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I was reading one of the dog magazines and saw an article for the House of Hoytt. I have been into the site before but decided to take another look.
Maybe I'm missing something here but I just don't see that his dog's are that bad. They have been breeding for 50 years, if the dog's are so inferior why are they still in business? He's a broker, OK, so what? Does that automatically make him bad and his dog's inferior? To the best of my knowledge he doesn't sell to pet shops. He also has a pretty extensive questionaire. Why isn't the internet full of complaints about his dog's? Why isn't there an online petition about him like there is about Kimbertal?
Everyone seems anxious to jump on the bandwagon with their negative opinion about Hoytt's but I think there is only one Hoytt dog on this forum and the only thing I ever heard Jessie say is that she had some dandruff issues and was slightly oversized. You can say the same about the majority of the Doberman's being bred today. A very well known breeder listed many champions. They listed one male who is a BISS champion, he is 29 1/2" tall.
Another one of their champions is a 28" female. Shame on the judges for pointing dog's so far over the standard. If these dog's were used in breeding then shame on the breeder. There is another breeder whose site I was into. They have bred untitled, OFA fair dogs and are asking $2,000 for their pet/companion dog's. The health tests are also pending on one of their females. Pending? What if the results come back less than favorable, then what, she's already bred. Both are DPCA members. Is this responsible breeding, breeding to improve the breed? I don't think so!
It's my understanding that Barry Hoytt doesn't health test but if he's breeding to the same lines without any health issues is testing really necessary.
I don't know Mr. Hoytt, never spoken with him and probably never will. I just think he's getting a bad rap from a lot of people with opinions and no hard facts to back them up.
But, I do think his dog's are a little overpriced.
 

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There are no lines without health problems. If Barrie Hoytt really had a genepool of Dobermans without health problems the world would be beating a path to his door because there is no line in the world that doesn't have DCM, CVI, vWD, HD somewhere in it. And he would be a godsend, people wouldn't have to watch their beloved dogs die of these awful diseases, as a number of people here have. He's a snake oil salesman. He doesn't do health testing, he doesn't have any champions, he has a few dogs with CDs because he sends them out with handlers to get the CDs and then he sells them for more money, calling them Grand Victors or something like that.

He breeds a LOT of puppies every year, 50 to 100, there's no way they can be raised and socialized properly, plus with the overpopulation of the breed already, the rescues overflowing and Dobermans being euthanized in shelters because there aren't homes for them, he is making the problem worse.

He also breeds oversized dogs, which you seem to dislike and he doesn't just get them accidentally, he deliberately breeds for them and charges more money for them as well. And he breeds them in turn. So on all the counts you criticized DPCA breeders for he's guilty as well and more so.

The thing that bothers me the most about him is not that all his dogs are bad quality, they're not. But that he doesn't care about them, he doesn't care where they go or what happens to them.

And for someone who was raised "all his life" with Dobermans as he keeps saying, he knows virtually nothing about training, I know this from personal correspondence with him, and I'd bet he doesn't know any more about the breed or pedigrees than he knows about training. What he does know is sales.
 

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I guess my take on it basically, he isn't as bad as some, but for the cost you can get better, if that's coming out like I mean it too. For the money that is charged or less, you can get a health tested dog from a titled background at breed standard. Make sense? I agree with Mic on the issues of oversized breedings, and breeding so many too.
 

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That's about what Mensa cost me. On her Pedigree, of the 62 Dobermans, all but 11 have CH in front of their name.
 

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Duchess for a pet was 1,200 I dont know all too much about the details about her pedigree...but from what I hear there is many Champs, again Im not too much in the dog world but our breeder breeds for health, conformation, agility, working, temperment, from what I have been told by people that are more familiar with the dobe world. she did everything for the ears...cropped to tapping and posting them for us on a weekly basis and was always there to help us when we talked at training. although were lucky were located right by her. Now that I was assured in another post that she is a great breeder I will probably always go to her for a great dobe. once you find a great breeder It also gives you an idea of what you pay for a real great dobe and how much help you get which you can compare other breeders you see...I dont know if this hoytt breeder you speak of is on top of everything that it takes...but someone mentioned that they breed to often...and yes the oversized that they breed would be a turnoff RIGHT AWAY for me...
I would never consider buying a dobe for that much money especially if they have no titles, or Ch. even with me being so unfamiliar with how the show and breeding world works. lol :)
 

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jim said:
I was reading one of the dog magazines and saw an article for the House of Hoytt. I have been into the site before but decided to take another look.
Maybe I'm missing something here but I just don't see that his dog's are that bad. They have been breeding for 50 years, if the dog's are so inferior why are they still in business? He's a broker, OK, so what? Does that automatically make him bad and his dog's inferior? To the best of my knowledge he doesn't sell to pet shops. He also has a pretty extensive questionaire. Why isn't the internet full of complaints about his dog's? Why isn't there an online petition about him like there is about Kimbertal?
Everyone seems anxious to jump on the bandwagon with their negative opinion about Hoytt's but I think there is only one Hoytt dog on this forum and the only thing I ever heard Jessie say is that she had some dandruff issues and was slightly oversized. You can say the same about the majority of the Doberman's being bred today. A very well known breeder listed many champions. They listed one male who is a BISS champion, he is 29 1/2" tall.
Another one of their champions is a 28" female. Shame on the judges for pointing dog's so far over the standard. If these dog's were used in breeding then shame on the breeder. There is another breeder whose site I was into. They have bred untitled, OFA fair dogs and are asking $2,000 for their pet/companion dog's. The health tests are also pending on one of their females. Pending? What if the results come back less than favorable, then what, she's already bred. Both are DPCA members. Is this responsible breeding, breeding to improve the breed? I don't think so!
It's my understanding that Barry Hoytt doesn't health test but if he's breeding to the same lines without any health issues is testing really necessary.
I don't know Mr. Hoytt, never spoken with him and probably never will. I just think he's getting a bad rap from a lot of people with opinions and no hard facts to back them up.
But, I do think his dog's are a little overpriced.
He's a commercial breeder with a gimmick, and he sells a lot of dogs for very inflated prices. So does Kimbertal up my way. They both will sell to anyone with the cash, and dogs of their breeding end up in rescue on a pretty regular basis. Just because some of the dogs are nice looking does not mean anything......I hope to God that if someone has been breeding that many dogs for that long that some of the dogs would be nice looking.........they sure don't make it in the show ring.

There will always be people out there that feel that the more you pay for something, the better it is - breeders like Hoytt have figured that out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just so we don't beat this topic to death this will be my last post.
Hoytt would not be my breeder of choice. The point I was trying to make is that I don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be. Yes, he breeds oversized, over priced dogs. That's obvious, it's right on his website for everyone to see. He's not trying to hide it. He also has an option for standard sized dogs. Barry Hoytt isn't doing anything differently than other breeders, with the exception of breeding so many litters, that hide behind membership in the DPCA and other groups to give the perception that they are reputable breeders when they are not.
I was talking with a very well known breeder, I'm sure everyone on this site has seen their pedigree. I told him I liked a male closer to 26" than 28" with 27" and around 75# being ideal. He chuckled and said "try to find one". But everyone wants to cruxify Barry Hoytt for breeding over the standard when oversized dogs, from "reputable breeders" , are everywhere.
I don't think Mr. Hoytt will be nominated for the DP Breeders Hall of Fame anytime soon. Again, I don't see the Internet full of complaints, or pending lawsuits, from owner's of his dog's claiming that he mislead them.
I honestly think the thing that bugs people the most about Barry Hoytt is that he makes his living off of selling Dobermans.
 

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If I was mr hoytt i'd be afraid to sleep at night he's a lot of talk nothing more some of his dogs are just down right ugly and the ears hardly ever stand up right but why would he care about that its sad that people think there gettin something great when really there getting something less then average for the amount of money kimbertal is prolly even worse Altobello Dogs get bashed all the time too but atleast some of their dobes look amazing and have been in shows and worked lots of well known reptuable breeders that focus on work have altobello dogs im no expert i just know what i've seen
 

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My last Dobermans was 27" and weighed 80 pounds. The ones before him were both 27 1/4" and weighed 75 pounds. My current one is 27 1/2", weighs 70 pounds but hasn't filled out yet.

The only reason to answer you is so others don't think most of us agree with you. Your point seems to be to bash the DPCA for some reason. The fact is DPCA member breeders are a diverse bunch, there are good ones and bad ones. But Barrie Hoytt is a bad one, even you haven't mentioned anything he 's doing that's good or responsible.
 

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My dobe(male) which i even got from a BYB....is 27" and 80lbs. I really dont think its that hard to find one that close within the standards. I have also been told to check ref. with the list of breeders from the DPCA site, cause even if they are on the list, does not make them a rep. breeder.
 

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jim said:
Just so we don't beat this topic to death this will be my last post.
Hoytt would not be my breeder of choice. The point I was trying to make is that I don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be. Yes, he breeds oversized, over priced dogs. That's obvious, it's right on his website for everyone to see. He's not trying to hide it. He also has an option for standard sized dogs. Barry Hoytt isn't doing anything differently than other breeders, with the exception of breeding so many litters, that hide behind membership in the DPCA and other groups to give the perception that they are reputable breeders when they are not.
I was talking with a very well known breeder, I'm sure everyone on this site has seen their pedigree. I told him I liked a male closer to 26" than 28" with 27" and around 75# being ideal. He chuckled and said "try to find one". But everyone wants to cruxify Barry Hoytt for breeding over the standard when oversized dogs, from "reputable breeders" , are everywhere.
I don't think Mr. Hoytt will be nominated for the DP Breeders Hall of Fame anytime soon. Again, I don't see the Internet full of complaints, or pending lawsuits, from owner's of his dog's claiming that he mislead them.
I honestly think the thing that bugs people the most about Barry Hoytt is that he makes his living off of selling Dobermans.
I think it is very telling that Barry Hoytt is NOT a DPCA member. He is doing a lot of things differently than most of the breeders who are in the DPCA (there will always be a few bad apples). If you don't see the difference between him and most of the reputable breeders out there then I give up.

I see plenty of males in the show ring who fit the standard without being oversized. Being over the standard size is a fault and is judged accordingly.
 

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A few years ago Berrie Hoytt admitted on a public Doberman chat group that he breeds for money, nothing else. On the same board he was asked to post health tests from his dogs, he said he would and never posted any results, in fact he never posted again. He takes no responsibility for any dog he breeds, ask rescues in his area! His guarrantees are a joke as are his screenings for a home.

This isn't a person I would want to support in any shape or form. Really he is nothing more than a flashy, good talking, commercial puppy miller.
 

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Cyrus cost me half that - all but 3 dogs in 5 generations a Ch., including multiple best in show champions, all health testing done. There are breeders who are more interested in good homes than the almighty $$$$$, you just have to look around.



jim said:
There is another breeder whose site I was into. They have bred untitled, OFA fair dogs and are asking $2,000 for their pet/companion dog's. The health tests are also pending on one of their females. Pending? What if the results come back less than favorable, then what, she's already bred. Both are DPCA members. Is this responsible breeding, breeding to improve the breed? I don't think so!
It's my understanding that Barry Hoytt doesn't health test but if he's breeding to the same lines without any health issues is testing really necessary.
I don't know Mr. Hoytt, never spoken with him and probably never will. I just think he's getting a bad rap from a lot of people with opinions and no hard facts to back them up.
But, I do think his dog's are a little overpriced.
 

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Blackdog said:
Cyrus cost me half that - all but 3 dogs in 5 generations a Ch., including multiple best in show champions, all health testing done. There are breeders who are more interested in good homes than the almighty $$$$$, you just have to look around.
I agree, I've never paid anywhere near $2000 for a Doberman and my dogs pedigrees are like blackdogs. I can see paying that for a nice show quality puppy, but once you are known as a good show home (and have proved it) most good breeders will work with you.
 

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thes people that run down barrie hoytt dont know him or just jelous or like to lye.barrie hoytt is a great trainer and so is janie and the other trainers that work ther i owen a hoytt and belive me he cares about everry dog and why they are not cheep you get wat you pay 4 and if you have ever trained a dog you would know it is costley and time comcining and time is money i also have altobello dobie i imported from europ i know barrie personley he fishes here on my lake and i have been to house of hoytt maney times and if people would visit they would go back is your hoytt male or feaml email me [email protected]
 

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i forgot to tell you this the man that invented this sit owens a hoytt gess wat it is not 4 sale does this tell you aney thing ha ha and another hoytt this site is to just indores other breeders if you would like to talk to me call or email me i have some great dogs hoytt and altobello dobies [email protected]

***Edited to remove telephone number***
 

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jim said:
I was talking with a very well known breeder, I'm sure everyone on this site has seen their pedigree. I told him I liked a male closer to 26" than 28" with 27" and around 75# being ideal. He chuckled and said "try to find one". >>

Well, my dog who recently finished is 27" and was 78 pounds in show weight---since he's now playing in agility he's about 75 pounds. They really aren't hard to find. Most of my breeders dogs are very moderate in size. However because there simply is a range in the breed and you'll find the occasional big dog along with the moderate dogs the other male that I have from the same breeder who is also a champion with titles in agility, obedience and rally is 28-1/2". The other two champion's from his litter were a 27" red dog and a 25-1/2" red bitch. There were four other pups in the litter and all three of the bitches were either 25" or 25-1/2". The other black male went east and I don't know how he turned out or how big he got. The whole time that my big dog was being shown it caused his breeder/handler to ask him repeatedly if he was really hers since she claimed he was the biggest thing she'd ever bred.

<< But everyone wants to cruxify Barry Hoytt for breeding over the standard when oversized dogs, from "reputable breeders" , are everywhere.>>

It isn't that I want to crucify anyone. But House of Hoytt has over the years become more and more a puppy mill. In the late 50's Barry's father was breeding "show" dogs. Mostly he was breeding fairly mediocre show prospects but he had an occasional decent dog or bitch and they were competative and finished. That hasn't been true since the late 60's. I don't think because there is an enormous bitch and her half brother an equally enormous dog (who frankly I think lacks all the way around in quality--the bitches worst fault is that she is TOO BIG) are out there being shown and winning means that the breeder is a reputable breeder. I personally don't think he is. He is very new to the breed and personally I don't think he has a clue about the idea of improving the breed. He'll be gone in another five years just like people before him have disappeared into the dust.

Yes, there are oversized dogs--and there are even a few undersized dogs--the "good and reputable" breeders make every attempt to breed what the standard calls for. The fact is that there have been big dogs who never threw their size and who made significant contributions to the breed and there have been small dogs (you understand this is generic--I'm including bitches here) who did not necessarily produce small dogs who have also proven their worth in the breed.

House of Hoytt has produced nothing except mediocrity in years. And if you like I can put you in touch with some people who had Hoytt bred dogs who were entirely unsatisfactory because of health problems, genetic defects and unacceptable temperament.

That's why I'm down on Barry Hoytt and what he produces.

<<I don't think Mr. Hoytt will be nominated for the DP Breeders Hall of Fame anytime soon. Again, I don't see the Internet full of complaints, or pending lawsuits, from owner's of his dog's claiming that he mislead them.
I honestly think the thing that bugs people the most about Barry Hoytt is that he makes his living off of selling Dobermans.
>>

Hall of Infamy more like. And you haven't been looking if you haven't seen the complaints about the Hoytt bred dogs. IF Barry Hoytt health tested each and every one of his breeding dogs, bred only the ones that were able to pass all of the health testing and could finish championships as well as get the occasional obedience title I would still be upset about the pure quantity of dogs that his kennels produce.
 

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Tyson said:
i forgot to tell you this the man that invented this sit owens a hoytt gess wat it is not 4 sale does this tell you aney thing ha ha and another hoytt this site is to just indores other breeders if you would like to talk to me call or email me i have some great dogs hoytt and altobello dobies [email protected]

***Edited to remove telephone number***
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here - but I'm going to try to respond.

As far as I know there is only one active member here who owns a Hoytt Dobe. That dog is not for sale for the same reason my dog is not for sale - the owner (like me) loves her dog! It could have come from the man on the moon and she would still love it. Following your logic - my unwillingness to sell Chihiro must mean that Koza kennels is a quality facility - it is not by any stretch of the imagination.
A person's unwillingness to sell their dog does not in anyway reflect the quality of the breeder (or lack thereof).

This site does not endorse any one particular breeder. The members of this site diligently try to inform others of the steps to be taken in choosing a quality breeder. One of those steps is to ensure the breeder performs even the most basic of health tests - Hoytt does not. Another is to make sure the sire and dam are proven - Hoytt's dogs are not. Yet another quality to look for in a reputable breeder is one who is working to better the breed - since Hoytt does not title his dogs OR health test his dogs, it is impossible for him to even attempt to better the breed.

If you, Tyson, are a fan of Barrie Hoytt - and you obviously are - that is fine. But please do not waste anymore space on the web defending his breeding practices here to those who know better.
 

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TracyJo said:
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here - but I'm going to try to respond.

As far as I know there is only one active member here who owns a Hoytt Dobe. That dog is not for sale for the same reason my dog is not for sale - the owner (like me) loves her dog! It could have come from the man on the moon and she would still love it. Following your logic - my unwillingness to sell Chihiro must mean that Koza kennels is a quality facility - it is not by any stretch of the imagination.
A person's unwillingness to sell their dog does not in anyway reflect the quality of the breeder (or lack thereof).

This site does not endorse any one particular breeder. The members of this site diligently try to inform others of the steps to be taken in choosing a quality breeder. One of those steps is to ensure the breeder performs even the most basic of health tests - Hoytt does not. Another is to make sure the sire and dam are proven - Hoytt's dogs are not. Yet another quality to look for in a reputable breeder is one who is working to better the breed - since Hoytt does not title his dogs OR health test his dogs, it is impossible for him to even attempt to better the breed.

If you, Tyson, are a fan of Barrie Hoytt - and you obviously are - that is fine. But please do not waste anymore space on the web defending his breeding practices here to those who know better.
I dont think anymore needs to be said here. I agree with ya 100% TracyJo. Oh and one more thing(for tyson)....YOU DO NOT ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, WHOEVER TOLD YOU THAT, Tyson....LIED TO YOU! Im sorry but there are many people out selling poorly breed dobes for way more than they should be, just for the money....they see them dollar signs and keep going.Not to mention those who try to skemp, when it comes to breeding,like the one whom you are trying to defend.Some of us atleast know better then to buy into it. And to be honest, cause now im not one to bash....but you come in here and post....but your spelling and grammer whatever is SOOOOO off....i dont really know to take you serious or not. Looks more like a 12yr old came in here just typing whatever. LOL now i know my mess is not perfect however you can at least understand mine.
 

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Tyson said:
i forgot to tell you this the man that invented this sit owens a hoytt gess wat it is not 4 sale does this tell you aney thing ha ha and another hoytt this site is to just indores other breeders if you would like to talk to me call or email me i have some great dogs hoytt and altobello dobies [email protected]

***Edited to remove telephone number***
I typically don't get too involved in these discussions, but seeing how this pertains to me I will this time...

For one thing, although you and I have been through plenty of discussion already.... the man that runs this site, TD, does not have a Hoytt dog, he has a rescued female, so get your facts straight. I have the Hoytt dog and don't run this site, and like TracyJo said, my dog would never be for sale (or available for breeding just as a point of fact although she is spayed) because she is just that - MY DOG. To me a dog or a cat is a family member, and I wouldn't sell my family member. And just to clarify, AGAIN, Lexus was given to me, I didn't seek out a breeder... I didn't know squat about HOH or any other dobe breeder until my research long after the fact.

My other two mutts aren't for sale either, so I guess whoever is responsible for letting them and all their litter mates into the world of already overpopulated dogs, must be great breeders too.

Guess that line of thinking doesn't make too much sense anymore does it?

You and Mr. Hoytt are friends, that's great. Guess that makes him a great breeder then...... okay.... guess that makes the lack of health testing and over abundance of breeding okay then... okay.... Guess what, I've got people that I call friends too, that occasionally do things I don't agree with. That doesn't make everything they do right, since I call them a friend.

I back Tracy 110%, and as my last email to you went something like this.... If you think HOH is a great breeder by breeding the large number of dogs they do, unhealthtested, many oversized and against breed standard, not shown or confirmation proven, then I guess you have made up your mind about what a good breeder is.... so go along your merry way and just enjoy that.
 
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