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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a 5 month old male, i found a female that is 2 and a half and she'll be in heat in approx. 4 months so then my bronson will be 9 months. i asked my vet and she said to wait about a year give or take what do you guys think.
 

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Leave the breeding to the professionals, breeders who know what they are doing. Breeding to improve the dobermans conformation, health, and temperment.
The DPCA website has lot's of interesting info. that might help sort things out for you.
 

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i have a 5 month old male, i found a female that is 2 and a half and she'll be in heat in approx. 4 months so then my bronson will be 9 months. i asked my vet and she said to wait about a year give or take what do you guys think.
Breeding is not a beginner activity. To do it right, you need to spend years learning about your breed AND proving the the quality of your dogs. I have no idea what the pedigree of your boy is or what his quality might be, but I'm willing to bet that he is not a dog that should be bred. Even a really top quality breeder would not normally sell a breed quality dog to a beginner without co-owning it and having a contract. Any other dog sold by them would be sold on a limited registration with a spay/neuter contract.

You should enjoy Bronson and learn with him. Get involved in activities with him - there are so many out there......... Obedience/Rally/Agility/Schutzhund/Flyball.......... Go to dog shows and get to know the Doberman people in your area, maybe even join a club.

By starting out breeding what you have while knowing little to nothing about the breed itself, you will put yourself in the position of being considered a BYBer. If you ever wish to be considered respectable in the breed........... then this is NOT the place to start.

After 14 years in the breed, I am just now planning my first litter.

Another poster suggested taking some time to read the articles on the DPCA website about becoming a breeder - that was an excellent suggestion and here is a link to them.

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/article_menu.htm
 

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Please do as Okie said, there is so much more to breeding than just throwing two dogs together, if it going to be done the RIGHT way. To start with there are so many health testing "things" to be done first if your even considering breeding two dogs. Then lots more things after that, I'm not even going to start rattling off all of that because there is not enough space so to speak, again leave it to the pros.
 

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The world does not need any more dobes in rescue.. which is *exactly* what will happen to some of the pups that you sell to unsuspecting/inexperienced people who either discover flaws in temperment and/or health issues and/or become overwhelmed with the energy/intellegence of the breed and give up..

I never understood the phrase Backyard Breeder (BYB) until I got my Dobe from rescue (she was the result of one of these BYBs).. Although I love her to pieces, she does not have the proper Doberman temperment (she is insecure and fearful)..

And now, as the direct result of some dummy BYB'r (who no doubt was in it for $$$) my family has spent *tons* of extra money, time and unneccessary stress in order to try and manage these issues.


PLEASE love your beautiful dobe but I beg you, leave the breeding to experienced fanciers who know how to better the breed.
 

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i have a 5 month old male, i found a female that is 2 and a half and she'll be in heat in approx. 4 months so then my bronson will be 9 months. i asked my vet and she said to wait about a year give or take what do you guys think.
Bronson54,

Please go back and re-read all of the posts between yours and this one.

The very first question is not whether your puppy can breed a bitch at 9 months (and physically that answer would be a qualified maybe) but WHY you should even be thinking about breeding him to any bitch at any age.

I don't know who you got Bronson from nor what the breeding lines are but I've had Dobermans for nearly 50 years. Only my very first dog (a Best in Show dog in both the States and Canada with very impeccable breeding lines: Delegate via Ahrtal and Elblac) was used extensively at stud. And even at that he was used in a pretty limited fashion. Right now I've got a couple of dogs who are champions (AKC) and have multiple working titles and are ROM dogs with pretty impeccable breeding. The 9 year old has never been bred and I neutered the 4 year old shortly after he finished at 2-1/2. Both of these dogs had champion brothers who were better dogs (speaking strictly of conformation) and had been bred and were producing excellant puppies. There was no particularly valid reason to breed them--the lines were out there and available through the brothers. The third dog is just starting his show career--whether he is ever bred remains to be seen but it would be in a very limited fashion if at all.

I think far fewer dogs and bitches should be bred--not more and I think the good breeders of the world think about what they are breeding and why and have in mind the improvement of the breed.

AND I would NEVER be wanting to think about breeding any dog or bitch until they were at least old enough to have rock bottom minimum health testing done--you can't even do anything except a preliminary OFA on hips and elbows until they are 2 years. If you've been reading these forums at all you should also know that in addition to the OFA testing the breeding dogs should (and personally I test everyone for everything even though I don't breed them--information for informations sake--always valuable) also have a vWD gene test done, thyroid checked by 2 years, CERF (eyes), the first of an echo and holter done by 2 years and a blood screen for kidney and liver health.

About breeding very young males by the way. Some males can and will breed and sire viable litters at 9 months--in the larger breeds this is unusual. Some young males will breed but not produce litters because they still aren't producing viable sperm. And some males will not breed a bitch until they are much older--18 months to 2 years.

So my question is still WHY? Why do you even want to think about breeding your male at this young age? Why do you even want to think about breeding him at all?
 

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I wish vets would educate people as for WHO should be the only ones breeding any dog. But of course they wouldnt want to discourage those people that are just bring them business. *sigh*
Like everyone said above Breeding SHOULD be left to the people that can afford the time, money, and effort to put serious thought into the parents and get all the recommended health testing. Most obviously you don't just breed ANY dog.
You probably know there are SOooo many great dogs that dont have homes in shelters. But its not only shelters...there are breed rescues...which are full of pure breed dogs. Dogs that end up in the shelter and rescues ARE wonderful dogs and alot of those dogs are produced by people like you...that just don't understand that breeding should be taken seriously and left to the reputable breeders. Unfortunately dogs in shelters and rescues weren't lucky enough to have educated owners that know if your going to get a dog from a breeder to make sure its a REPUTABLE breeder.

When you look at the big picture. Perfect example is this situation right now...
You have this 5 month old puppy...
Is this your 1st dobe?
Who are his parents?
What titles do they have?
What titles does YOUR pup have?
Temperment testing?
Health testing?
Do you have experience showing a dog conformation?
or doing some obedience competition even?
What about this female you know?...you just came across her?
what is her background?
Most importantly WHERE IS YOUR BREEDER IN THIS???? A reputable breeder would want to know about a situation like this involving one of their dogs.
My point is...If a dog gets put into a home that is in a situation like this...Im sure where you got your dobe was NOT a reputable breeder....and this is just a bad cycle that keeps going and going when dogs dont get placed into Quality homes.

Like someone said Breeding isnt just something you do. There is a BIG difference in the dogs that SHOULD be bred and the dogs that the owners just WANT to breed.
Dogs have BREED STANDARDS. and the only dogs that should be bred are the dogs that meet that standard. The whole point of a "Breed of dog" is to work to achieve that standard for many many years to come. so that with some slight IMPROVMENTS on temperment and health they are the dogs today as they were years and years ago.
Which is why Conformation is so important. It is a way to compete and prove who is the best of the best and deserves to be bred. It is a way to ensure that if any puppies are going to be brought into the world that they best fit the standard and are healthy with sound temperments.

Because we all know that we love a pure bred dog...and that breeding will never end...There are ways we can try to limit the number of dogs that end up in shelters or have puppies that shouldnt which is to either 1. get a pup from a REPUTABLE breeder or 2. Rescue or adopt...and 3. spay or neuter always unless pursuing a SHOW career and working closely with the reputable breeder.

I really hope you change your mind about this whole thing. and now try to educate the person that has the female to spay their female. Maybe convince each other to make appointments for spay/neuter.

We all know you probably think your pup is the greatest thing in the world and you love him so much but the best thing you can do for him and the future of his breed is to support the people that are dedicated to bringing only the best for the Doberman Pinscher and want to ensure our breed is healthy and can continue to be the dogs that they are and the reason we all love them.

Please take everyones advice and I hope you make the right choice so we can enjoy you as a respectable member and be able to watch your pup grow :) This forum isn't like any others and I hope you take that as a good thing :) We aren't only dog people...or doberman people...but we TRULY want what is best for our dogs and educate people to not only love their dogs but to respect them and to be active in what makes your dobe happiest...(training...sports...walks...socializing...) then come on here...share stories and pictures lol.
 

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If you are looking for a straight answer the male should be atleast 18 months and the female 2 years. But heck, most reputable breeders will wait till even later to finish the dogs, get some interest in their dog or bitch, and do the propper health testing once they are of age. The last thing anyone who truly loves the breed would want to do is breed in confirmational and health defects. They would want to see the same breed be enjoyed by later gererations.

If you want some advice, it might be best just to pick up the phone and make an appointment with your vet to have your girl spayed around 5-6mos. Some wait till after the first heat cycle, but it really doesn't make that big of a difference in the longevity or health of the animal.

edit: just saw that the girl is past the early spaying age. To help prevent future health risks it might be best to just go ahead and spay her as soon as you get her (if you end up doing so).
 

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As I've stated above I'm not a breeder. But I've had 4 Dobe boys since 1973. The first two were neutered at about one year of age. The third boy Baron was in the breed ring for a while and neutered at about 18 or 19 months. My current boy Rex is in the breed ring now and a little over two years of age. Neutering does nothing to the drive or working abilities, in my opinion makes them far better working dogs. When they are neutered and you run across a hot female at a Obedience match no problem. Unlike many of the intact boys who act like they fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down! The intact girls have the moments as well. Neuter and spay and have fun with your dogs. Dobermans are great in Obedience, Rally, Agility and a variety of other working events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If you are looking for a straight answer the male should be atleast 18 months and the female 2 years. But heck, most reputable breeders will wait till even later to finish the dogs, get some interest in their dog or bitch, and do the propper health testing once they are of age. The last thing anyone who truly loves the breed would want to do is breed in confirmational and health defects. They would want to see the same breed be enjoyed by later gererations.

If you want some advice, it might be best just to pick up the phone and make an appointment with your vet to have your girl spayed around 5-6mos. Some wait till after the first heat cycle, but it really doesn't make that big of a difference in the longevity or health of the animal.

edit: just saw that the girl is past the early spaying age. To help prevent future health risks it might be best to just go ahead and spay her as soon as you get her (if you end up doing so).

thanks for your reply, i told you i was thirsty and you gave me a drink. everyone else gave me a sandwich
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
everyone has to be realistic. so they talk about buying from a reputable breeder cuz of temperment (every dog has his or her own personality) health reason so on, ect. so these reputable breeders are probably not going to be local so picking one with a certain personality is out, buying one at the your right timing is out, due to the fact that they have a litter once every 5 years, if you don't have a yard, or a cat, or parrots, ect. that excludes you. i'm not a betting man but i would say majority of the people on this forum bought thier dobes from a so called BYB. everyone wants to give their expertise opinion and that's just what it is. not right not wrong just an opinion. i bet be all you people jumping on the negative bandwagon wouldn't know the difference between a dobe from a reputable breeder and a BYB if you line them up side by side. that's just my two sense
 

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how does that make someone irresponsible, not buying from a reputable breeder. i provide adequate shelter, food, health care for my bronson, i am his provider, i am his everything, vis versa. if that's what your definition of a irresponsible non edjucated pet owner, i got news for ya.... and if everyone on this forum wants to say they bought from a reputable breeder thier liars...... but what do i know, i'm just a irresponsible, unedjucated pet owner that has no respect for the breed (any breed if you will) with no experience.
 

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Bronson, you shouldn't take offense to what the others are saying. You are getting honest opinions. This breed is riddled with health problems. Good breeders try to do their best to produce offsprings that have a lesser chance of these health problems from occurring. How would you feel if you got a puppy and at 4 years old, some serious health problems start showing up. These guys can worm their way into your heart very easily and losing them at that age is very tragic.

Everyone here wants to better the breed, not just populate the breed. It is so much more than putting two dogs together. I would have to say that most people probably do not make the best choice on their first doberman. But most learn and if they stick with the breed, look for the best they can the next time. I drove 3 hours one way just to get my latest addition. I would have drove more if I had too. Not every reputable breeder is perfect, but they do lesser the chance of something going wrong in the years to come.

Plus not everyone that wants a doberman should own a doberman. These guys are not like labs or golden. They do not fit into everyones lifestyle. Your lifestyle has to match their lifestyle. Just look at any doberman rescue site. So many are turned in that the owners were not willing to make it work. When in add in tempermanet issues that were caused by breeding the wrong dog, this makes it work. Those dogs do not live productive lives.

There is so much more things to consider that byb'ers will overlook. And most of these problems will not occur right away. It takes years for the bad stuff to emerge. We just want this breed to have the best chance as possible. Alot of this can be taken care of by proper breeding, is what most folks are saying.
 

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""i'm just a irresponsible, unedjucated pet owner that has no respect for the breed ""

You are only this if you choose to be. Study the breed. Listen to people who are trying to help. Your male first needs to be old enough for all health testing before you breed him. Yes, he is capable of getting the job done but first you should find out everything about his background, how long they all lived, what they died of. Check the health testing of his parents and grandparents. People here just want you to do things right in the beginning. Same goes for any female you want to breed. Their pedigree's must be right for each other. They should not have the same faults, they should be as close to the Doberman standard as possible.
All in all, your male will make a much better pet if he is neutered. The younger you breed him, the faster all those bad habits will begin.
Be more open minded. No one is judging you, they are trying to inform you in the best way they know how.
 

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i bet be all you people jumping on the negative bandwagon wouldn't know the difference between a dobe from a reputable breeder and a BYB if you line them up side by side. that's just my two sense
You would lose that bet and your two cents. I can spot poorly bred dobes a mile away and see plently of examples at the dog park. I think its you who cannot tell the difference and figure its OK to breed anything.

Question for you - What is your motivation to breed?
 

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In addition to what the others have said, no it is NOT difficult in the LEAST to get a nice dog from a responsible, respected and established breeder. They are all over the country, there are usually several to choose from in any one area, and even if there isn't, the world is a very small place now-a-days. And no, it's not difficult to spot a good breeder vs a backyard breeder if you listen to what people are telling you. And it's also not difficult to spot a backyard bred dog vs a quality bred dog, even if it's a pet quality one. Believe me, it's not you against the universe, this is just people that have a lot of experience in the breed trying to educate. Some people are just going to breed anyway, even though they really know they aren't doing the right thing, and they are going to resent those that are doing the right thing for disagreeing with them.
 

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how does that make someone irresponsible, not buying from a reputable breeder. i provide adequate shelter, food, health care for my bronson, i am his provider, i am his everything, vis versa. if that's what your definition of a irresponsible non edjucated pet owner, i got news for ya.... and if everyone on this forum wants to say they bought from a reputable breeder thier liars...... but what do i know, i'm just a irresponsible, unedjucated pet owner that has no respect for the breed (any breed if you will) with no experience.
Those who posted were not critisizing your CARE they were talking about you wanting to BREED your dog. Big difference...and hey, YOU ASKED!!

As far as being an "unedjucated pet owner that has no respect for the breed" I guess that remains to be seen...however breeding a dog with questionable background, without doing proper health testing will get you well on your way.

Elaine Hopper
Starlaine Dobermans
 
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