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Discussion Starter #41
I'm just saying that those prices are obscene. I spoke with a highly recommended breeder around here (a lot of people on this forum have dogs from her) and her asking price for a pet quality pup, already cropped, titled, all of the proper health testing, and 100% breeder support was $2500. And the waiting list wasn't crazy either.
I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong), that pups from your recommended breeder weren't titled and had proper health testing, but that it was the parents. And BTW I didn't pay $2,000 for my dog, but I did get 100% breeder support and a 3 year health guarantee. 馃檮 What do you think a pet quality pup from second or third generation champions, where the immediate parents were genetically tested, should cost? Or do you think only first generation of titled Dobermans should exist?

When I interact on rescue forums, the response is much different. I've taken in many dogs and cats over 2 decades that would've been put to sleep. This is my first purebred, and I'm being excoriated here because I didn't choose the "right" breeder for a companion dog, and I didn't pay $2500.

Again, if only pups from titled and genetically cleared Dobermans were bred as companion dogs, the breed would be extinct.
Lol. Let's nit pick, shall we? Obviously I meant the parents of the pups - as well as grand parents & great grand parents. You may have avoided the upfront expenses of a very expensive breed, but it is very unlikely that you won't run into major health issues down the road. And yeah, I guess pumping out hundreds of "okay" Dobermans that may or may not drop dead at 4 years old is an excellent way to keep the breed from going extinct. I understand that you made a mistake (although you are fighting like crazy to defend it), and I was not chastising you for that mistake. I was simply stating that the prices are clearly listed on her website and they are obscene for an "okay" dog. That was it. I did not insult you or say anything negative about you /at all/. Just that the price that they are asking is way too much.

And just as a side note, I rescue too. I foster puppies, young dogs, old dogs. I have helped dogs overcome mange and heartworms, extreme neglect, abuse. In fact, none of my (4) dogs have come from a breeder. I also train several dogs for free each year that come straight out of kill shelters and keep them until a home can be found. I do my part. I deal with the heartache that occasionally follows. But fighting to defend a puppy mill in order to save face is not necessary. No body is saying that your dog isn't the greatest dog in the world - to you. It's just that supporting shoddy breeding practices should be avoided the next go round. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 

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Again, if only pups from titled and genetically cleared Dobermans were bred as companion dogs, the breed would be extinct.
No, we simply wouldn't have rescues full of unwanted dobermans from ill like hinge, kimbertal, trinity and many many other crappy breeders who breed for nothing more than the cash money the reproductive organs of the dogs he owns makes for him.

You want to support those types of people hey power to you. But don't get all preachy and tout how great your breeder is when the reality of it is they haven't got a Schmick about what they're really doing (beyond knowing how to 'sell' puppies).

Price isn't what sets dogs and breeders apart. It's about caring. It's about knowledge, it's about the dogs and health and so many other little things.

You've got your mind set and that's fine. Don't expect others with more experience and knowledge to support your position. Don't expect people to. It correct your assumptions and position so that others don't end up making the same choices you have.

This forum supports ethical breeding practices....
 

Got mutt?
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Thanks for completely missing my point! ��
No, I got your point. However, you seem to have missed mine.

Your point: getting a dog from a breeder who doesn't put any more effort into breeding than boy dog + girl dog = puppies, and maybe do enough of the lowest cost, easiest health testing possible is fine.

My point: a breeder should be doing everything in their power to breed the healthiest dogs with the soundest, sanest temperaments that they can. That includes things like titling their dogs in conformation and/or performance events, and doing the recommended health testing for that breed.

When I have a spayed rescue mutt (who has a few screws loose) with more titles than every dog in a three generation pedigree of a dog from places like this, it tells me a lot about how much thought and care went into their breeding decisions.
 

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Did you ever consider rescuing a Dobe if all you were looking for was a companion dog? I'm on my 4th rescue Dobe, it's amazing what gems there are to be found that people so casually throw away once the novelty has worn off. :wink2:
I did. ;) I started looking for a large breed dog to add to our family when I found out my SPCA rescue dog was on borrowed time due to Canine degenerative myelopathy. I've adopted 5 dogs from rescues over 20 years. Kept all of them until they died of natural causes or had to be sent over the Rainbow Bridge. None of them were easy to let go because I loved each and every one. I have never thrown away an animal, no matter how challenging they were. But I didn't find any that were a right fit for my family. But I appreciate, and commend you for your concern about adopting rescues.
 

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Lol. Let's nit pick, shall we? Obviously I meant the parents of the pups - as well as grand parents & great grand parents. You may have avoided the upfront expenses of a very expensive breed, but it is very unlikely that you won't run into major health issues down the road. And yeah, I guess pumping out hundreds of "okay" Dobermans that may or may not drop dead at 4 years old is an excellent way to keep the breed from going extinct. I understand that you made a mistake (although you are fighting like crazy to defend it), and I was not chastising you for that mistake. I was simply stating that the prices are clearly listed on her website and they are obscene for an "okay" dog. That was it. I did not insult you or say anything negative about you /at all/. Just that the price that they are asking is way too much.

And just as a side note, I rescue too. I foster puppies, young dogs, old dogs. I have helped dogs overcome mange and heartworms, extreme neglect, abuse. In fact, none of my (4) dogs have come from a breeder. I also train several dogs for free each year that come straight out of kill shelters and keep them until a home can be found. I do my part. I deal with the heartache that occasionally follows. But fighting to defend a puppy mill in order to save face is not necessary. No body is saying that your dog isn't the greatest dog in the world - to you. It's just that supporting shoddy breeding practices should be avoided the next go round. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Okay. Let's not nit-pick, but dont cast aspersions either. I AM being chastised for not getting my dog from a 'Doberman Talk approved breeder'. My issue is that there is a distinct hostile attitude by the members here, that unless an AKC Doberman is purchased from a kennel that titles all the parents, health tests for every possible issue, has one litter a year, and prices the AKC pups without breeding rights for more than $2000, then we are part of the problem.

Again, I ask, if only Dobermans that meet all of the criteria listed above, how will the breed survive?
 

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No, we simply wouldn't have rescues full of unwanted dobermans from ill like hinge, kimbertal, trinity and many many other crappy breeders who breed for nothing more than the cash money the reproductive organs of the dogs he owns makes for him.

You want to support those types of people hey power to you. But don't get all preachy and tout how great your breeder is when the reality of it is they haven't got a Schmick about what they're really doing (beyond knowing how to 'sell' puppies).

Price isn't what sets dogs and breeders apart. It's about caring. It's about knowledge, it's about the dogs and health and so many other little things.

You've got your mind set and that's fine. Don't expect others with more experience and knowledge to support your position. Don't expect people to. It correct your assumptions and position so that others don't end up making the same choices you have.

This forum supports ethical breeding practices....
Oh my, where to start. :grin2:

You're calling me preachy? Lol! Look in the mirror. You also have your mind set. 馃槈 I'm not touting my breeder, just saying why I chose that one. But I get the feeling here that any breeder chosen by people viewing this site that doesn't meet the long term members' criteria are belittled, and only accepted if they repent, admit their mistake, and *swearsies* they will only get a Doberman from an acceptable breeder or Doberman rescue by anonymous people on an Internet forum. I particularly like your ominous warning that "others" here with "more experience and knowledge" "know better" and won't support people's position that doesn't adhere to the herd's disdain 馃檮

And what is a "Schmick"?

Oh wait , I found it. :). Urban Dictionary: schmick

I'll take that as a compliment. 馃槉
 

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No, I got your point. However, you seem to have missed mine.

Your point: getting a dog from a breeder who doesn't put any more effort into breeding than boy dog + girl dog = puppies, and maybe do enough of the lowest cost, easiest health testing possible is fine.

My point: a breeder should be doing everything in their power to breed the healthiest dogs with the soundest, sanest temperaments that they can. That includes things like titling their dogs in conformation and/or performance events, and doing the recommended health testing for that breed.

When I have a spayed rescue mutt (who has a tfew screws loose) with more titles than every dog in a three generation pedigree of a dog from places like this, it tells me a lot about how much thought and care went into their breeding decisions.
No, I didn't miss your point. But thank you for admitting that you believe that only Dobermans breeders with dogs that are titled in conformation or performance events with the acceptable health tests should be bred. Not many people will say their spayed rescue mutt with a few screws loose is better at being titled than a purebred Doberman. If that was the case, your dog wouldn't exist, because obviously not much care went into the breeding of your dog. But you have a great one, yes? Same here. I've seen the parents of my dog and their pedigrees and health tests. But somehow I'm the bad person here. I don't get it. 馃檮
 

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Ah.... Another potential member of the Old Farts Doberman Association! LOL

John
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OFDA
LOL! I got you beat Cressrb--I've only got three more years before I'm out of the 70's and into the 80's and started showing dogs 56 years ago...but I think you should be a charter member.

And you are right--in all those years there have always been some people "who get it" and some who just plain never do "get it".
 

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Ha, well thank you for the invite.
 

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I'm just saying that those prices are obscene. I spoke with a highly recommended breeder around here (a lot of people on this forum have dogs from her) and her asking price for a pet quality pup, already cropped, titled, all of the proper health testing, and 100% breeder support was $2500. And the waiting list wasn't crazy either.
Hello- Can you share which breeder please?
 

Got mutt?
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This thread is nearly five years old, and the person you are quoting hasn't been on in over four years.
 

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^^ Not only that but the prices have changed in most places since this post. @nicky3137 you might want to start your own thread.
 
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