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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, Gracie knows sit and down. (pretty basic I know) When I tell her to sit she will for the most part, but after I tell her to sit so many times she will lay down. It only takes 2 or 3 times while I am working with her to do this. So anyways how do I correct this? Every thing I have tried doesn't work. She knows what both mean and how to do them, but it seems like she wants to get the upper hand and not play the game obediance learning. I would also like to know that my dog is smart enough to figure out that when I say sit I mean sit and when I say down I mean down. I never have a problem with down at all. It's just this stupid sit thing..

Also when she does this she starts pawing at me to play with her. Is it because training isn't fun enough for her and she would rather drive me crazy and if so what can I do to make it more fun? I try giving treats but she doesn't understand the treat training to much. Lol.

Help please!
 

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Can't think of anything off the top of my head other than maybe she's bored from too much repetition... You could have been inadvertanly reinforcing this behavior and will have to unteach what you've accidently taught... I'm reading a book by Jean Donaldson "The Culture Clash" and so far think it's awesome. Really goes into detail on why dogs behave the way they do and how they learn best through operant conditioning... Might give you some insight on what's going on in her beautiful mind <g> and how to motivate her to perform what you know she knows....
 

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i think she may also be alittle bored with the repetition try teaching her something new and in short intervals broken up with playtime :)Harvey also tries to paw me and as soon as he does this i walk away give him ten mintues and then start over. He usually does this pawing when im putting his lead on and he is about to burst with excitement so he only has to do it once and he realises if he dont stop he aint going nowhere lol ..

you say gracie lays down after you tell her to sit.. Harvey is very food orientated and this works great for training as he will do anything for it. some dogs respond very well to a good fuss and others respond to a clicker.

I have had to get tough with Harvey and really stand up and take control but also be a fun person to be around for him.

I use a short sharp command and if he dosent do it he doesnt get a treat and will be ignored. when gracie is sitting use an authoritive voice and get her to sit..as soon as you see she is moving to lay down repeat the command
and usally they will snap back into position again..its timimg it right so as to treat the sit but not the laying down :)
 

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its timimg it right so as to treat the sit but not the laying down
This is where I find that the clicker comes in so handy. Chi learned real fast that the click marked the desired behavior. I can click alot fast than getting a treat to her or even verbal praise. Of course verbal praise always follows the click and most of the time a treat does too <g> but at this point she knows that what ever she's doing when she hears the click is what I want her to do...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Okay I will keep working on it with her. When she does lay down how do I get her back up to a sit? If I just say sit she does nothing except lay there and paw at me. Do I walk away and have her come then put her in a sit all over again or do I leave her alone for 10 minutes or so? I only ask because all the training I went through says to make them do the final command before you walk away. If they don't want to do it, you can't let them get their way.
 

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With our training, we use the food reward. We also incorporate hand signals before we attach it with the command word. Hand signals are easier for the dogs to understand. So once they understand the hand signal, you can attach the command word to it. The process we use is Command word--> Hand signal-->Mark it---->Reward.

Mark it is the clicker or a mark word. We use "Yes" as our mark word. Its like taking a picture, a snap shot. Once she hears the word "Yes", she gets the reward. That way she knows she done it right and a treat is on its way. Some times in not as easy to get a treat out and you want to let her know she done it right. A treat that is delayed might mean something else to her. For example, If she sits and by the time I give her a treat, she is standing again, I just rewarded her for standing and not the sit.

Short training session are best used. I usually only spend about 10 to 15 minutes on one exercise before we switch to another one. Just to keep her from getting bored.

If she gets sloppy, just doing slow, or takes multiple commands, she gets no reward, but I do praise her for doing it though. When she does it on the first time or very quickly, she gets a bigger payout. Giving them three treats instead of one treat is a bonus to them. Even though it might be the one treat I split into three pieces. Its the quantity of the treat they remember.

With the sit command, we use the hand signal of raising my hand over her head. We first had a treat in the hand. So when I lifted it over her head, she sat down trying to watch the treat. She learned that that hand movement meant sit. So once she begain to follow that hand movement on a regular basis, I attached the word sit to it. After doing this for some time, start to phase out the hand signal to see if she gets the command word. Switch it up with the command word and hand signal.

I hope this can help.
 

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With getting her back to a sit position from a down position, use the treat as a lure at first. Thats how we get our girl to do what we want for the first time. Once she does it the first time, the hand motion we used with the lure is the hand signal she understand what we want her to do. Now when she is in a down position, we use the hand signal for sit to get her back in the sit position.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
TracyJo said:
Little slow my foot! She's learned how to get you to switch over to training with yummies!!! LOL
But the yummies wont be staying for very long. I hate using treats to get her to learn though.. So I won't use them very much. Or atleast if I can help it. :)
 

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Thats right, I forgot to mention about the treats. The concept of treat rewards is to be a vending machine, at first, then after she is getting it, you become a slot machine with the treats. Using it as a lure, gets them to do want you want. Then the treat is a reward. They learn if I do that, I get treat. Reinenforce that behavior. Once they get it, reward every third time or so. Then space the rewards even further. They will think if I keep doing this, I will eventually get a treat. So when they don't get a treat each time, they will continue to repeat this because they will think, maybe next time I will get one. Sorry I forgot to mention this before.
 

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Sasha use to and still does the sit, sit, sit, ahhhh screw it im laying down now thing. now if she does it i specifically tell her to sit back up or bring her to a stand position and back to sit. she hates doing it all over again so she has started getting the hang of when mom say sit she means sit not lay down. goofy girls i tell ya. maybe we should get Gracie and Sasha together and see if they can figure it out on their own....lol:rolleyesw
 

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When my babies were little we used food too. But now we also use the slot machine training. Sometimes a treat follows sometimes not but always lots of praise.. We also use hand signals with word.. it really helped the sit or maybe Mom wanted me to down, but the one thing we make use we do in the training is the command hand is done once and only once.. if the reaction is not done then we make them do it.. so like if we ask for a sit and they do not do it right away we put them in a sit first with a sharp NO Sit and phycially make them sit.. Good luck! I am not sure some times who is training whom.. LOL
 
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