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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I finally conviced John to go to agility class last night, against his will.

Wel he told me when we got home that he wants a dog for himself. A male black/rust stud prospect. He said he would take it to taining.:eek2: Wow. I almost choked. He's always saying that all the training I do with Emma is alot of money.

This is great. Im actualy really excited. He said he wants one in a year because we will have our own place by then.

Here's were it gets interesting. I told him about Nello's Lex Luther because he's in Jazz's pedigree. Well, he wants a dog from them. A lex Luther son, talk about aiming high. I told him I would e-mail them and get some more info on their breeding program and such, wich I did. Im just waiting for a reply. Has anyone delt with them or knows someone who delt with them? What are they like?
 

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Sorry I don't know anything about this breeder. When do you bring Jazz home?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On the 10th of April. But we wont bring another dog home fore about a year after Jazz
 

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Lucky you. :)
 

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I'm going to give this a shot, do what you will with it....

As a mention of advice JennSLK, planning a third dog when you don't even yet have the second and the first is still really a puppy with her own problems, you are setting yourself up for trouble. I know you say that it is going to be your boyfriend's dog, but that really is a moot point. It will be living in the same house as the other two pups.

Being that you plan on showing, getting another pup when the first two aren't finished or even fully trained is just really not even fair to the other dogs. In all fairness, esp, to the dobe pup on the way, she will not be even fully trained or set by the time another pup is coming into her household.

That pup is going to bond with your other two dogs, more than you. It's attention will be on them over you. (or your boyfriend, as you say it is for him, which is even less fair to him, being a novice, not that you are experienced, but I'd bet he is even less so). Training will be harder with the more dogs you have in the household, especially young ones. And training is all the time, everyday, not just when you go to class.

If I were you, I'd take the time to really work through and train what you have now. You have the pup coming in, whatever the wisdom in that decision is, give that pup and the one you have the attention and training so they can have the best start possible, and you will have the best chance possible at succeeding with it in the show ring.

Now you are saving for the down payment on a house in a year, BUT do you know what the expense is for three dogs? Especially show expenses on top of regular care? And dobermans eat more than a beagle, so a good high quality kibble for three dogs, probable supplements, medical upkeep, not to mention any health problems that seem to pop up when you least expect it. I have three large dogs I know the cost. And I work so much that I would have loved to have Lex titled in OB by now, but my schedule doesn't permit it. Heartworm preventative alone keeps me from buying a new car ;)

I don't know what the two of you do for a living, but I remember being your age, in our first apartment, and yikes, there is no way I could pay for all that. I hope your young fiancée has a pretty lucrative job lined up out of high school, then if he does, where does he get the time for training and possible showing of a young dog?

You'll of course want to make sure that your new house has a fenced in yard with three dogs, esp the beagle being how beagles can be, mine is just a little fenced area filled with pea gravel so there is no mud, my cost on that was about $850 - $950 not to mention the labor we supplied. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to find a house with the yard already fenced, doubt it though, as you can't walk away from a good house within a good price range in a good neighborhood b/c it doesn't have a fence.

Don't take offense to this, I, with other's I'm sure, just want to you really think this through before committing and spending more money than you have already put out, and giving your future dogs the best life and chances possible.

I adopted my second dog (a year old), when the first one was 3, I brought in the third dog was the second one was 5. And my third dog is now two. And it is still a challenge to have all three. And I'm only formally training one of them! Let your two mature. Get your titles on them, then see where you want to go from there.

I don't know anything about that breeder you mentioned, but I don't know anything about a lot of them. But if in fact it is a high caliber reputable breeder, chances are you aren't going to qualify for a dog anyway given your situation. I'm surprised the breeder you picked now is giving you a pup, but when you spoke of the breeding rights, I guess it all clicked for me.
 

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Could not have said it better Lexus !!!!
 

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I should add that I have to wonder why you don't seem really, really excited to bring home Jazz. You have talked more about getting other pups then the one you will be getting on April 10. I just don't get it.
 

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very good point okie - if i was getting a puppy in 2 weeks all i would be thinking abou tis THAT dog - not what OTHER dogs i could be getting in a year from now! hell, ive been waiting for a puppy for 4 years now, and im STILL not definitely getting one (though i have found a wonderful breeder, plus tw more that i kinda like!).


Jenn, do you know how much it actually COSTS to show a dog? or even fully train one? i have spent THOUSANDS on classes for my ONE dog, and i have spent over a thousand bucks just getting ONE title on him (and he got that title in THREE straight trials). do you know how much entry fees are, travel/gas, how much you spend at the show, etc?

i have no idea why you are so intent on talking about what breeder your (or your hubby - if you live together, it will belong to BOTH of you and you will share in the care) - next dog will be coming from. you have one coming in 2 weeks - enjoy her and let her grow up and get trained, etc - before you even consider getting another one.

i will say this - no *RESPONSIBLE* breeder will give you a puppy in a year. if one of them does offer to give you one, IMHO, they are not a responsible breeder. i would not place a doberman puppy in a household with 2 other dogs that are still so young (a beagle that is barely over 2, and a doberman that is just about 1).
 

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Okie-dobie said:
I should add that I have to wonder why you don't seem really, really excited to bring home Jazz. You have talked more about getting other pups then the one you will be getting on April 10. I just don't get it.
The whole scenario just keeps getting more and more strange all the time.
We have someone who hasn't even proven they're a good long term doberman OWNER thinking about "stud prospects"...I'm just getting a very strong vibe this is a mini puppy mill in the making.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That pup is going to bond with your other two dogs, more than you. It's attention will be on them over you. (or your boyfriend, as you say it is for him, which is even less fair to him, being a novice, not that you are experienced, but I'd bet he is even less so). Training will be harder with the more dogs you have in the household, especially young ones. And training is all the time, everyday, not just when you go to class.
I am fully aware that it wil be a challenge. It's not like we will be doing it alone.

Now you are saving for the down payment on a house in a year, BUT do you know what the expense is for three dogs? Especially show expenses on top of regular care? And dobermans eat more than a beagle, so a good high quality kibble for three dogs, probable supplements, medical upkeep, not to mention any health problems that seem to pop up when you least expect it. I have three large dogs I know the cost. And I work so much that I would have loved to have Lex titled in OB by now, but my schedule doesn't permit it. Heartworm preventative alone keeps me from buying a new car
I will be going down to casual work in April. Wich meens I work as much or as little as I want. Depending on the training schedual

I don't know what the two of you do for a living, but I remember being your age, in our first apartment, and yikes, there is no way I could pay for all that. I hope your young fiancée has a pretty lucrative job lined up out of high school, then if he does, where does he get the time for training and possible showing of a young dog?
I am insulted you think we are still in High School. Rght now we live in a 3 bedroom townhouse and are moving to rent a house in May. Yes he has a well paying job. He is an experiance Granite/Tile/Marble setter. He only works 8am - 3pm. I worked 630am-630pm and still had time to train. He will have the time and the money

You'll of course want to make sure that your new house has a fenced in yard with three dogs, esp the beagle being how beagles can be, mine is just a little fenced area filled with pea gravel so there is no mud, my cost on that was about $850 - $950 not to mention the labor we supplied. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to find a house with the yard already fenced, doubt it though, as you can't walk away from a good house within a good price range in a good neighborhood b/c it doesn't have a fence.
I know. It is going to be 6foot high solid wood with locked gates. It's bugeted for.

Don't take offense to this, I, with other's I'm sure, just want to you really think this through before committing and spending more money than you have already put out, and giving your future dogs the best life and chances possible.
I do see you points. But I am not even going to put a disposit down on a pup for a YEAR. It's not like I am getting one now


I don't know anything about that breeder you mentioned, but I don't know anything about a lot of them. But if in fact it is a high caliber reputable breeder, chances are you aren't going to qualify for a dog anyway given your situation. I'm surprised the breeder you picked now is giving you a pup, but when you spoke of the breeding rights, I guess it all clicked for me.
Did you ever think that maybe he trusts me and has seen the work I put in at handling classes on HIS dogs so that I can learn to do it properly?!
 

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Whew!! I have one dobe and two ferrets. I am an attorney and my husband is a Boilermaker. Even with our income, its hard. With frontline and heartguard for all, it is really expensive. Not to mention high quality food. And....then the accidents. Loki cut his foot and I had to rush him to the vet...which cost $300. That is great if you have the funds, but I couldn't imagine what it would be like. Not to mention the time...it seems I never have enough time. And Loki isn't even a show dog.
 

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While I have reached the same conclusion as the other posters that it is unwise to even think about another puppy in a year my reasons are different. While money and time should be a consideration in a decision like this we all have our own priorities and what some people consider a lot of money others do not especially if it is something they have a passion for . My concern is what you will be missing out on in your relationship with Jazz. A doberman lives for its masters love, I really do not like the word master but for lack of a better term, and that relationship can only be hurt by spreading yourself to thin. I have not had a lot of the problems with GKar that a lot of owners have with their dogs and imo it is because I raised him alone with no distractions. He hardly ever left my side for his first two years so I got to know all of his manerisims and signals and he learned what was expected of him. More importantly he did not develope bad habits and he looks to me for interaction not another dog. Do what you want to do, no one can stop you but you and Jazz will be the losers here.
 

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dont forget, molari- she also has another young dog right now !
 

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doberkim said:
dont forget, molari- she also has another young dog right now !
I know but there is not anything that can be done about that now. From what I remember the other dog is a beagle who has a completely different set of needs and requirements than a doberman. If you mean that there are already distractions in the raising of Jazz then I agree but if you poiinted that out to show that it will cost more to care for two or three animals then I have to say that money is always the last consideration for me. I even bought my house, 1/2 acre fenced in the city limits of Dallas so GKar could have room to play. Some people have fancy cars and 5000 sqft houses but would not consider putting money in a pet who was sick even thou they have lots of it. Other people who have nothing are willing to put their last dime into their animals if it will give them a few more months. Priorities.
 

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Molari said:
I know but there is not anything that can be done about that now. From what I remember the other dog is a beagle who has a completely different set of needs and requirements than a doberman. If you mean that there are already distractions in the raising of Jazz then I agree but if you poiinted that out to show that it will cost more to care for two or three animals then I have to say that money is always the last consideration for me. I even bought my house, 1/2 acre fenced in the city limits of Dallas so GKar could have room to play. Some people have fancy cars and 5000 sqft houses but would not consider putting money in a pet who was sick even thou they have lots of it. Other people who have nothing are willing to put their last dime into their animals if it will give them a few more months. Priorities.

i dont think that money SHOULD be a last concern when it comes to getting new pets - you need to be able to ensure that you can afford them, and provide for their care. emergencies, feeding, supplies - dogs are not cheap. and then adding to what she plans to do with her dogs, that will cost even more.

yes, its priorities. and responsible people will ensure that they can afford a new animal before they get one. i dont think your financial status should be a last concern when you get new animals - it should be one of the first, because if you cant afford the pet, then you shouldnt get it - no matter how much love you could offer it, IMHO.
 

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JennSLK said:
I am fully aware that it Will be a challenge. It's not like we will be doing it alone.
Won't be doing it alone? Will someone be living with you to help you? Training is everyday in and out of the house, not just at classes once or twice a week.



JennSLK said:
I will be going down to casual work in April. Which means I work as much or as little as I want. Depending on the training schedule.
I go back to saying I hope that your fiancée makes a lot of money then. For financing three dogs for OB classes, traveling, showing expenses, house, bills, medical for you all and the three dogs, regular care and food, etc.....



JennSLK said:
I am insulted you think we are still in High School. Rght now we live in a 3 bedroom townhouse and are moving to rent a house in May. Yes he has a well paying job. He is an experiance Granite/Tile/Marble setter. He only works 8am - 3pm. I worked 630am-630pm and still had time to train. He will have the time and the money.
Apologies then, you have been graduated for two years. My bad. That's great that your fiancée has a good secure job. My husband is a kitchen and bath designer and store manager, he often has to work with floor setters with remodels or designing new houses, hotels, and commercial buildings. He's been a designer and salesman for over 15 years, and in all honesty, he is very good at what he does, but if I quit my job or even went to part time, HA, there is no way that he could pay all the bills, insurances, car payments, house payments, ALL pet expenses (food, medical, fun stuff that we just HAVE to have :), heartworm, flea, supplements, OB classes etc...), retirement funds, taxes, medical for us, oh yeah and groceries, household expenses, really I can keep going, granted we do have two children and their expenses as well. Not to mention putting into savings. I would definetly see some luxuries going out the window. Like traveling and showing. What happens if your fiancée should get injured on the job? What if he is out of work for 8 months? Or a year with an injury? I've seen it happen.



JennSLK said:
I do see you points. But I am not even going to put a disposit down on a pup for a YEAR. It's not like I am getting one now.
I know you say it will be a year. But your first dobe won't even be close to being mature or fully trained by then.




JennSLK said:
Did you ever think that maybe he trusts me and has seen the work I put in at handling classes on HIS dogs so that I can learn to do it properly?!
I think it is fantastic that you found a mentor. But IMO, I stand by what I said with the breeding rights. So you get to take all the risks with your dobes health and do the work for money in his pocket. Hey each to their own. That was the deal my dad had with the commercial breeder my girl came from (not of my knowledge of course). And I see how well the breeders pocketbook have benefited from it, at the expense of his bitch's health.

But how are you going to get another reputable breeder to approve you in your situation? With two young dogs, one still that will be very immature? Do you think you will work a bargain with them too?


Jenn, I applaud the work you are putting into your beagle. You have a pup on the way, no point in arguing the wisdom in that, it's done. I admire the goals and dreams you have, hey I have them too. But give yourself the opportunity to accomplish them, don't shoot yourself in the foot, financially and time wise, not to mention taking valuable time away from the dobe on the way. This really isn't to pick on you, however it may sound. It is all concern. Do what you may with it.
 

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doberkim said:
i dont think that money SHOULD be a last concern when it comes to getting new pets - you need to be able to ensure that you can afford them, and provide for their care. emergencies, feeding, supplies - dogs are not cheap. and then adding to what she plans to do with her dogs, that will cost even more.

yes, its priorities. and responsible people will ensure that they can afford a new animal before they get one. i dont think your financial status should be a last concern when you get new animals - it should be one of the first, because if you cant afford the pet, then you shouldnt get it - no matter how much love you could offer it, IMHO.
I said "money was the last consideration for me" and did not mean to imply that everyone should be that way if that is the way you took it. As far as being able to afford a pet goes, I think most people on this board including myself spend alot more on our animals than we really need to. We are all seeing this thru our personal perspectives. This couple could win at Westminster in the future for all I know. They know their own finances and if they have the passion to get into showing with all of its ups and downs then I will give advise, congratulations or condolenses(sp) as required but I still believe they would be better served if they waited a few years to start so that Jazz gets her time.
 

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doberkim said:
i dont think that money SHOULD be a last concern when it comes to getting new pets - you need to be able to ensure that you can afford them, and provide for their care. emergencies, feeding, supplies - dogs are not cheap. and then adding to what she plans to do with her dogs, that will cost even more.

yes, its priorities. and responsible people will ensure that they can afford a new animal before they get one. i dont think your financial status should be a last concern when you get new animals - it should be one of the first, because if you cant afford the pet, then you shouldnt get it - no matter how much love you could offer it, IMHO.
From my understanding, I don't believe that Malori is saying that money isn't a priority and concern when animals are involved, I believe what he means is that money isn't a deciding factor in certain situations to some people, in the sense that they will go all out for their dogs regardless of the money, and that their decisions are based on the dog's needs and welfare, regardless of what they have to work through and shell out to accomplish such, and not the $ figure that makes their decisions if their dog should need something that is a priority, health, medical, yadayada. Like most of us :) You know most of us has run into the occasional person that is willing to more or less "throw" their dog away and get another rather then cure an issue at hand, or do what is in the better welfare of the animal.

But that he agrees totally that a person needs to first make sure they can tackle the financial responsibility of ownership with out a doubt before making these decisions to add more dogs. You can't live on love right :) Which I do believe is a concern in this case.

I can see how it is written and could be construed as such, but I don't believe that was his intent.
 

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I agree with the comment about the financial side of things. I work part time and am studying for a masters degree. My husband is a police dog handler. We have 2 dogs and 3 kids under 4 and it is hard but we cope. We were going to get a dobe in about 12 months time when the baby was nearly 1, but we found ourselves getting little Wez. Things are fitting into place but bringing up 2 young dogs is hard.
As far as training goes, I work as a dog trainer and like other members have said it is an ongoing thing. A few of my clients think that they can do one 30 min session a week and their dog is going to obey their every command. I have been training Wez for 2 weeks now and he will sit, lie down and stay to a point. It is very hard to give two dogs the attention that they need, I'm lucky because my lab is great with the kids so he gets alot of attention from them as well as us.
Vikki
 
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