Irritable Bowel Syndrome

6219 Views 25 Replies 14 Participants Last post by karle216, Oct 21, 2011

Sage

Discussion Starter · Oct 16, 2011 (Edited)

MY 15 month old doberman has experienced digestive issues his entire life. I am feeding him California Natural lamb and rice kibble. My vet thinks he mostly likely has irritable bowel syndrome. He has small bumps all over his back from the base of his neck to his tail. I am at a lost as to how to help him. He had been doing well on California Natural (CN) for long as I added probiotics to his food. If I stopped the probiotics he would have very soft stools. I made the mistake of switching him to Taste of the Wild fish formula. I had hoped that because it contained probiotics I would no longer need to supplement his meals with them. He was feed TOTW for one month but never had great stools. The bumps started while on TOTW. About 2 1/2 weeks ago I switched him back to CN. Unfortunately, the bumps are still there. His stools are inconsistent. Sometimes they are great and sometimes they are soft. I would appreciate any help. To complicate matters he now turns his nose up at the CN. I added some CN canned lamb & rice to the kibble and he gobbled it up. Unfortunately, the canned CN caused mushy stool, so I will stop giving him the canned CN. My vet thinks he may have to be put on a prescription diet and given metromiazole (spelling ???) on a permanent basis. Please help.

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Tollers-n-Dobes

· #2 · Oct 16, 2011

It could be IBS, but he might just be ultra sensitive. Ripley had very similar symptoms when he was younger. He had hives all over, and his coat just wasn't very nice. His stools alternated between pudding consistancy and explosive diarrhea, he couldn't keep weight on, he was very gassy some nights, etc. Our vet also wanted to put him on Metronidazole as he was at as much of a loss as we were, but he didn't have anything wrong with him other than severe food intolerances. We did a couple rounds of the metronidazole just incase, which just made things worse as then his gut flora was all messed up, so we had to give him digestive enzymes or (non-dairy) acidophilus.

It was a lot of trial and error, but we finally found a food that agrees with him and he looks fantastic. Coat is beautiful, skin is healthy, stools are perfect, weight is good, etc. I found, oddly enough, that both of my sensitive dogs did the worst on limited ingredient foods like CN for some reason. I have no idea why, though.

Sorry, not really all that helpful! But I hope you're able to get to the bottom of it. Food issues are no fun at all.

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dobebug

· #3 · Oct 16, 2011

Before I'd take that tentative diagnosis of Irritable Bowel Syndrome as correct, absolute and positive I'd want a good vet internist to have a look--a lot of puppies (and your dog is really just hitting adulthood at this point) don't do all that well on several of the foods he's been on.

Most internists will tell people who have dogs who have chronic problems with soft stools, diarrhea and a similar history to your dog that the primary problem is an immature digestive system. Generally the recommendation is a fairly ordinary but not "top of the line" kibble. One of the ones that detractors like to refer to as poison. Purina Pro Plan, Eukanuba medium breed, even the dreaded Hills has some regular adult foods and one they recently added called Sensitive Stomach seems to work for some of the other breeds whose young dogs have these sorts of problems.

Generally most young dogs outgrow the problems but tracking down the right food is sometimes not easy as Tollers-n-Dobes has pointed out.

I know several people with dogs who do have Irritable Bowel Disease whose dogs are maintained on true limited ingredient diets. But these are generally older dogs and the diagnosis was confirmed by bowel biopsies. They also tend to be on at least a minimal dosage of pred to control some of the symptoms and nothing but their own kibble is really NOTHING but their kibble as even a tiny amount of a foreign food can set off a long painful reaction.

Good luck on finding the right food for your dog.

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Adara

· #4 · Oct 16, 2011

I have 2 cats with IBS symptoms. I did not follow up for a formal diagnosis but once I switched them to raw their symptoms went away. One cannot eat beef, goat or lamb, which is not uncommon for cats. My cats symptoms were greasy coats, vomitting, liquid pancake diarrhea that stunk TO HIGH HEAVEN

If none of the kibble is working, you might think about raw. I know quite a few people on the raw list with IBS pets that do well without having to give pred for life.

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EmilyB

· #5 · Oct 16, 2011

Sensitivities aside, you might also want to research Butyrex if you are dealing with IBS.

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Sage

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 17, 2011 (Edited)

Tollers-n-Dobes said:
It could be IBS, but he might just be ultra sensitive. Ripley had very similar symptoms when he was younger. He had hives all over, and his coat just wasn't very nice. His stools alternated between pudding consistancy and explosive diarrhea, he couldn't keep weight on, he was very gassy some nights, etc. Our vet also wanted to put him on Metronidazole as he was at as much of a loss as we were, but he didn't have anything wrong with him other than severe food intolerances. We did a couple rounds of the metronidazole just incase, which just made things worse as then his gut flora was all messed up, so we had to give him digestive enzymes or (non-dairy) acidophilus.

It was a lot of trial and error, but we finally found a food that agrees with him and he looks fantastic. Coat is beautiful, skin is healthy, stools are perfect, weight is good, etc. I found, oddly enough, that both of my sensitive dogs did the worst on limited ingredient foods like CN for some reason. I have no idea why, though.

Sorry, not really all that helpful! But I hope you're able to get to the bottom of it. Food issues are no fun at all.

What food did you settle on that solved the problem (brand & protein source)? Thanks.

Tollers-n-Dobes

· #7 · Oct 17, 2011 (Edited)

Sage said:
What food did you settle on that solved the problem (brand & protein source)? Thanks.

Acana Adult is what he does the best on. It's chicken based, oddly enough. But that might not be the answer for your guy. Keira also has a plethora of food sensitivities and seems to only do well on Acana Pacifica which is fish (though I am going to try her on their red meat formula soon just to see). I'm not sure why I ended up with two Dobermans who can't eat a lot of different foods, but it sure was tough finding something for them both! Keira's sensitivities weren't quite as bad as Ripley's, but again were similar.

I'm going to also second Adara's mention of raw food. If you're comfortable with it and can find an affordable source in your area, that might be a good option as well! I'm scared to switch my dogs to pretty much anything these days after all of my issues with them, but I've thought a few times about switching to raw. I just don't have the freezer space, and then it makes things difficult when they need to stay with their breeder when we go somewhere.

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Adobe4two

· #8 · Oct 17, 2011

Some allergies can result in soft stools and the hives. Not all of the allergies are food related though. Patriot had some BAD allergies that he was on constant antihistimines and such for. Did allergy tests, food trials, ect. with little luck and vet chalked it up to seasonal allergies and said it would just need to be managed.

Then I realized the rashes (like I said, his would get pretty bad. Rashes, paired up with hives on his back and loose stools) were fairly localized to his under carriage and he started to get bumps around his mouth (not all that uncommon on dogs that use plastic food/water dishes). Which sparked my suspicion... And... Turns out, apparently he has an allergy to plastic... I took apart his crate and lined it with a bed sheet before putting it back together, so he wouldn't lay or lean on the plastic. Took away his nylabone and shortened his playtime with his wobbler... And he has stopped having issues aside from some mild localized irritation when he wears his prong or secret collar (the prong caps are plastic). Is there any kind of shampoo or anything you've used of that nature? Any issues with fleas?

As for food options I third raw, you have much more control over what they ingest and better odds of figuring out exactly what foods bother them... As for kibble, I'm told that Nature's variety rabbit has been a good choice for a GSD I know of with a severe digestive problems. But I've yet to use their limited ingredient foods and I have not had a chance to look at the ingredient list.

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LindaH

· #9 · Oct 17, 2011

Natures Variety Instinct

Parker has enviromental and food allergies. I can feed him Acana Pacifca and Natures Variety Instinct. I havent had to feed the limited ingredient formulas as NVI has such unique ingredients. The whole line of NVI is considered as allergy foods. I have fed Parker the salmon and rabbit so far. I recommended it to someone on here and they pmed to say thanks as that was the first food in over a year that agreed with their boy. Read the thread Prebiotics or Probiotics? I started friday or saturday. Its got a lot of good info on it. I have been using their digestive enzymes as he was having occasional diarrhea, gas or something, forgot now why. Also for bumps, read my thread, Sardines, Good for Allergies. Before I forget, just havent tried the other Acana formulas yet as mistakenly thought he couldnt have chicken fat, but have discovered it is meat proteins and fat has no protein so wont hurt him to eat foods with chicken fat. Opens up a lot of foods thought I couldnt feed.

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Sage

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 17, 2011

Tollers-n-Dobes said:
Acana Adult is what he does the best on. It's chicken based, oddly enough. But that might not be the answer for your guy. Keira also has a plethora of food sensitivities and seems to only do well on Acana Pacifica which is fish (though I am going to try her on their red meat formula soon just to see). I'm not sure why I ended up with two Dobermans who can't eat a lot of different foods, but it sure was tough finding something for them both! Keira's sensitivities weren't quite as bad as Ripley's, but again were similar.

I'm going to also second Adara's mention of raw food. If you're comfortable with it and can find an affordable source in your area, that might be a good option as well! I'm scared to switch my dogs to pretty much anything these days after all of my issues with them, but I've thought a few times about switching to raw. I just don't have the freezer space, and then it makes things difficult when they need to stay with their breeder when we go somewhere.

My boy seemed to do well for short periods on CN chicken and rice but once a week he would have explosive diarrhea. I eventually came to the conclusion he was sensitive to chicken. The lamb & rice cured the diarrhea. I am also scared to switch my dog to anything else because it seems like switching makes it difficult to get back to a steady state even if you re-try something that used to work.

Sage

Discussion Starter · #11 · Oct 17, 2011

LindaH said:
Parker has enviromental and food allergies. I can feed him Acana Pacifca and Natures Variety Instinct. I havent had to feed the limited ingredient formulas as NVI has such unique ingredients. The whole line of NVI is considered as allergy foods. I have fed Parker the salmon and rabbit so far. I recommended it to someone on here and they pmed to say thanks as that was the first food in over a year that agreed with their boy. Read the thread Prebiotics or Probiotics? I started friday or saturday. Its got a lot of good info on it. I have been using their digestive enzymes as he was having occasional diarrhea, gas or something, forgot now why. Also for bumps, read my thread, Sardines, Good for Allergies. Before I forget, just havent tried the other Acana formulas yet as mistakenly thought he couldnt have chicken fat, but have discovered it is meat proteins and fat has no protein so wont hurt him to eat foods with chicken fat. Opens up a lot of foods thought I couldnt feed.

Linda:

My boy that I lost to lung cancer this past spring was on NV for a 6 month period about 3 years ago. I bought into the whole NV rotational philosophy. I used the kibble, canned, and expensive raw patties and varied the protein source. He had no digestive issues on any foods I fed him but when he had his annual wellness exam the vet noticed he had crystals in his urine and his blood work was off a little. He asked me if I had changed his diet and I said yes. I had switched him from California Natural lamb and rice to NV. He asked me to go back to feeding him his CN. I switched back to CN and the vet retested him. All of his blood values were back in line and the crystals were were gone. I have spoken to others who fed NV and had problems with crystals in the urine. Therefore, I have been very leery of feeding my 15 month old boy NV. Thanks for the tip on digestive enzymes. I give my boy Dr. Becker's probiotics but have ever considered the enzymes. Do you think that the liver or pancreas would reduce their production of enzymes if enzymes are artificially added to each meal by the pet owner? Thanks.

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LindaH

· #12 · Oct 17, 2011 (Edited)

Seriously, really hate to hear that. I had to take Parker off CN as he war throwing it up too much. One nite he threw up what looked like his whole meal 6 hrs after feeding it. That is when I took him off all CN. Just didnt think a meal should still be on his stomach and still well formed after 6 hrs. I only rotate different NVI protein kibbles and Acana kibble. Were you feeding Instinct or Prairie? Which meat protein did you feed? Thanks for telling me your experience, I will mention this to my vet. I have wondered the same thing about the enzymes and probiotics myself. That is something we need to find out. I do think they have an effect and shouldnt be given everyday unless needed, like for a problem like your boy has. But dont know if you should give everyday even for that. Got to have Parkers pancreas checked as it didnt get done at his annual. I will write myself a note. I am very sorry about your loosing your boy.

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Sage

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 18, 2011 (Edited)

LindaH said:
Seriously, really hate to hear that. I had to take Parker off CN as he war throwing it up too much. One nite he threw up what looked like his whole meal 6 hrs after feeding it. That is when I took him off all CN. Just didnt think a meal should still be on his stomach and still well formed after 6 hrs. I only rotate different NVI protein kibbles and Acana kibble. Were you feeding Instinct or Prairie? Which meat protein did you feed? Thanks for telling me your experience, I will mention this to my vet. I have wondered the same thing about the enzymes and probiotics myself. That is something we need to find out. I do think they have an effect and shouldnt be given everyday unless needed, like for a problem like your boy has. But dont know if you should give everyday even for that. Got to have Parkers pancreas checked as it didnt get done at his annual. I will write myself a note. I am very sorry about your loosing your boy.

Linda:

My 15 month old boy had a test done that confirmed his pancreas is working properly, so I have just limited myself to using the probiotics each day. I fed my RIP 10 year old boy NV Prairie. I rotated between venison, lamb, and chicken kibble. I used rabbit, which he loved, lamb, and chicken frozen raw patties. Thanks for the condolences. He was diagnosed in March with lung cancer and had to be put down in April. Lung cancer was very aggressive despite chemotherapy treatments. I have no clue as to how he contracted lung cancer. No one in my house smokes.

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Jhagman

· #14 · Oct 18, 2011

This thread was helpful to me as I have Dexter in the vets off tonite forevaluation.

Vet said new chicken treats with some rawhide might be reason for the vomit, lack of eating, diarrhea, and listlessness

Vet said many dogs have allergies to chicken which I hadn't known.

I just switched him to taste of wild salmon a month ago, but he does have funnier stools.

Maybe we go back to 4health lamb.

This thread was very helpful, hope your dobe is feeling better soon!

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DoubleDogDare

· #15 · Oct 18, 2011

My guy has had chronic stool problems since we brought him home. I tried Blue Buffalo, TOTW Pacific Stream, Flint River Ranch, and Nutro UltraHolistics. We just never could get decent stools, even with SLOW SLOW switches. After a particularly bad bout with explosive diarrhea, my vet put him on GI rest for a day, did antibiotics, and put him on Hills ID prescription chicken and rice diet for a week. Lo and behold, normal poop. We've now got him on Nutro Chicken, Rice & Oatmeal, and his stools are consistently good. I've heard nightmarish things about Nutro and their foods. But we can't find anything else that he'll tolerate, aside from Purina Dog Chow, which I categorically refuse to feed my dog.

Lori Z

· #16 · Oct 18, 2011

Eli has had many troubles over his three years. They are loathe to say he has chronic pancretitis but he certainly has had bouts of it. He can only eat Acana Ranchlands mixed with some Acana Pairie. He can not eat anything else and at this point my vet says I am not to change dog food. He has been on this a year now. He can not eat raw bones, he can not eat most dog food and he can not eat raw. He can eat cooked meats with sweet potato, broth and rice which is what he can have when he has an episode. He had been on metro. several times plus other medicine. The last episode was about 6 months when I gave him a raw knuckle bone to chew on thinking maybe he could handle it now, nope. Too much for his system. So, I keep him on the Acana and he is perfect.

I use dehydrated chicken or cooked pieces for treats. Eli does the diarrhea/vomiting then not eating which is frightening. It can last for days and he needs treatment when he start the vomiting, even bile he will throw up and then he can't eat. One time he lost over 10lbs. Therefore I now just keep him on the Acana and let it go at that, it works for him, his stools are perfect and it suits him well. I tired over the years Purnia sensitive stomach, I tried natual balance (for a long time) limited ingredients and I think Hills. I got Acana because someone on here recommended it. I switched him over while he was taking metro. to make the transistion easier. I mixed it with his homemade food at first and finally fed it alone and it was perfect, for him at least.

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Sage

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 18, 2011

DoubleDogDare said:
My guy has had chronic stool problems since we brought him home. I tried Blue Buffalo, TOTW Pacific Stream, Flint River Ranch, and Nutro UltraHolistics. We just never could get decent stools, even with SLOW SLOW switches. After a particularly bad bout with explosive diarrhea, my vet put him on GI rest for a day, did antibiotics, and put him on Hills ID prescription chicken and rice diet for a week. Lo and behold, normal poop. We've now got him on Nutro Chicken, Rice & Oatmeal, and his stools are consistently good. I've heard nightmarish things about Nutro and their foods. But we can't find anything else that he'll tolerate, aside from Purina Dog Chow, which I categorically refuse to feed my dog.

Thanks for sharing this experience. If my boy's system does not return to normal on California Natural, I may move away from premium foods and try something loke Purina Pro Plan sensitive stomach & skin. I will do some research on Nutro lamb & rice. Someone will a blue dobe had trouble with loose stools and Nutro lamb & rice solved the problem. Last night my boy ate two cups of his CN and this morning he ate 1 cup. He is gradually eating the CN. I have been leaving it down for 10 minutes and taking it way if he does not eat it. This approach seems to be effective in getting him to eat although he is not eating the 4 cups per day yet that he used to eat.

Sage

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 18, 2011 (Edited)

Lori Z said:
Eli has had many troubles over his three years. They are loathe to say he has chronic pancretitis but he certainly has had bouts of it. He can only eat Acana Ranchlands mixed with some Acana Pairie. He can not eat anything else and at this point my vet says I am not to change dog food. He has been on this a year now. He can not eat raw bones, he can not eat most dog food and he can not eat raw. He can eat cooked meats with sweet potato, broth and rice which is what he can have when he has an episode. He had been on metro. several times plus other medicine. The last episode was about 6 months when I gave him a raw knuckle bone to chew on thinking maybe he could handle it now, nope. Too much for his system. So, I keep him on the Acana and he is perfect.

I use dehydrated chicken or cooked pieces for treats. Eli does the diarrhea/vomiting then not eating which is frightening. It can last for days and he needs treatment when he start the vomiting, even bile he will throw up and then he can't eat. One time he lost over 10lbs. Therefore I now just keep him on the Acana and let it go at that, it works for him, his stools are perfect and it suits him well. I tired over the years Purnia sensitive stomach, I tried natual balance (for a long time) limited ingredients and I think Hills. I got Acana because someone on here recommended it. I switched him over while he was taking metro. to make the transistion easier. I mixed it with his homemade food at first and finally fed it alone and it was perfect, for him at least.

Lori:

I'm curious to know if Natural Balance limited ingredient diet worked for your boy. It seems popular because it has a variety of different protein limited ingredient based kibbles. How did your boy do on Purina sensitive stomach & skin? I think its smart to stay with something that works. I should have done that and never tried TOTW. He was doing well on CN. I was hoping TOTW would not require that probiotics be added, but he needed them anyway.Thanks.

Sage

Discussion Starter · #19 · Oct 18, 2011

Jhagman said:
This thread was helpful to me as I have Dexter in the vets off tonite forevaluation.

Vet said new chicken treats with some rawhide might be reason for the vomit, lack of eating, diarrhea, and listlessness

Vet said many dogs have allergies to chicken which I hadn't known.

I just switched him to taste of wild salmon a month ago, but he does have funnier stools.

Maybe we go back to 4health lamb.

This thread was very helpful, hope your dobe is feeling better soon!

My boy liked the taste of TOTW but his stools were soft logs, never firm. And his stools normal had a very pungent smell. It appeared that he was not processing the food completely.

dragonflyz

· #20 · Oct 18, 2011

I had a mastiff with IBS and she never did well with thehigh end foods, the better the food the worse her poops got! I think sometimes those food are just to rich for the dogs systems to handle (Just my personal opinion) Maybe try a lesser food like pro plan, I know it works for many people on here. Good luck!

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