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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i read often in posts that improper use of a prong collar is bad news. i did some searches and could not find any threads on the proper use of a prong collar. could someone tell me? or does it need to be demonstrated? i dont own a prong or plan to rush out and get one, but i have a feeling its in our future. i have made zero progress with loose leash walking on my own. tonight is the 2nd night of formal training for us and i am going to give that due time and also discuss this with the trainer. but in the meantime, can anyone here school me?
 

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Although a prong collar looks like a torture device from midevil times, it is a humane useful tool.

A prong collar should fit snug enough so it does not slide on the neck. You can adjust by adding or removing the prongs. It works by placing even pressure around the dogs neck instead of having pressure in one spot like a choke collar. Place the collar high on the neck like a choke would sit. Dobermans can have problems with their necks so I think it is a wonderful tool to use. In fact, I read a research article that was done on GSD. Upon necropsy, they found a significant amount of dogs trained with the choke had trachea damage compared to the dogs trained with prongs.

I use a prong on Lexie. When people ask me about it, I use the opportunity to educate them about how the prong works. If you dont like the look of a prong collar, you can cover it with a bandana.

Lisa
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for the advice and that link was great. after reading that article i can honestly say that ive never seen a prong collar properly worn on a dog. every one ive ever seen is at the base of the neck.
 

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Have you tried clicker training a loose leash walk? Kikopup has some great videos on how to do it on her Youtube channel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Have you tried clicker training a loose leash walk? Kikopup has some great videos on how to do it on her Youtube channel.
i did try that. also tried the abruptly stopping method and turning around method. the most success ive had was using the cue "easy" and treating. but that morphed into him thinking the trick was to plow ahead and then come back. its like i just cant seem to communicate what im asking of him. i will check out her videos and see whats up. im willing to try clicker again. other than leash walking, ive had nothing but success with clicker training.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
more knowledge brings more questions. i read the leerburg article and learned some things. i watched and listened to the video and now have a question. in the video he says that the prong collar doesnt take energy or drive out of the dog but rather puts energy and drive into the dog. this has me confused. am i understanding this incorrectly or out of context?? if a correction from the prong only amps up the dog then what is the purpose of the collar for someone wanting to curb or correct unwanted behavior? im not trying to be dense or argumentative. i just dont understand.
 

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more knowledge brings more questions. i read the leerburg article and learned some things. i watched and listened to the video and now have a question. in the video he says that the prong collar doesnt take energy or drive out of the dog but rather puts energy and drive into the dog. this has me confused. am i understanding this incorrectly or out of context?? if a correction from the prong only amps up the dog then what is the purpose of the collar for someone wanting to curb or correct unwanted behavior? im not trying to be dense or argumentative. i just dont understand.
From what it sounds like, you really don't need to understand. When they are discussing drive, they are talking about training a high drive working/sport dog. You seem like just a pet owner so don't really worry too much about drives unless you plan on taking your training to the next level. For now just know you "pop" the collar, don't pull. You will learn how hard to pop based on the situation and the type of dog you have (some dogs won't blink with the hardest of corrections, others will wimper away from the softest). Start with an easy pop, to just get his attention (like a tap on the head of a little kid not paying attention, hey, hey!! ) or a BIG pop for chasing a rabbit into the ROAD!!!
 

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Never ever Pop a prong collar let the dog correct it self you only pop with a choke chain never with a prong collar. If the dog takes off to pull you along as its per usual way just stand still the dog will give its self a correction.Or turn to go the other direction oh you were not paying attention to me.One other thing with the prong collar for safety use a nylon choke as a back up collar prong collars have been known to come apart.
 

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The correct position for a prong collar is to sit right behind the ears and up under the jaw line.Prong collars are meant to be put on and taken off before and after daily training sessions. Unlike a choke collar that is often left on the dog all the time
 

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You really should not leave a choke chain on a dog if it is unsupervised. I do agree with using a back up for the prong collar as it is known to come apart under a hard correction. The whole point of training a dog with a prong collar is to correct with the prong collar. Of course it is ok to "pop" the prong collar. It's how you correct them.
 

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You really should not leave a choke chain on a dog if it is unsupervised. I do agree with using a back up for the prong collar as it is known to come apart under a hard correction. The whole point of training a dog with a prong collar is to correct with the prong collar. Of course it is ok to "pop" the prong collar. It's how you correct them.
While self correcting works on a loose lead walk situation, all other corrections require a "pop". The amount of force is related to the behavior and expectations in that moment. If you are utilizing a prong just to keep from being dragged down the road thats one thing. As a training aid you will use it as a correction requiring a "pop".

Awesome stuff here - podcast
http://leerburg.com/podcasts/theoryofcorrections.mp3

Article
http://leerburg.com/pdf/theoryofcorrections.pdf
 

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I still disagree you should not pop a prong only pop with a choke chain and a prong can just fall off with out a correction that is why you use like a light nylon type choke as a back up collar. If the prong is in the proper position right behind the ears the dog will correct it self if it pulls.
 

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I still disagree you should not pop a prong only pop with a choke chain and a prong can just fall off with out a correction that is why you use like a light nylon type choke as a back up collar. If the prong is in the proper position right behind the ears the dog will correct it self if it pulls.
There are two schools of thought with a prong collar: Some people do as you describe and let the collar do the work. Others use the prong for correction. Neither method is wrong or right, more a matter of what you are trying to accomplish with the collar. As someone else pointed there has been a study done that found the prong caused less damage to the neck when compared to a choke chain.
 

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I use a prong collar(but we are almost finished using it because his walking is so much better!! Yaya!!) and when I took him to vet the receptionist took me into room and began to go on about how the office doesn't like them because they think it's mean. She told me she doesn't think I'm cruel to my dog but they don't like prong collars. I explained that I tried the harness that snugs under arm pit( can't thInk of name) and it didn't bother him or improve walking but the prong has done wonders for us and has been a great tool. I have never used a choker and rather not because I feel like that is even more damage that could be done(from what I've read) she told me they like to use gentle leaders that go around muzzle. I said well I took his collar off for his visit so we don't have to worry about it anymore. This got me mad because everyone always says on here that gentle leads are bad for dobermans because of their necks... Correct me if I misunderstood but just got me mad that you point me in a direction that could cause future problems for my dog. She was not saying this because it was used in correctly on my dog. We have a k9 cop friend that has helped us along the way with training here and there.. Just because DT is great to read but nice with the hands on help :)
 

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I see lots of different opinions here, but I think it depends on the dog too. I would definitely pop the prong for a correction on my dogs. I do not like them up high on the neck though, that is a very sensitive spot on a dog.
The trainers here on campus have little vicious mini pinches up tight right behind the dogs ears. They only use the mini's which are so much more harsh. These labs and goldens will not step out of line with them on, which I suppose is appropriate for someone with a disability, but for a trainer? Well....
For me, my dobes are strong but when we use one, it is a medium always and there for a as needed correction and lower and a little looser on the neck works just fine for me in most situations. Not always, but in day to day life.
 
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I use a prong and leerburgs training methods. The drive focus he is talking about builds because the dog is no longer doing what it wants to do. Example, dog has frisbee, you take frisbee and hold it just out of reach. The result will be the dog wants the frisbee even more now. If channeled correctly, the dog will build drive and focus on you during prong use to pay attention to where you want it. I have the best walking dog in the neighborhood. No pops really needed, once they pull on it once, they become way more alert to what they are doing and what you are doing. Only minor flicks of my finger on the leash is enough to remind her to ease back next to me. If used properly it is remarkable. Just remember it doesnt take much once they understand after that first pull the first time its on them. You do have to think for the dog and yourself now with a prong on. Dont get her in a situation where she/he will pull and "correct" themselves when not needed, like jumping over a ditch, interacting with others or another dog etc. I stop occansionaly and have her sit with it on during walks. When she doesnt mind i give a very gentle flick of the leash and she sits. that was 2 weeks ago, now she needs very little correction if any at all during an entire walk. my pup is 14 weeks. She is only wearing it for walks right now, I try to use the least controlling method as possible.

oh, and before you use it, put it on your wrist and "pop" pull, tug at it with the leash etc. it will give you an idea of what it feels like and what the dog will feel. just remember it goes on the dogs neck, not wrist. :D
 

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I also used mine a little looser and closer to the middle of the neck. It worked just fine in that position. The base of the neck won't do a thing though. It does depend on the dog, and what they need or will/won't respond to.

As with all collars, I never leave them on when my dog is unattended. While you're working with a dog on a prong, you can buy a short clip that runs from the prong to your dog's buckle collar. If the prong pops open, you won't lose your dog.
 
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