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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I do not want to start a debate or anything of the sort. I am horrible at math and numbers make my head spin. I have read several articles on different sites including this one about how to figure out the mix. Webgarden had a great thread about ivermec and how to mix/dispense to dogs safely. I would just like some feedback and I know some of you are really good at math. :)

I had discussed using ivermec on my dogs with my vet and he is fine with it. I had purchased a bottle already mixed by a vet from a lady I knew who worked for a shelter. As most of you know this lasts a long time. Recently I ran out and am no longer in contact with her. My dad has always used this on his hunting dogs and house pets. I purchased the ivermec 1% and brought it to him to show me how to mix and dispense it. IMO it just seems like a lot that I am giving. I really would prefer to not give it at all but the fear from living here in the south where the state bird should be the misquito I feel inclined to.

His mix is:

50ml ivermec
150ml propylene glycol
Dispensed at 1cc per 25lbs

Thanks for any input.
 

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I'm not sure why you would mix it. I use straight 0.1cc per 10 lbs. So for a 70 lbs dog I would use 0.7cc. I usually mix it with peanut butter and she happily finishes it off. I have heard some people use up to 0.2cc per 10 lbs.
 

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I dont get the mixing either, except you can get by with less ivermectin than if you just give straight. I guess that is the reasoning behind it, say if you are squirting into the mouth, the mix would be easier than the smaller amount of plain ivermectin. I do know that .2cc per 10 lbs is too much and actually .1cc per 10 lbs is more then you need, tho, that is what I give, also. I squirt it on Parkers kibble and let it soak in before giving him the food. My vet 16 yrs ago told me it was better to give with food.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I dont get the mixing either, except you can get by with less ivermectin than if you just give straight. I guess that is the reasoning behind it, say if you are squirting into the mouth, the mix would be easier than the smaller amount of plain ivermectin. I do know that .2cc per 10 lbs is too much and actually .1cc per 10 lbs is more then you need, tho, that is what I give, also. I squirt it on Parkers kibble and let it soak in before giving him the food. My vet 16 yrs ago told me it was better to give with food.
That is the reasoning my dad said b/c it is easier to pull into the syringe and squirt. I used to squirt it in their mouth but they hated it and tried to spit it out. Now I put it in a small bowl and mix with some milk. They drink it right up.
 

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I'm not sure why you would mix it. I use straight 0.1cc per 10 lbs. So for a 70 lbs dog I would use 0.7cc. I usually mix it with peanut butter and she happily finishes it off. I have heard some people use up to 0.2cc per 10 lbs.
Exactly the same thing here. Right now we're using Heartgard because we got a year supply free but we always used .1cc/10lbs before.
 

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Since the amount of Ivermectin needed to kill the microfilaria is rather small, folks who use Ivomec 1% solution to dose small dogs mix it with Ppg to avoid overdosing.

The occasional "overdose" won't hurt a dog, but long-term high doses can cause problems.

For large dogs, you can use straight Ivomec. The dose for dogs weighing up to 88 is 0.25 cc. For 100# dogs, the dose is 0.28 cc. I use a TB syringe to draw it and mix it with a little milk. The dogs love it.
 

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my suggestion? if your vet is ok with using it, then i would ask your vet to dose it out. i wont comment on all the doses in here, and i cant tell you how to dose it - but know that some of these doses on here are wrong.
 

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1% inverctin calculations

Your too kind Kim..Actually all the doses are wrong if you go by the amounts listed on the Heartguard brand name package

All I can say is thank god Ivermectin has a very wide range of safety error for non MDR1 gene mutation dogs. Everyone that has posted are WAY overdosing for monthly preventative. Dispensing straight from the 1% bottle is way overdosing for preventative. You would only need to dose with a few plus drops of the 1% solution for an average adult sized dobe. Dilution is necessary in order to achieve an accurate dose. Unless, you have at your disposal a µl syringe, there is no way to accurately dole out the correct amount with a 1% solution. The OP has it correct to dilute to get a workable diluted solution that could then be dispensed with a tuberculin syringe which can dole out 0.1 cc increments, but incorrectly doses with too much using 1cc per 25 pounds. With the quarter dilution the OP is doing you would need less than 1 cc total of your mixture for an adult dobe weight

From the brand Heartguard package … at minimum doses are 2.72 µ g of invermectin per pound of body weight for preventative

Heartgard Blue for dogs up to 25 pounds has 68 mcg ivermectin so per pound 68/25 = 2.72 µg per pound minimum
Heartgard Green for dogs 26-50 pounds has 136 mcg ivermectin so per pound 136ug/50=2.72 µ g per pound minimum
Heartgard Brown for dogs 51-100 pounds has 272 mcg ivermectin so per pound 272 ug/100 = 2.72 ug per pound minimum

So
1)At minimum 2.72 µg is administered per pound per Heartguard formulation

2)A 1% solution of Ivermectin contains 10,000 µg per ml …. A 0.1 ml contains 1000 µ g

An average adult Doberman at say 80 pounds dosed at 2.72 ug per pound per the heartguard dosage needs 217 ( 2.72 x 80) µg for monthly prevention. So even simply administrating just 0.1 cc (or 1000 ug) straight from the bottle is overkill by approximately 5X. In order to give the correct dosage of 217 ug for the 80# dog …you would have to dose approximately 1/5 of that 0.1 ml!!!!

Im all for saving money and do use livestock ivetmectin. But I am proficient and secure by trade at calculating numbers and dilution and I ascertained/determined beforehand the amount of ivermectin per kg needed for preventative. The numbers and calculations were also run by my vet and we sat down and went through the calculations together to determine their integrity.

So I would do as Kim suggests…have your vet dose it out or mix it and let them tell you how much to dispense.

Where is everyone getting their dosage numbers from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I would not ask my vet to give me the measurement since the medicine is not perscibed for dogs. IMO that would be asking him to do something that is not ethical.

Probably from people like me who cant do math! LOL
 

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A vet cannot tell you how much Ivomec 1% to give your dog because the medicine is not meant for dogs. If they do, you can sue the pants right off of them. They're not even supposed to recommend it.

I'm just citing .1cc per 10lbs because that's how my grandfather dosed his Greyhounds. They were healthy dogs (obviously... or they couldn't race). I'm not saying it's the "correct" dose, but it worked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
.1 cc per 10lb of bodyweight is way too much. I think I attempted to do the math once.. :lol: http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman-related-chat/44202-those-you-use-cattle-ivermectin.html

I would not personally give more than .1 cc per 40lb. These days I only give Ziggy .1 cc or thereabouts and even that is overkill. (he is a little under 80 lb)

Also, this page tells you how to mix it: - Terrierman's Daily Dose -
Thanks for those links I had found that place once before and could not find it again!
 

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Well I appreciate the info on dose. I don't feel that .1cc/10lbs is harmful because I've been using it for a long time, but using more than you need is wasteful and in this economy that's a no-no. I think we have 6 months of Heartgard left and then I think I will start using .025cc/10lbs instead of .1cc/10lbs. It scares me to lower the dose because I live on the Alabama Gulf coast... here and Florida is where Heartworm is the worst in the United States because we have a pretty dense mosquito population all year 'round. But if I'm using 4x too much, that's a waste of money.
 

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A vet cannot tell you how much Ivomec 1% to give your dog because the medicine is not meant for dogs. If they do, you can sue the pants right off of them. They're not even supposed to recommend it.
This is not true. Off-label or extra-label usage of medications is a common and acceptable practice.
 

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This is not true. Off-label or extra-label usage of medications is a common and acceptable practice.
It's true that a lot of people do it and it's not harmful. But, if a vet recommends you something that is not FDA approved for dogs, and you do something stupid and your dog gets sick, or if your dog dies because he's heterozygous for the MDR1 mutation, he recommended you something that is not FDA approved and you can sue him all to heck, get his license taken away, and probably win a bunch of money, too. I don't think your dog even has to get sick for you to sue him for veterinary malpractice.

So, yeah, your vet can recommend you give your dog off-label use of a drug that is FDA approved for dogs, but he's not permitted to tell you to use a drug for cattle/swine on your dog, because it hasn't been FDA approved for such usage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well I appreciate the info on dose. I don't feel that .1cc/10lbs is harmful because I've been using it for a long time, but using more than you need is wasteful and in this economy that's a no-no. I think we have 6 months of Heartgard left and then I think I will start using .025cc/10lbs instead of .1cc/10lbs. It scares me to lower the dose because I live on the Alabama Gulf coast... here and Florida is where Heartworm is the worst in the United States because we have a pretty dense mosquito population all year 'round. But if I'm using 4x too much, that's a waste of money.
You probably will waste some of it anyway. It does have an expiration date and I believe it is 2 yrs. With one dog I dont know how you would use it all before then. With the earlier mixture that was not even a full bottle of ivermec for 3 dogs took over a yr to use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Your too kind Kim..Actually all the doses are wrong if you go by the amounts listed on the Heartguard brand name package

All I can say is thank god Ivermectin has a very wide range of safety error for non MDR1 gene mutation dogs. Everyone that has posted are WAY overdosing for monthly preventative. Dispensing straight from the 1% bottle is way overdosing for preventative. You would only need to dose with a few plus drops of the 1% solution for an average adult sized dobe. Dilution is necessary in order to achieve an accurate dose. Unless, you have at your disposal a µl syringe, there is no way to accurately dole out the correct amount with a 1% solution. The OP has it correct to dilute to get a workable diluted solution that could then be dispensed with a tuberculin syringe which can dole out 0.1 cc increments, but incorrectly doses with too much using 1cc per 25 pounds. With the quarter dilution the OP is doing you would need less than 1 cc total of your mixture for an adult dobe weight

From the brand Heartguard package … at minimum doses are 2.72 µ g of invermectin per pound of body weight for preventative

Heartgard Blue for dogs up to 25 pounds has 68 mcg ivermectin so per pound 68/25 = 2.72 µg per pound minimum
Heartgard Green for dogs 26-50 pounds has 136 mcg ivermectin so per pound 136ug/50=2.72 µ g per pound minimum
Heartgard Brown for dogs 51-100 pounds has 272 mcg ivermectin so per pound 272 ug/100 = 2.72 ug per pound minimum

So
1)At minimum 2.72 µg is administered per pound per Heartguard formulation

2)A 1% solution of Ivermectin contains 10,000 µg per ml …. A 0.1 ml contains 1000 µ g

An average adult Doberman at say 80 pounds dosed at 2.72 ug per pound per the heartguard dosage needs 217 ( 2.72 x 80) µg for monthly prevention. So even simply administrating just 0.1 cc (or 1000 ug) straight from the bottle is overkill by approximately 5X. In order to give the correct dosage of 217 ug for the 80# dog …you would have to dose approximately 1/5 of that 0.1 ml!!!!

Im all for saving money and do use livestock ivetmectin. But I am proficient and secure by trade at calculating numbers and dilution and I ascertained/determined beforehand the amount of ivermectin per kg needed for preventative. The numbers and calculations were also run by my vet and we sat down and went through the calculations together to determine their integrity.

So I would do as Kim suggests…have your vet dose it out or mix it and let them tell you how much to dispense.

Where is everyone getting their dosage numbers from?
My vet did not offer the information and since he offers everything on anything. I know that this is something he cant do. I assume it is unethical as I posted earlier.

I am going to get my nephew who is a math wiz to figure my dads mixture to the table. Yes, he is a wiz he was testing out at college level in junior high.
 

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It's true that a lot of people do it and it's not harmful. But, if a vet recommends you something that is not FDA approved for dogs, and you do something stupid and your dog gets sick, or if your dog dies because he's heterozygous for the MDR1 mutation, he recommended you something that is not FDA approved and you can sue him all to heck, get his license taken away, and probably win a bunch of money, too. I don't think your dog even has to get sick for you to sue him for veterinary malpractice.

So, yeah, your vet can recommend you give your dog off-label use of a drug that is FDA approved for dogs, but he's not permitted to tell you to use a drug for cattle/swine on your dog, because it hasn't been FDA approved for such usage.
Again, this is not true.

Frequently Asked Questions about Extralabel Drug Use and AMDUCA

Every veterinarian who has treated mange with ivermectin has used a livestock product extra-label. It is, indeed, permitted.
 

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1% inverctin calculations

As mmctaq notes…extra label is permitted. For both animals and humans. My horse doctor vet is upfront with me on his extra label dispensing for my animals. I deal with a lot of vets. Never has anyone of them had a problem telling me how to dilute or how much to administer. They have even documented dilution and administration on my take home records.

I have always been of the persuasion to avoid chemicals and medications not needed and if so only at the minimum dosages necessary. I have no idea of the consequences of medicating in the long run. Cancer, side effects etc. So I choose to keep it lean and minimum unless the research is out there to proof it otherwise.

I find it sad that people are dosing invermectin based on here say or without backing up those dosages with calculations. The internet according to 1% ivemectin dosage is full of crap. Terriermans daily dose link provided on this thread is incorrect. With his//her dilution a 1cc will dose 184 pounds of dog yet it is stated to dose 1cc per 40pounds. If you research for dosage does not provide you with the how they went about calculation…ignore it. And if you don’t know how to ascertain the calculations are correct, ignore it. Ask your vet.

So for what it is worth

1% solution Invermectin
1 cc of a 1% solution of invermectin contains 10000 ug. The recommended dosing of preventative is 2.72 ug per pound per the heartguard package. So you would need to administer .000272 cc per pound of weight of the 1% solution

10% dilution of 1% ivermectin
1cc contains 1000 ug . You would need to administer .00272 of a cc per pound of body weight

25% dilution of 1% invermectin
1 cc contains 400 ug You would need to administer 0.0068 of a cc per pound of body weight
 
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