How old is too old? crop

1452 Views 17 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Lexus, Oct 25, 2006

Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · Oct 24, 2006

Hello All,
This is my first post here. I'm sorry if this question has been answered many times before. ;-)

Today I cancelled the appointment to have my 14 week old puppy's ears cropped. The breeder who we bought Kate from does not crop her dogs, nor her puppys. We brought our pup home over two weeks ago but the soonest we could get the appointment for the procedure was tomorrow. (over 60 miles away, no vets in our town will crop).
My question..would the odds be very good that at 14 weeks her ears would stand? My biggest fear was one ear up and one ear flop or we go through the expense and then neither stand. We decided at her age, Kate is too old. What are your opinions? Her ears are as flat as can be and this led to our decision.
Kate is our second Doberman, our first passed away due to Wobbler syndrome three years ago. Kira was cropped at nine weeks and we had no problems at all.

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Okie-dobie

· #2 · Oct 24, 2006

I don't think there is any problem in cropping at that age and them standing if that's what you want. I am no expert and other's who have had dobes a long time will tell you best. IMO, there is nothing wrong with beautiful floppy ears!! Your breeder should have had them done. Did you just get her?

Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 25, 2006

We've had her for just a little over two weeks. I'm okay with floppy ears since we are not going to show her but my hubby thinks they just look better with up-standing ears. We are probably going to have Kate spayed but she has excellent European and American Bloodlines so *if* we decide to breed her we are going to have the pups cropped before they go to their new homes, which is (and you are correct) the way it should be.

MaryAndDobes

· #4 · Oct 25, 2006

IMO, she is past the optimal age for cropping which is 8-10 weeks. Her ear leather is thicker now, her ears are longer now - the surgery is harder on her now than it would have been at the proper age.

I'm sorry but I have to comment -- if you aren't interested in showing, why would you even be thinking about breeding? What kind of quality stud dog do you think you'd have access to with an untitled bitch?

Dobesanddragons

· #5 · Oct 25, 2006 (Edited)

MaryAndDobes said:
I'm sorry but I have to comment -- if you aren't interested in showing, why would you even be thinking about breeding? What kind of quality stud dog do you think you'd have access to with an untitled bitch?

Don't be sorry, those were my thoughts exactly! Why even think about breeding if you don't care about breeding and showing to the standard? Just curious?

If you have only had one Doberman before, and your first had wobblers, if you planned to breed you would need a reputable Doberman show/breeder mentor (not one that cuts corners on ears and doesn't give out limited reg. on pets and doesn't show) so you could do full health testing, show your dog and evaluate her quality, and make sure you know what you are breeding in regards to temperament, health, and conformation in the lines of the dogs for many generations. Most Dobermans do not need to be bred, esp. Dobermans without any titles at all, full health testing, and some form of temperament testing. Just because a dog has papers or is registered, that is not an indication of quality automatically by a long shot.

You will find MANY backyard breeders say their dogs are from "Champion" or "excellent" bloodlines, but this doesn't mean much and most likely they don't even know what they are talking about. You need to know pedigrees and understand that the parents and grandparents need to be titled and health tested.

Proper conformation is NOT just about looking good, form leads to function. A dog with bad hips cannot walk right or jump or go on long hikes, etc.
A dog with proper conformation is healthier. Backyard breeding Dobermans for pets is not okay and continues to hurt the breed.

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Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 25, 2006

I said "if". Just because a 'bitch' does not have a 'title' is does not mean all I would be able to find is an inferior dog to breed her with. Not everyone shows good quality dogs and not all good guality dogs are shown. Its still not a crime where I come from to breed a pet if I so chose. My AKC's puppy's parents were not show dogs but their parents were. It was the choice of the owners of the sire and dam not to show and it did'nt mean the parents would not do well in the ring, nor does it mean all that will be produced from my bitch would be un-show worthy pets since I am sure, in your humble opinion, her parents are junkdogs because they didn't have titles. Sorry, I don't have that hang-up that Only Good Dog is a Titled Dog and the only dogs 'worthy' of breeding and of being.
There you go. You said your piece and now I said mine. I did not join this forum to get into an dog breeding flame-war.

Lexus

· #7 · Oct 25, 2006 (Edited)

Doberdoxy said:
I did not join this forum to get into an dog breeding flame-war.

I must interject at this point, everyone has a right to their own opinion, and the people of this forum have nothing but the very best interests in mind for this breed. And breeding an untitled untested bitch is not really in the best interests of the breed. No, not everyone has showing and titling in mind with their dogs, however doesn't everyone deserve the healthiest most correct dog they can get? Correct confirmation only helps to ensure that you dog will be more likely to perform their intended purpose, even if that purpose is just a loved family pet.

Everydog I know on this forum is a good dog, and few have titles. I do not show confirmation, but I feel my dog is a Good Dog regardless, no one is knocking how important your pooch is in your eyes. Is my dog breeding quality... no. Would I breed her....no. Many owners cannot see past their own love for their pet to see their flaws and why they are not ideal for breeding.

So maybe cut us a little slack, we only say what we say because we are very passionate with this breed and hate to see more dogs being produced, when there is not even enough of a demand to house all the dobermans produced by indescriminate breeders as it is.

I also recommend maybe getting to know us a little better before slinging mud at some of the members, as such with the comment that anyone here would consider your dog a "junkyard dog" or her parents even, that just isn't the case.

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Lexus

· #8 · Oct 25, 2006 (Edited)

Doberdoxy said:
Hello All,
This is my first post here. I'm sorry if this question has been answered many times before. ;-)

Today I cancelled the appointment to have my 14 week old puppy's ears cropped. The breeder who we bought Kate from does not crop her dogs, nor her puppys. We brought our pup home over two weeks ago but the soonest we could get the appointment for the procedure was tomorrow. (over 60 miles away, no vets in our town will crop).
My question..would the odds be very good that at 14 weeks her ears would stand? My biggest fear was one ear up and one ear flop or we go through the expense and then neither stand. We decided at her age, Kate is too old. What are your opinions? Her ears are as flat as can be and this led to our decision.
Kate is our second Doberman, our first passed away due to Wobbler syndrome three years ago. Kira was cropped at nine weeks and we had no problems at all.

And to answer your original post

Welcome first off, I hope you'll take some time to read around and get to know us

Personally I love soft uncropped ears, and that's how I'd go, but that isn't your question I know! Generally a good reputable breeder will have the ears done before the baby goes home, usually at like 7-9 weeks. 14 weeks is pushing it, but I know some people on here have had their dogs done at that age, and with success at that. I'd recommend, that if you want them done, find an experienced cropper to consult with, ask to see pictures of their work. Tell them your dogs age, so they will hurry you in for a consult also, they can examine your dog's ears and tell you the chances for success. Many vets crop, but honestly few are good at it. I am absolutely no cropping expert, so my advice may just be bunk

Good luck with what ever route you take!

crxman321

· #9 · Oct 25, 2006

Only a Dog that comes from a good Pedigree and that is breeding quality should be bred.the goal is to have a good example of a Doberman as close to the standard as possible. the correct body and temperment is what we need. ofcourse no dog is perfect but you can get a dog thats healthy and that is more Worthy then from a BYB. theres so many bad dobes in the world and its b.c of backyardbreeders its hurting the breed a ton.

Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 25, 2006

okay, only if I am cut a little slack myself. No one here knows who I am or if I know anything about the breed or not. Just because I owned one Doberman before does not mean I am a novice who needs a hand slap for *possibly* being the dreded BYB who is out to destroy the breed and make a buck. I happen to know something about about confirmation, obedience training, genetic defects, line-breeding, and color genetics. If I could show Kate I would, just to see how well she would do. I just don't have the time to travel to dog shows that are all out of the county. We are going to be enrolling in obedience classes when she is old enough.
I certainly realize there is a dog overpopulation and its not just Dobermans in shelters, and of course not all dogs should be bred.
I really have no real plans on breeding Kate, just if I did, I would have her pups cropped-that was the jist of my comment.

Dobesanddragons

· #11 · Oct 25, 2006

Doberdoxy said:
I happen to know something about about confirmation

It is conformation

Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 25, 2006

<q>Many vets crop, but honestly few are good at it. I am absolutely no cropping expert, so my advice may just be bunk Good luck with what ever route you take!</q>

Hi Lexus, we decided to let her go natural.

We're not going to pursue it.

And thanks for the welcome.

Dobesanddragons

· #13 · Oct 25, 2006 (Edited)

Doberdoxy said:
nor does it mean all that will be produced from my bitch would be un-show worthy pets since I am sure, in your humble opinion, her parents are junkdogs because they didn't have titles. Sorry, I don't have that hang-up that Only Good Dog is a Titled Dog and the only dogs 'worthy' of breeding and of being.

No need to get defensive. You are right, we don't know you, you don't know us. We just want to educate people on Dobermans.

Every litter has pet dogs. Even litters from parents that both show, are CH. and fully health tested. Each show dog should be a pet first and foremost anyway, as time actually spent in the ring for most show dogs isn't the bulk of their life. Also just because someone wants just a pet, doesn't mean they have to settle for less - as a member on this forum says.

I have "pets", I love them very much .
I still train, title, and show and do a little health testing, but I don't breed them. I enjoy them for the wonderful animals that they are and love the same no matter what.
I have a very nice altered male Doberman lying on my couch right now, he has his CGC, CD, WAC, RN, and his TDI. Weekly we attend open and agility classes. He is an outstanding companion, has CH. health tested parents on both sides, and he is my heart dog and a wonderful friend, but I do understand not every dog needs to be bred.

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Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 25, 2006

It is conformation

And you are right. I know that. ;-)
I can't get the quote thing to work either.

Lexus

· #15 · Oct 25, 2006 (Edited)

Doberdoxy said:
<q>Many vets crop, but honestly few are good at it. I am absolutely no cropping expert, so my advice may just be bunk Good luck with what ever route you take!</q>

Hi Lexus, we decided to let her go natural. We're not going to pursue it.

And thanks for the welcome.

Cool

I love floopy ears, I hope my next doberkid down the line has floppy ears. You are required of course to post many many pics, it's a rule :jonkel: Be sure to check out our Town Hall section, it has lots of great info and techniques from our members on a variety of topics, be sure to add in your experiences as well!

Lexus

· #16 · Oct 25, 2006

Opps I'm guilty of the typo as well, I've got to get spell check downloaded on this laptop since I'm on it more than the desktop now.....

Doberdoxy

Discussion Starter · #17 · Oct 25, 2006

Lexus said:
Cool I love floopy ears, I hope my next doberkid down the line has floppy ears. You are required of course to post many many pics, it's a rule :jonkel:

hey! I figured out how to quote. :tongue23:

I'll be happy to share pics of my floppy-eared puppy-if she stays still long enough to take her picture again!

Lexus

· #18 · Oct 25, 2006

Okay we'll allow for now that all your pictures may be in motion and blurry!

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