if any other pups from this litter are having any issues.

Positive thoughts please...

 

[workingk9s]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I don't have anything helpful to add, just sympathy.

 

[Jareddri]

My thoughts are with you and the little one.

 

[Faireview]

I'm sorry this is happening to you and your little guy. My thoughts are with you both.

 

[EmilyB]

I am so sorry. I am wishing the best for your little guy, please let us know how the appointment goes.

 

[bubsy]

Sending good thoughts for your pup. JRD does occur in Dobermans, will the water deprivation test confirm JRD? My dog was going to undergo this test, but we were looking to rule out Diabetes Insipidus. Juvenile Renal Disease

 

[bubsy]

As an aside, but related, Troop seems to be worsening. He wet the bed last night and didn't even move. Luckily, I caught it in time because I just couldn't sleep and was laying in bed snuggling with him. So no major mattress mess, just washing comforters at 2 in the am. Fun times. Also, he is "smacking" his lips all the time today and the breath has become rancid. We had a german shepherd die years ago of kidney failure and all of these signs are freaking me out because this is how the end was with Cleo. It's so hard to keep on keeping on. I hope tonight's appt yields some answers.

I also am getting ready to email the breeder to see if any other pups from this litter are having any issues.

Positive thoughts please...

Oh gosh, just read this update. That does sound like JRD, but will be praying for your pup that it is something treatable. I hope the new vet can give you some answers. And yes, let the breeder know what is going on. I've been hearing more about JRD in Dobermans lately. Sending good thoughts.

 

[dobebug]

You know, I thought that there was a recently developed gene test for juvenile renal disease. You might check VetGen's web site and see if they list that as a test for canines.

That would be even more helpful that a rule out with a water deprivation test.

 

[mmctaq]

You know, I thought that there was a recently developed gene test for juvenile renal disease. You might check VetGen's web site and see if they list that as a test for canines.

That would be even more helpful that a rule out with a water deprivation test.

Yes, there is a new test. It is not through VetGen, but through these guys: DOGenes - Genetic Testing and Research for Dogs