Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Go Dog Go
Joined
·
606 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm feeding Chanel Royal Canin Maxi (large breed adult 25) for now but will probably switch her to Acana once this bag is done. I currently have a really large bag because the size made a huge price difference.

I read elsewhere on the forum that kibble is only good for 3 - 4 weeks once it is opened & should be stored in the freezer - thoughts on this? I have repackaged into zip-locks & put them in the freezer, but I'm curious about it. I need a dog food tin & will probably use that for my daily/non-frozen food once I find one I like.

My other issue is amount. The bag says 4 (+) cups of food a day for a 60-70 pound dog. Do you go by the bag amounts, or do you accomodate the fact that dobermans are built differently from most other large dogs & reduce?

I ask because Chanel was getting 1 1/2 to 2 cups of mid size dog food (unidentifiable although I did get a sample) per day before I got her & that's what I've been giving her. It's been about 5 weeks & I think she had neck rolls & less rib definition when we were at 2 cups so I've cut it back to 1 1/2. (We walk twice a day & play a lot of chuckit when the temperature allow but I'd call it moderate rather than a lot of exercise. Previous owner used to run with her.) She doesn't get anything Tuesday nights because she gets tons of treats at obedience class.

Thanks for your input!
Kate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
I feed Parker, 82 lbs, 2 cups morning and nite. Amounts fed depends on the individual dog with recommended amounts on bag used as merely starting points. Kibbles should be consumed by 3 to 4 weeks after opening no matter if you store in container. Dont pour food into tin, but store food in bag in container. Pouring food into container exposes ALL to air and decomp starts on nutrients. Freezing is good if you have freezer space and bag is going to last beyond optimum time.
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
I feed Nature's Variety Instinct (so about the same quality as Acana). My boy who is about 80lb gets two cups a day. The measurement on the bag is a starting point but you definitely have to make adjustments to fit your dog. I do know of some dobes on equally good quality foods who were eating 4 cups a day and looked great. It's all about the individual dog.

As for storage, I have a pet food container that is airtight when closes. I open the top of the bag and I put the bag into the container. A freezer would keep it fresher for lnger but many people don't have that kind of space.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
The RC you are giving her now has 362 kcal/cup. Acana Pacifica, for example, has 430 kcal/cup so you would likely feed a little less on Acana.
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
My kibble is stored in those vittle vault things. A 30 lb. bag of kibble doesn't last very long around here, I don't worry about it degrading or anything after the bag is opened.

I use the feeding recommendations on the bag as a starting point only-then adjust how much I feed based on how the dog looks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,803 Posts
Try and find a kibble with less fillers, you will find yourself saving $ AND giving your dog a more nutritious diet.

I feed Natures Variety Instinct, Chase is 88lbs right now and gets three cups a day, sometimes just two if we train with treats that day.

I store 13kg in a Rubbermaid bin which lasts chase a little over a month.
 

·
Super Moderator
Hairy Dog, RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Joined
·
26,323 Posts
Dogs can be allergic to storage mites. If a dog is an allergic type, my dog's dermatologist recommends storing the food in the bag. Containers or bins tend to be prime places for storage mites to live--they can multiply on all those little crumbs left over when one bag runs out and you pour in another--so you need to wash the container out thoroughly between bags on food with soap and water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
I feed Nature's Variety Instinct (so about the same quality as Acana). My boy who is about 80lb gets two cups a day. The measurement on the bag is a starting point but you definitely have to make adjustments to fit your dog. I do know of some dobes on equally good quality foods who were eating 4 cups a day and looked great. It's all about the individual dog.

As for storage, I have a pet food container that is airtight when closes. I open the top of the bag and I put the bag into the container. A freezer would keep it fresher for lnger but many people don't have that kind of space.
Patch, Natures Variety Instinct is a much better food than Acana. NVI is 70% meat AFTER processing with no peas to boost protein content. Acana is only 60% meat BEFORE processing and uses peas to boost protein content. Also the first meat ingredient is not a meat meal, so it is going to lose 75 to 80% of its weight after processing placing it much lower on the ingredient list lowering the 60%.
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
Patch, Natures Variety Instinct is a much better food than Acana. NVI is 70% meat AFTER processing with no peas to boost protein content. Acana is only 60% meat BEFORE processing and uses peas to boost protein content. Also the first meat ingredient is not a meat meal, so it is going to lose 75 to 80% of its weight after processing placing it much lower on the ingredient list lowering the 60%.
I'll admit, while I have a list of good quality foods (in case I need to change foods for any reason) I haven't done considerable research in comparing them. Now I know, thanks :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,372 Posts
Glad you are going to swithch to a high quality food. Our boys are on Acana and doing well. Orijen even better. Natures Varitey is a very good food also. But it is the one that is going to agree with the dog. Each dog is different. It's what comes out the other end. Just make sure what ever food you try, you do a slow switch over 7-10 days. The amounts to feed are just a starting point. Each dog is different. If they are very active they will need more. If they are less active they will need less. The starting point on better foods is to look for ones with no Corn, Corn Gluten, Wheat or Soy.
The main thing after opening a bag of food is not keeping it exposed to air. Air is like an oxidizer. Try and get all the air out of the bag and reseal it. Keep the kibble in the bag it came in but put it in an air tight container. Also it keeps Bisphenol A (BPA) from leaching into the food. You can buy plastic containers that are BPA free.

Here is some info on BPA
Bisphenol A (BPA) is a ubiquitous compound in plastics. First synthesized in 1891, the chemical has become a key building block of plastics from polycarbonate to polyester; in the U.S. alone more than 2.3 billion pounds (1.04 million metric tons) of the stuff is manufactured annually.

Since at least 1936 it has been known that BPA mimics estrogens, binding to the same receptors throughout the human body as natural female hormones. And tests have shown that the chemical can promote human breast cancer cell growth as well as decrease sperm count in rats, among other effects. These findings have raised questions about the potential health risks of BPA, especially in the wake of hosts of studies showing that it leaches from plastics and resins when they are exposed to hard use or high temperatures (as in microwaves or dishwashers).

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found traces of BPA in nearly all of the urine samples it collected in 2004 as part of an effort to gauge the prevalence of various chemicals in the human body. It appeared at levels ranging from 33 to 80 nanograms (a nanogram is one billionth of a gram) per kilogram of body weight in any given day, levels 1,000 times lower than the 50 micrograms (one millionth of a gram) per kilogram of bodyweight per day considered safe by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the European Union's (E.U.) European Food Safety Authority (EFSA).

Studies suggest that BPA does not linger in the body for more than a few days because, once ingested, it is broken down into glucuronide, a waste product that is easily excreted. Yet, the CDC found glucuronide in most urine samples, suggesting constant exposure to it. "There is low-level exposure but regular low-level exposure," says chemist Steven Hentges, executive director of the polycarbonate / BPA global group of the American Chemistry Council. "It presumably is in our diet."

BPA is routinely used to line cans to prevent corrosion and food contamination; it also makes plastic cups and baby and other bottles transparent and shatterproof. When the polycarbonate plastics and epoxy resins made from the chemical are exposed to hot liquids, BPA leaches out 55 times faster than it does under normal conditions, according to a new study by Scott Belcher, an endocrine biologist at the University of Cincinnati. "When we added boiling water [to bottles made from polycarbonate] and allowed it to cool, the rate [of leakage] was greatly increased," he says, to a level as high as 32 nanograms per hour.

A recent report in the journal Reproductive Toxicology found that humans must be exposed to levels of BPA at least 10 times what the EPA has deemed safe because of the amount of the chemical detected in tissue and blood samples. "If, as some evidence indicates, humans metabolize BPA more rapidly than rodents," wrote study author Laura Vandenberg, a developmental biologist at Tufts University in Boston, "then human daily exposure would have to be even higher to be sufficient to produce the levels observed in human serum."

The CDC data shows that 93 percent of 2,157 people between the ages of six and 85 tested had detectable levels of BPA's by-product in their urine. "Children had higher levels than adolescents and adolescents had higher levels than adults," says endocrinologist Retha Newbold of the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, who found that BPA impairs fertility in female mice. "In animals, BPA can cause permanent effects after very short periods of exposure. It doesn't have to remain in the body to have an effect."

But experts are split on the potential health hazards to humans. The Food and Drug Administration has approved its use and the EPA does not consider it cause for concern. One U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) panel agreed, but another team of government scientists last year found that the amount of BPA present in humans exceeds levels that have caused ill effects in animals. They also found that adults' ability to tolerate it does not preclude damaging effects in infants and children.

"It is the unborn baby and children that investigators are most worried about," Newbold says, noting that BPA was linked to increased breast and prostate cancer occurrences, altered menstrual cycles and diabetes in lab mice that were still developing.

Fred vom Saal, a reproductive biologist at the University of Missouri–Columbia, warns that babies likely face the "highest exposure" in human populations, because both baby bottles and infant formula cans likely leach BPA. "In animal studies, the levels that cause harm happen at 10 times below what is common in the U.S." says vom Saal, who also headed the NIH panel that concluded the chemical may pose risks to humans.

Amid growing concern, Rep. John Dingell (D–Mich.) chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, has launched an investigation into BPA, sending letters last month to the FDA and seven manufacturers of infant products sold in the U.S. requesting information on any BPA safety tests as well as specific levels in the baby goods. The companies that make Similac, Earth's Best and Good Start have already responded, confirming that they coat the inside of their cans with BPA but that analyses did not detect it in the contents. They also emphasize that FDA has approved BPA for such use.

"Based on the studies reviewed by FDA, adverse effects occur in animals only at levels of BPA that are far higher orders of magnitude than those to which infants or adults are exposed," says FDA spokeswoman Stephanie Kwisnek. "Therefore, FDA sees no reason to ban or otherwise restrict the uses now authorized at this time."

FDA first approved BPA as a food container in 1963 because no ill effects from its use had been shown. When Congress passed a law—the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976—mandating that the EPA conduct or review safety studies on new chemicals before giving them the nod, compounds like BPA were already on the market. Therefore, they were not subject to the new rules nor required to undergo additional testing unless specific concerns had been raised (such as in the case of PCBs). "The science that exists today supports the safety of BPA," ACC's Hentges says, based largely on research his organization has funded.

But other studies since 1976 have shown that small doses (less than one part per billion) of estrogenlike chemicals, such as BPA, may be damaging. "In fetal mouse prostate you can stimulate receptors with estradiol at about two tenths of a part per trillion, and with BPA at a thousand times higher," vom Saal says. "That's still 10 times lower than what a six-year-old has." In other words, children six years of age were found to have higher levels of BPA's by-product glucuronide in their urine than did mice dosed with the chemical that later developed cancer and other health issues.

Further complicating the issue is the stew of other estrogen-mimicking chemicals to which humans are routinely exposed, from soy to antibacterial ingredients in some soaps. The effects of such chemical mixtures are not known but scientists say they may serve to enhance the ill effects of one another. "The assumption that natural estrogens are somehow immediately good for you and these chemicals are immediately bad," Belcher says, "is probably not a reasonable assumption to make."

The chemical industry argues that unless BPA is proved to have ill effects it should continue to be manufactured and used, because it is cheap, lightweight, shatterproof and offers other features that are hard to match. "There is no alternative for either of those materials [polycarbonate plastics and epoxy resins] that would simply drop in where those materials are used," Hentges says.

Not so, says vom Saal, who notes that there are plenty of other materials, such as polyethylene and polypropylene plastics, that would be fine substitutes in at least some applications. "There are a whole variety of different kinds of plastic materials and glass," he says. "They are all more stable than polycarbonate."

Concern over BPA is not confined only to the U.S. Japanese manufacturers began to use natural resin instead of BPA to line cans in 1997 after Japanese scientists showed that it was leaching out of baby bottles. A subsequent study there that measured levels in urine in 1999 found that they had dropped significantly.

A new E.U. law (Registration, Evaluation, Authorization and Restriction of Chemical Substances, or REACH), which took effect last year, requires that chemicals, such as BPA, be proved safe. Currently, though, it continues to be used in Europe; the EFSA last year found no reason for alarm based on rodent studies. European scientists cited multigenerational rat studies as reassuring and noted that mouse studies may be flawed because the tiny rodent is more susceptible to estrogens.

For now, U.S. scientists with concerns about BPA recommend that anyone sharing those worries avoid using products made from it: Polycarbonate plastic is clear or colored and typically marked with a number 7 on the bottom, and canned foods such as soups can be purchased in cardboard cartons instead.

If canned goods or clear plastic bottles are a must, such containers should never be microwaved, used to store heated liquids or foods, or washed in hot water (either by hand or in much hotter dishwashers). "These are fantastic products and they work well … [but] based on my knowledge of the scientific data, there is reason for caution," Belcher says. "I have made a decision for myself not to use them."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
Patch, Natures Variety Instinct is a much better food than Acana. NVI is 70% meat AFTER processing with no peas to boost protein content. Acana is only 60% meat BEFORE processing and uses peas to boost protein content. Also the first meat ingredient is not a meat meal, so it is going to lose 75 to 80% of its weight after processing placing it much lower on the ingredient list lowering the 60%.
NVI may be higher protein but that doesn't make it a superior food. Acana uses meal and fresh meat, Instinct only uses meal. Instinct is great, I definitely suggest it to many pet owners and have fed it myself, but to be real here the Champion company definitely has better quality and fresher ingredients, they run their business with really high standards and would not use China, say, as a source for any of their meat. NV also has a Prarie recall going on now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
NVI may be higher protein but that doesn't make it a superior food. Acana uses meal and fresh meat, Instinct only uses meal. Instinct is great, I definitely suggest it to many pet owners and have fed it myself, but to be real here the Champion company definitely has better quality and fresher ingredients, they run their business with really high standards and would not use China, say, as a source for any of their meat. NV also has a Prarie recall going on now.
Finally remembered to respond to this...

NVI is a higher protein because it used more meat meal. It is 70% meat at the end of processing and that is a heck of a lot of meat.

Acana may use fresh meat and ingredients, but how fresh are those meats and ingredients at the end of processing...really. The meat has been reduced to meat meal, plus the first ingredient in Acana is salmon with water included, so you can send that ingredient to below the oil. There are not enough ingredients after the first 6/7 to really even count as being important.

What really lowers Acana in my mind is the inclusion of so many carbohydrates before the oil. You have three meat meals and three carbohydrates. That makes it a 50/50 split of meat and carbs in the ingredients before the oil and that is way too many carbs.

On the other hand NVI has three meat meals and only one carb, a low allergin at that, before the oil. Dogs don't even need carbs and the main reason they are included in dog kibbles are to bind the ingredients together so we can have the nice little pellets to feed.

So no, Acana is not superior to NVI, no way, no how!!!

Even the DogFood Advisor site agrees witi me...

NVI Duck & Turkey Meal..."Based on the quality of these ingredients, it’s easy to see Nature’s Variety Instinct Dog Food is an exceptional kibble."

sourced from: Nature's Variety Instinct Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

Acana Adult Small Breed is what was given to be rated..."Judging by its ingredients alone, Acana Dog Food looks to be an above-average dry dog food."

Oh yeah, the only ingredient that I know of from China is the rabbit in the raw food. When I called NV, I was informed the rabbit in the kibble and canned is from France.

I do know most vitamins are now made in China, so I don't know about that for either food.

And, so what, on the recall..."This product is not contaminated in any way, but some products are not remaining fresh for the shelf life of the product."
Nature's Variety Dog Food Recall
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top