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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI, I've been reading/lurking here for quite some time, LOVE this forum. I have a 6 month old female. I had an appt. to have her spayed about a month ago, when I noticed an occassional discharge after urination. My vet said it was "juvenile vaginitis" and would clear up on it's own, nothing to worry about. Since I/we never have any medical procedure done without first researching it - I took to the computer as soon as we got home. EVERYTHING I found said to NEVER spay a pup with juvenile vaginitis BEFORE the first heat. I called my vet back and he said "it wouldn't make any difference but was my choice". So I canceled the surgery. I have a friend in MI that is a vet so I emailed him and he said, without question "to WAIT".

Does anyone have any experience with this? I've heard so much good about early spays, prior to maturity, but in this situation it basically states she would have ongoing issues with vaginitis if done before first heat. :(

Thanks!
 

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Yes here :) Lexus had this at about 4-5 months old. We were given meds for it, and it did clear up fairly quickly. The vet told me too that often times it clears up on its own.

I was not told, but in all fairness I didn't ask either, about ongoing possible issues with spaying before the first heat after having JV, but I (IMO personally) prefer to spay after the first heat anyway. So maybe seek another vet to "break the tie" so to speak.

Welcome to the forum, BTW, we look forward to hearing more about your girl!
 

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yeah I forget the age...but Duchess got this nasty discharge...it would sometimes hang down a little...but I don't know anything else about the discharge...just that it seems to be normal for it to happen :)
...as far as spaying before or after the heat...I don't know much...they say before their heat they lower risk of a cancer...and if you get them spayed after I heard it is good for the atheletic dogs to grow and mature...that is all I have heard though...and I don't know anything about how the discharge can effect a spay...
our breeder suggested to get her spayed after her first heat and when we took her to our holistic vet we mentioned the issue to her to and she also said that it is probably a good idea to wait till after her heat with the athletic dogs...
so I don't know but either way I would just do what lexus said...ask another vet if you feel the need to...until your comfortable with your decision
either way Im glad about your plans to spay!:) :) keep us updated :) and you should definately post more and share with us!!! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you both - I feel much better. :) I will try for a 3rd. vet opinion. Altho, I think, from everything I've read - waiting would be for the best.

As for posting more and sharing.........
careful what you ask for! :) I'm a dobe fanatic and would talk dobes all day long given half a chance! *teehee* This is our second. Our first we had for 15 years. She was my second skin! Truly wonderful lil girl. Not too long after she passed we got a great dane, he lived to 10. I loved that big dopey dog but longed for another dobie baby. So here we are with another. I've had her for almost 4 mos. and she's been a trip. I'm either much older than I thought or she has the energy of 20 dogs! *lol* But I'm enjoying every minute of training her. Once the summer rush of chores and plans settle down I'd like to start some agility training with her, just for fun.

Thanks again............look forward to getting to know everyone! :)
 

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thats great! I love danes too...never had one...but my neighbors have 3...one that is 13 years old! that is awesome you had your first dobe for 15 years! I love hearing about the peoples dobes that lived till 12 or 15 from former dobe owners
Agility will be great for her I bet just make sure you don't take her to training or public places like that while she is in heat. lol I was so paranoid with Duch I guarded her like an overprotective mommy lol. Also since she will be being spayed after her heat it might be some time...so just make sure after the surgery she is all healed and physically ready to start agility :)
Im glad you are a dobe fanatic! I go through reading and posting everything I want so fast that I am always looking for more to read!!! :)
 

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Puppy vaginitis is very common--generally if the vaginitis is severe, recurrent and persistent your vet will recommend waiting until after the first season to spay.

I don't know what the mechanics are but a single season will often put a halt to vaginitis.

There are a couple of much publicized informational posts that make their way around the internet lists and boards that give the con view of early spay and neuters.

Much of the information is from either anecdotal sources or from breeds other than Dobermans. And it generally refers to pediatric spays and neuters--as in at 8 to 12 weeks or so--the kind that humane societies and rescues often do so that pets are adopted already spayed or neutered and there are no possibilities for accidents.

Most of the dogs and bitches that run agility are spayed or neutered and most of them were spayed or neutered at around six months--the claim that they are taller, spindly and have inadequet chest developement for the canine athlete don't seem to the case--not even anecdotally.

I'd discuss the question of spaying before the first heat again with your vet--if she has had continual puppy vaginitis you might want to wait until after the first heat. The swelling of the vulva during the heat cycle will sometime cause an inverted vulva to assume it's proper position and that (the inverted vulva) is often the immediate cause of puppy vaginitis (traps urine and allows minor infections to get going).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
lapdog - danes are wonderful dogs! Our's seemed doomed from the day we got him. He was our malady child, always some odd affliction. He was tentatively diagnosed with Wobbler's Syndrome before his first b-day. The orthopedic surgeon suggested euthanizing him "soon" as he would progress rapidly. We took him home with the intentions of giving him the best quality of life we could provide. With the idea that the first sign of pain - we would make the dreaded decision. He NEVER once showed any progression of the Wobblers or pain (thank goodness). He lived a very happy life, FAR longer than 3 vets and a specialist ever imagined! :)

dobebug - wow! Great info! Thank you so much! Widder's case in recurrent. It's not bad, nor is it all the time. I try to make sure she consumes lots of water. I really dread facing a heat with her. We live in the country and there aren't any stray dogs but I know the instant her season begins, they'll probably come out in droves! :( What's the average duration? Three weeks? I went through it my lil doxie but can't remember.

Thanks again!
 

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He NEVER once showed any progression of the Wobblers or pain (thank goodness). He lived a very happy life, FAR longer than 3 vets and a specialist ever imagined!
aww that is so great to hear!
 

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widow said:
lapdog - danes are wonderful dogs! Our's seemed doomed from the day we got him. He was our malady child, always some odd affliction. He was tentatively diagnosed with Wobbler's Syndrome before his first b-day. The orthopedic surgeon suggested euthanizing him "soon" as he would progress rapidly. We took him home with the intentions of giving him the best quality of life we could provide. With the idea that the first sign of pain - we would make the dreaded decision. He NEVER once showed any progression of the Wobblers or pain (thank goodness). He lived a very happy life, FAR longer than 3 vets and a specialist ever imagined! :)

dobebug - wow! Great info! Thank you so much! Widder's case in recurrent. It's not bad, nor is it all the time. I try to make sure she consumes lots of water. I really dread facing a heat with her. We live in the country and there aren't any stray dogs but I know the instant her season begins, they'll probably come out in droves! :( What's the average duration? Three weeks? I went through it my lil doxie but can't remember.

Thanks again!
Yes generally about three weeks. I'm sure you plan on being very careful with her anyway, but especially during the last week. Hopefully it won't be too messy and will go quickly for you ;-)
 

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Widow, I know what you mean...my last dobie boy lived until age 16. His puppy stage having been so long ago, I had selective memory gaps that tended to downplay their their adolescent energy level, too, just mostly remembering his "mature" years. You remember those "good" years--when they are always well-mannered, promptly obey all commands and don't leave you needing a nap just from watching them go, go, go non-stop doing the goofiest things? Gosh, I'm really looking forward to those mature years with my new boy. Welcome, and congrats on your new addition.
 

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Plain yogurt added to kibble will help with the discharge, depending on how severe it is. Java had a bit of discharge as well - vet recommended continuing with the yogurt, but to bring her back if there was any odor to the discharge (the things we do for love).

Breeder asked that I not spay her until after her first heat, but before her second. Concerns about bone growth, but I understand this is under debate. Spaying before 2nd heat has definite benefits in preventing mammary cancer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
LOL Sooz! I'm so glad it's not just me! :) And you're so right - I DO remember the "perfect" years with our first. Not the unlimited energy of the first few years! Widdy seems to NEVER tire! We took her to our annual Balloonfest over the 4th and after 7 hours of "doings" - I thought I'd bring her home and she'd crash! *ha* I was the one that did the crashing! :)

How wonderful you had your lil guy for 16 years! It's so rare for the larger breeds that I've actually had people not believe me when I tell them Dutch lived to be 15.

Java's mom - gosh - what a great idea! I never thought about yogurt!
 

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some what unrelated to the original topic, but I have recently read a study that linked early spays to skeletal problems in larger breeds. I've always been told it's best to spay/neuter at 6mo. The more I look into it and read on this topic from various sources, the more I think it's better to wait for the dog to mature and grow before taking the hormones away.
 

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Hey Zucker--some of those studies aren't really studies but compendiums of other peoples studies. Often they were done using dogs of no known background (humane society candidates) and breeds other than Dobermans.

I mentioned one that has been making the round for several years now and it has always been highly suspect to me since the author happens to be a reproduction vet. Some of the conclusions drawn in her "study" don't really make a lot of sense.

Even in pediatric spays and neuters (which may well not be the best way to go--those are usually done at 8-12 weeks) where the closing of the growth plates would NEVER be completed the studies that seem well designed and conducted indicate that the amount of extra growth is minimal--1/4 to 3/8 of an inch.

The dogs (Dobes) that I see in agility are for the most part spayed and neutered--most of them were done at around 6 months--one of the studies say that the canine athlete is adversly affected because the capacity of the chest is so diminished that the dogs don't oxygenate properly. Most of the Top Twenty Agility dogs are spayed or neutered--most of them were done at around six months and you simply don't see this sort of warped conformation that one of the studies talks about.

People also comment that some of these early spays and neuters produce very slab sided, narrow, tall dogs. I've seen so many dogs of this sort which are simply the result of mediocre breeding--who are often intact that I have grave doubts about the accuracy of several of these studies.

I have no problem with people waiting to spay and neuter until the dog is mature--but for a male that's at 18 months to two years and not all people are as careful about intact males (or bitches) as they should be and more unexpected litters are nothing that anyone needs. Most males can successfully sire a litter well before their growth plates close. Most bitches growth plates are closed shortly after their first season. I'll go for pediatric spays and neuters any time just to prevent unwanted/unintended litters.
 
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