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Hello, my name is Gary, I am the owner of The Doberman Pack. I have just been notified by my daughter that we have been under vicious attack by some people on this site. This is going to be my first and last post, because what i have witnessed over the past hour by reading your input and the vicious attacks you have launched on my family and specifically the insults directed at my daughter, who was trying to defend us, makes me want to throw up.

First of all, let me aquaint you with my project. I have loved dobermans all of my life and this whole project started when we decided to take in a rescue female. I decided to breed her to my dog damien in the future to provide family pets to other people who love the breed but, who were not interested in a show dog.

One day my daughter found a "Breeder" who was downsizing his program, and we decided to check out the females he was offering. What we found horified us! His dogs were in terrible condition, underfed, dirty, and we suspect they were beaten based on there behavior and appearance. We could not leave these dogs with this man. So I made arrangements to purchase as many of his dogs as I could. I purchased Delilah, a german line who really needed to get out of there. But by the time I picked her up she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards, I arranged to purchase three more of his females. Once again, when I picked them up, one of them was pregnant.

This left me with two litters of puppys from "rescued" dogs, even though he considered it a purchase, and believe me he charged me accordingly. My thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.

This blue doberman, Sadie, went into heat at the same time as our other female who I was planning to breed with Damien, so I bred both of them. At that time, since I was breeding for family pets and not for any circuit or competition, I did not do any health testing. This includes Damien.

At this time, I am not sure if Sadie or Daisy are infact pregnant. We have sold the first litter of pups from Delilah's litter, and Dazzle is due in about a week. We rehomed Delilah to a man who runs a breeding program for huskys and operates a rescue. He took her to be his house dog and she is in the best home that anyone could ever hope for. She is going to be spayed and we have just been informed that she has been registered/certified as an emotional support dog.

To date that has been the extent of my breeding project. I have not produced a single puppy yet. I have had a litter and another one on the way from this other breeders stock. I don't know if any health tests were done or much of anything else about these puppys. I will sell these puppies to people who would like a family pet, the potential buyers will be informed of the situation on where these puppies came from and the papers will have limited breeding rights, as I do not want to damage the breed in any way.

Which brings me to the reason I am posting this. When I had the idea to breed, I did not take into consideration the damage that somebody like me could do to this magnificent breed. I did not do any health testing on these dogs, and that is one thing that I am going to correct immediatly! I have set appointments to have Damien, Sadie, and Daisy tested for Cardiomyopathy, Hip Dysplasia, Hypothyroidism, VonWillebrand's Disease, Wobblers Syndrome, and CERF. If I find any of these health problems then I will spay or neuter accordingly. If any of these health problems are present then the puppies from the litter will have limited breeding rights as they should not be bred. Also any findings will be relayed to any potential buyer prior to the purchase.

In my opinion, this is the most ethical approach to breeding dogs that have no champion lines, trophys, or "royal blood." And since they are bred in my yard and not in a breeding facility that caters to royalty, I find this to be a suitable program for breeding family pets for companionship, loyalty, and home protection.

Our dogs will never be in any type of venue or hold any titles but, they are not bred for that as they don't fit the breed standard. Damien is about 120 lbs. and contrary to some of your opinions he does not look "stupid" he is a beautiful, well-behaved, faithful, and loving member of my family.

Most of your comments I find to be incredibly rude, obnoxious, childish, and just plain out mean. I mean what is wrong with the oldest dog in my house being four years old. Also two males living with a bunch of bitches makes you feel sorry for my dogs? Are you on drugs? My two males are litter mates and best friends. The smaller of the two males, Demon, has been neutered and we have no issues, whatsoever, with having two males in the same house.

Many of you also decided to attack the one person who tried to defend The Doberman Pack by calling her childish names and insulting her beyond anything I have ever seen before. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You represent yourselves on this site as being experts, and people come here looking for your expert advice, but when they see your childish attacks, that are totally unjustified in many cases, it voids your credibility in the eyes of people who could've been helped.

As for me even though your vicious and unwarranted attacks on my personal character made me tremble with anger, I still see valid points being made that I should have seen before I started this. That is why even though I think many of you are totally despicable, I have listened to the advice that will prevent me from making more mistakes in turning this into a bigger mess then it needs to be.

I have listened to some of the advice from some of the members here. For example, sreed12 made a very good point on testing. Where as most of the input on me was nothing more then insulting character assassination. You know what im saying don't you Sinister? I mean emergency spay? Are you serious? You claim to love this breed yet you would advocate killing entire litters of these beautiful animals because you feel they are unworthy to have a chance at life? There was a man in history who thought in the same way as you back in the 1930s and 1940s and it didn't turn out to well for him. Other posters such as Patchworkrobot should probably just get a life away from the computer for a while. I mean seriously step away from the keyboard and go pet your dog.

There was another member or two on this site who felt it was necessary to actually purchase a copy of Damien's pedigree, WTF? What was you hoping to accomplish by this? Did you think that by showing that there were no champion lines here that maybe i would euthanize my dogs or something? I just dont understand what the point was Avianantics.

The bottom line is this. My dogs are not ever going to be world champions but they will be extremely happy, loved, and healthy. Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures. I would like to thank you for pointing out, even if it was very crudely, the mistakes I have made and the mistakes that I was about to make. And with that I will leave you to tear this apart and bash and trash me once again as I know you will because that is what you do best. By the way, Rottenvonspotten if your great dane is smaller then my Damien then maybe you should try feeding that dog.
 

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Vicious Bitch.
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Call me out? The beginning of your post makes me sick. Then I read about the health testing and I felt like you could turn yourself around. But no titling, killed it. Have you ever titled a dog?? Ever been to a conformation show?? Agility trial? Schutzhund trial? Its amazing and a lot of fun. You're just ignorant. Which can be taken whatever way you want.

And HELL YES I would emergency spay anything rather than MAKE A QUICK BUCK or put that poor animal through birthing and raising. That takes a lot out of an animal!!
 

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Hello, my name is Gary, I am the owner of The Doberman Pack. I have just been notified by my daughter that we have been under vicious attack by some people on this site. This is going to be my first and last post, because what i have witnessed over the past hour by reading your input and the vicious attacks you have launched on my family and specifically the insults directed at my daughter, who was trying to defend us, makes me want to throw up.

First of all, let me aquaint you with my project. I have loved dobermans all of my life and this whole project started when we decided to take in a rescue female. I decided to breed her to my dog damien in the future to provide family pets to other people who love the breed but, who were not interested in a show dog.

One day my daughter found a "Breeder" who was downsizing his program, and we decided to check out the females he was offering. What we found horified us! His dogs were in terrible condition, underfed, dirty, and we suspect they were beaten based on there behavior and appearance. We could not leave these dogs with this man. So I made arrangements to purchase as many of his dogs as I could. I purchased Delilah, a german line who really needed to get out of there. But by the time I picked her up she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards, I arranged to purchase three more of his females. Once again, when I picked them up, one of them was pregnant.

This left me with two litters of puppys from "rescued" dogs, even though he considered it a purchase, and believe me he charged me accordingly. My thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.

This blue doberman, Sadie, went into heat at the same time as our other female who I was planning to breed with Damien, so I bred both of them. At that time, since I was breeding for family pets and not for any circuit or competition, I did not do any health testing. This includes Damien.

At this time, I am not sure if Sadie or Daisy are infact pregnant. We have sold the first litter of pups from Delilah's litter, and Dazzle is due in about a week. We rehomed Delilah to a man who runs a breeding program for huskys and operates a rescue. He took her to be his house dog and she is in the best home that anyone could ever hope for. She is going to be spayed and we have just been informed that she has been registered/certified as an emotional support dog.

To date that has been the extent of my breeding project. I have not produced a single puppy yet. I have had a litter and another one on the way from this other breeders stock. I don't know if any health tests were done or much of anything else about these puppys. I will sell these puppies to people who would like a family pet, the potential buyers will be informed of the situation on where these puppies came from and the papers will have limited breeding rights, as I do not want to damage the breed in any way.

Which brings me to the reason I am posting this. When I had the idea to breed, I did not take into consideration the damage that somebody like me could do to this magnificent breed. I did not do any health testing on these dogs, and that is one thing that I am going to correct immediatly! I have set appointments to have Damien, Sadie, and Daisy tested for Cardiomyopathy, Hip Dysplasia, Hypothyroidism, VonWillebrand's Disease, Wobblers Syndrome, and CERF. If I find any of these health problems then I will spay or neuter accordingly. If any of these health problems are present then the puppies from the litter will have limited breeding rights as they should not be bred. Also any findings will be relayed to any potential buyer prior to the purchase.

In my opinion, this is the most ethical approach to breeding dogs that have no champion lines, trophys, or "royal blood." And since they are bred in my yard and not in a breeding facility that caters to royalty, I find this to be a suitable program for breeding family pets for companionship, loyalty, and home protection.

Our dogs will never be in any type of venue or hold any titles but, they are not bred for that as they don't fit the breed standard. Damien is about 120 lbs. and contrary to some of your opinions he does not look "stupid" he is a beautiful, well-behaved, faithful, and loving member of my family.
Most of your comments I find to be incredibly rude, obnoxious, childish, and just plain out mean. I mean what is wrong with the oldest dog in my house being four years old. Also two males living with a bunch of bitches makes you feel sorry for my dogs? Are you on drugs? My two males are litter mates and best friends. The smaller of the two males, Demon, has been neutered and we have no issues, whatsoever, with having two males in the same house.

Many of you also decided to attack the one person who tried to defend The Doberman Pack by calling her childish names and insulting her beyond anything I have ever seen before. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You represent yourselves on this site as being experts, and people come here looking for your expert advice, but when they see your childish attacks, that are totally unjustified in many cases, it voids your credibility in the eyes of people who could've been helped.

As for me even though your vicious and unwarranted attacks on my personal character made me tremble with anger, I still see valid points being made that I should have seen before I started this. That is why even though I think many of you are totally despicable, I have listened to the advice that will prevent me from making more mistakes in turning this into a bigger mess then it needs to be.

I have listened to some of the advice from some of the members here. For example, sreed12 made a very good point on testing. Where as most of the input on me was nothing more then insulting character assassination. You know what im saying don't you Sinister? I mean emergency spay? Are you serious? You claim to love this breed yet you would advocate killing entire litters of these beautiful animals because you feel they are unworthy to have a chance at life? There was a man in history who thought in the same way as you back in the 1930s and 1940s and it didn't turn out to well for him. Other posters such as Patchworkrobot should probably just get a life away from the computer for a while. I mean seriously step away from the keyboard and go pet your dog.

There was another member or two on this site who felt it was necessary to actually purchase a copy of Damien's pedigree, WTF? What was you hoping to accomplish by this? Did you think that by showing that there were no champion lines here that maybe i would euthanize my dogs or something? I just dont understand what the point was Avianantics.

The bottom line is this. My dogs are not ever going to be world champions but they will be extremely happy, loved, and healthy. Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures. I would like to thank you for pointing out, even if it was very crudely, the mistakes I have made and the mistakes that I was about to make. And with that I will leave you to tear this apart and bash and trash me once again as I know you will because that is what you do best. By the way, Rottenvonspotten if your great dane is smaller then my Damien then maybe you should try feeding that dog.
This is EXACTLY what people who love the breed try to avoid... There is no way to "ethically" breed these types of dogs. People who love dogs, and are going to breed responsibly, breed to the standard... You admit your dogs are NOT to the standard, come from sub-par linneage, and you haven't done any health testing, and you are selling dogs to recoup the purchase price... I'm sorry, but any way you look at it, this is what a BYB does. Simply put, there is no responsible breeder or any breed that woudl do these things, they woudl have just spayed/neutered their pets. I'm not saying their not good dogs, and I'm not saying they shouldn't be loved, and I'm sure they make amazing family pets. But, they have no business being bred. Not to mention you're breeding dilutes, with the other things I mentioned above...

I'm not against someone breeding, but I AM against someone breeding dogs that shouldn't be bred. The shelters, rescues, kill facilities, etc. are full of dogs that were bred to be "family pets". Good breeders breed dogs that have finished in some venue, and if the dogs don't finish, they don't breed them. They search far and wide for suitable mates, and almost never own both. This is considered a breeding of convenience... How does breeding these 2 dogs together make the breed better? If you breed 2 out of breed dogs, are the puppies going to be even further out of the standard? Are you aware with the health risks of breeding oversized dogs?

There's alot to consider when you make the decision to breed, and it's easy to see you're upset, but the way you are going about this is not going to get you support from any true dog lovers, regardless of what dogs they love. If you do things the right way, you will see that you would have a ton of help, support, advice, etc. But it sounds like your dogs should just be fixed, and enjoy your time with them as family pets.
 

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There are too many dogs in shelters that need homes already. By you breeding 'pet' quality, your not accomplishing anything. If you want a pet quality dog, adopt. There is a reason why there is a breeding license, a reason for titling, showing, and gaining points: to better the breed. How do we better the breed? Stay within standards, show that your dog is worthy by accomplishing titles that highlight the breeds purpose, conformation, workability, and athleticism, and these traits are usually found in Champion bloodlines.

Thank you for adopting your dogs and giving them a great home. But please, don't breed pet quality dogs. Just enjoy the dogs you have already, and if someone asks about litters, point them towards a rescue or shelter.
 

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mastiffied
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Any puppies that I produce will be produced following ethical procedures.
Ethical procedures would include trying to preserve the integrity of the breed you are contributing to. If no one cared if their dogs met the standard because they're not going to be world champions, Dobermans would eventually stop looking like Dobermans. With a 120lb stud dog, you're well on your way to making that happen.

People that choose purebred dogs for companionship deserve healthy, beautiful, well tempered animals. Please don't use the "I'm breeding for pets only" as an excuse to cut corners and set the bar low for your breeding stock.

Ethical procedures also include thorough screening of potential homes so that puppies you produce do not end up abused, neglected, or dumped.
 

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Ameteur Houdini
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"Pet's Only" Hahaha. I would think that families who want "pets" want to have one that will live past 4 or 5 years. :idea: Ya know, the ones real breeders help create...the healthy and conformationally correct ones.

If you aren't breeding to the Doberman Breed standard, in essence, you are breeding a mutt with a "Doberman" label. Has it ever occurred to you that you are helping put MORE young dogs into the same situations that you "rescued" those two females from? It's a paradox, really. If you really cared about those doberman girls, you would have realized that you couldn't afford to "rescue" them (since, obviously, you had to recoup expenses), and contacted a doberman rescue group. If they were really being abused, maybe contacted Animal Control for animal abuse? It's understandable, we all make mistakes. We want to do things ourselves. Now is the time that you can, not "fix" but partially mend the mistakes you made. Spay and neuter your animals. Find new homes for them if you can't afford to feed them. Maybe volunteer at an animal shelter for a month? Make the right choice.
 

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NO one ever said that you don't love your dogs, and they are not great pets. We all love Dobermans and we're sure that they are. Does that mean they should be bred? No.

What if one of your dogs DOES have DCM? What if the litter of puppies is affected by DCM? Will you go ahead and sell them to a family only to have them lose their dog in as little as a year or two? And for money?

I guess what makes us upset is that we love the breed so much; and you're only putting your two dogs together who carry no trait to further improve the breed in order to make some money. You yourself say that you love creating pets for people to buy. An ethical person would understand that there is no need in this world to just breed for pets. We have shelters full of dogs (yes, you CAN find numerous purebred Dobes that need homes in shelters), and they're getting euthanized every day.

So, using your own example, you state that you want to sell your dogs on limited breeding rights because you "don't want to damage the breed in any way." How are you more qualified than those you sell your dogs to in the realm of breeding?
 

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joie de vivre
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Hi TheDobermanPack.

How much do you sell your pups for?
 

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_______
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In this day and age if you aren't health testing or able to take back EVERY ONE of the puppies you produce should they have to be rehomed you've no business breeding.

There are plenty of smokin' hot sweet tempered dogs w/no health testing and products of greedy breeding out there in shelters already and not enough good homes to go around.

Do you have homes lined up already for all these puppies? Are you going to screen homes by a kiss & a prayer?

And pulling out Hitler references makes people look like fools, like this world needs another litter of byb dogs to fill up shelters for the gas chamber. FAIL.
 

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Got mutt?
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Oh, come on people. Those bitches OBVIOUSLY owe him for "rescuing" them Of course they have to pump out a couple more litters each to justify the money he forked over for them.

I did notice that one of his "rescues" was being touted as being from "great German lines". If she was truly a "rescue" her pups should have been offered as such for a nominal fee, just enough to cover the cost of a spay, or else turned over to a legitimate rescue group.
 

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Get the bunnies!
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Couldn't be bothered reading past this >

y thought was to sell these puppies to cover the cost of rescuing these dogs. One of these rescues was a beautiful blue which I decided to keep and breed with my dog Damien.
How awful is that?! Oh I saved your life, now to repay me... Let me plunder your uterus!
 
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