Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
101 - 120 of 142 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #101 ·
I forgot the pic of His Nibs on The Shining rug downstairs:



So spooky.

I see the Dude abides.....

John L.
Portland OR
And is very careful, man, when there's a beverage here! 😎

He looks so THRILLED to be in costume.

I said this before, but I thought I'd repeat it just to be sure you realize the seriousness of your situation--sleep with one eye open tonight.

We had no trick or treaters. Perhaps our 32 F drizzly, foggy weather had something to do with it though. Halloween is usually the first nasty wintery day here--tonight was no exception. That's why the base of my kids costumes were always a good pair of sweats, and preferably something that required gloves. And I designed the "masks" to cover their ears and all of their heads.
He did not love dressing up. Which is a bit surprising since he does seem to love his coats and the pajamas that he sometimes wears so my wife can make him look stupid he stays warm on, uh, cold nights.



"Cold" nights being as crazy low as 45 degrees, which is obviously a total joke compared to truly cold nights.

I miss old school Halloween. Even when it got cold in New England, the night would be filled with doorbell rings and kids' voices and general fun and laughter, and I haven't seen anything like the old fun in well over a decade. When I was a kid it was all about strategic candy acquisition, mapping out which houses were the best, which had to be hit first before they ran out and which ones gave the garbage payouts like tiny boxes of black licorice, etc. It was like living in a Calvin & Hobbes strip, but I guess that flavor of nostalgia is just a part of getting older.

I just learned there was a Trunk or Treat somewhat close to us, which explains where everyone went.
 

·
Super Moderator
Hairy Dog RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Joined
·
28,116 Posts
I remember those days--there were a couple of households who gave out real homemade popcorn balls and candied apples that we always put on our list, even though that meant a bit of a walk. No one gives out anything homemade any more and kids are told not to eat it if they do.

The things kids these days miss...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Haha, the gourmet treat houses! We always hit those early to make sure that we plundered the good stuff before they ran out. And popcorn balls = Wow. I haven't thought of those in years, at least not in a Halloween sense where they and caramel apples were the true bounty, along with full size candy bars from all the wealthy homes on Easy St.

Whenever I watch E.T, which is admittedly never, I am reminded of the way the streets would teem with kids and parents and awesome costumes, and one always knew they were top dog if they did not see another kid wearing the same getup. In my memory the Star Wars costumes were by far the most popular, and whenever you'd see a kid in a latex mask it was like Damn, dude, you're killing it tonight!



I remember one year I went as a Samurai because I was obsessed with the Shogun TV series, with a kimono and fake swords, etc., and everyone looked at me like I was some sort of heathen for not going as a Star Wars character like everyone else.

Good times, great memories and I am thankful to have them. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
I have some questions about Hope and his itchiness--has the vet given you anything to quiet the itching? One of my Dobes was clearly allergic to something that was around from early spring to when the fall rains started (usually late October or early November) it started when he was around a year and was pretty clearly inhalant or contact and started basically when we started to have a lot of pollen (and that lasts most of the year as the rain diminishes the pollen increases and generic for Benadryl at a very minimal dosage (25mg twice a day--almost all of it is packaged as 25mg tablets or capsules) That was enough to keep him comfortable. During the worse of the pollen season being pretty compulsive about wiping him down -(-including his feet and legs) with a damp towel removed enough to help with the itching. And about weighing him on that scale. It's the same scale we have in the vet clinic where I work (yes, I keep trying to be completely retired but it hasn't worked yet.) I know from long time use of that particular scale that if you sit a big dog in the middle of it facing out (the way the shot of Hope is) it'll give you a slightly inaccurate weight--I've learned to make sure that the Dobes are centered pretty much in the middle--standing so that their long direction is the same as that of the scale.

Are you weighing Hope's food? There is a commonly used % of raw fed weight to the dogs (ideal, I think) weight--since I don't feed raw I'm not sure what that percentage is--but I think there are some raw feeders here who will chip in I hope)--I though it was around 3 pounds for an active adult males.

I was surprised to see how thin he looks in those recent pictures. Also--I'll tell you that most of my adolescent males got fed (this is kibble but it was a big increase) anywhere from one to 3 cups more kibble per meal between about 10 months to 18 months. That was when they had been doing fine and gaining weight appropriately between about 5 months to around 10 or ll months on 2 cups of kibble per meal (4 cups per day).

Don't know of any of this is helpful but just some things I've been through with young intact boys.

dobebug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
We feed our growing kids 2 lbs of raw a day. Dividing it between two meals a day. If I notice too much rib, I will supplement by feeding a bowl of kibble as a third feeding. I never mix raw with kibble.
Usually the reason to supplement was increased exercise that I missed, so when weight is back to normal I eliminate that xtra bowl of kibble.
It is at six months that I start feeding 2x a day. Since weighing on a scale is impractical for me, I judge amount of food by how they look and act.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
We feed our growing kids 2 lbs of raw a day. Dividing it between two meals a day. If I notice too much rib, I will supplement by feeding a bowl of kibble as a third feeding. I never mix raw with kibble.
Usually the reason to supplement was increased exercise that I missed, so when weight is back to normal I eliminate that xtra bowl of kibble.
It is at six months that I start feeding 2x a day. Since weighing on a scale is impractical for me, I judge amount of food by how they look and act.
Thanks Bonnie--I know a couple of other raw feeders who do that--stick an extra meal which is kibble, not raw in for the growing puppies. But I'm always a bit cautious about the kind of recommendations I give when it comes to dogs who ar basically raw fed.

dobebug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #107 ·
I have some questions about Hope and his itchiness--has the vet given you anything to quiet the itching?
When we first brought him to the vet, he gave him a Prednisone shot that had little to no effect on the itching. We then received some antibiotics to help with the raw, open sores that he had developed on his chest from gnawing at himself, with the recommendation to begin changing his diet to see if it helped. Switching to beef from chicken seemed to have an immediate effect on the general scratching, but one thing that my wife noticed was that he did begin scratching again once we added his Priobiotics, also given under vet advice, back to the bowl.

With the Probiotics removed, he is again itch-free. He does scratch an ear or two in the morning, but he no longer relentlessly worries away at himself and finds other things to chew when he's bored!

And about weighing him on that scale. It's the same scale we have in the vet clinic where I work (yes, I keep trying to be completely retired but it hasn't worked yet.) I know from long time use of that particular scale that if you sit a big dog in the middle of it facing out (the way the shot of Hope is) it'll give you a slightly inaccurate weight--I've learned to make sure that the Dobes are centered pretty much in the middle--standing so that their long direction is the same as that of the scale.
Very interesting. Thank you! Every time he's been on the scale the reading has been taken exactly as pictured, so that repositioning will be something I bring up and try the next time he's there. I never considered orientation to be a factor, but realistically I also knew that scale reads lower than my method of weighing myself, then weighing myself plus Hope, to get his weight on the home scale.

Are you weighing Hope's food? There is a commonly used % of raw fed weight to the dogs (ideal, I think) weight--since I don't feed raw I'm not sure what that percentage is--but I think there are some raw feeders here who will chip in I hope)--I though it was around 3 pounds for an active adult males.

I was surprised to see how thin he looks in those recent pictures. Also--I'll tell you that most of my adolescent males got fed (this is kibble but it was a big increase) anywhere from one to 3 cups more kibble per meal between about 10 months to 18 months. That was when they had been doing fine and gaining weight appropriately between about 5 months to around 10 or ll months on 2 cups of kibble per meal (4 cups per day).

Don't know of any of this is helpful but just some things I've been through with young intact boys.
We have been weighing his food since switching him to raw after the puppy food. He was at 2 lbs of food per day, and now he's at 4 lbs. It's overfeeding, but we spoke with the vet and it should work in the short term to get his weight up. He already looks so much better than the what the hell, are we starving this dog? moment of epiphany last week, but I'm still catching a bit of rib and vertebrae at some angles that makes him look skinny. Not lean, not lanky, but skinny, and it seriously bugs me.

I found a pic on my camera from the day my wife and I realized that there was a very real problem with his weight, and I look at it now and feel like a complete life failure:



Today he looked better this morning for the a.m. walk, but with still too much vertebrae and rib. Here's the pic I texted my wife:



Thank you again for your help and perspective!


We feed our growing kids 2 lbs of raw a day. Dividing it between two meals a day. If I notice too much rib, I will supplement by feeding a bowl of kibble as a third feeding. I never mix raw with kibble.
Usually the reason to supplement was increased exercise that I missed, so when weight is back to normal I eliminate that xtra bowl of kibble.
It is at six months that I start feeding 2x a day. Since weighing on a scale is impractical for me, I judge amount of food by how they look and act.
Thank you for the help! It is definitely something that we will consider once we evaluate where we need to be for food. He was at 1 lb of raw in the morning and 1 lb at early evening, but this has been temporarily doubled to (hopefully) quickly bump his weight up.

The exercise thing puzzles me. He's been getting a lot less run time in the yard due to the recent rain, but he does seem to have gotten at least an inch taller, maybe more, in the past 2-3 weeks and I am guessing that the food was no longer enough for him.

I ...don't know. I have my fingers crossed that this is a temporary hiccup, that we aren't dealing with anything else (I have a tendency to assume the worst at times) and that he'll be back to looking healthy very soon.
 

·
Super Moderator
Hairy Dog RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Joined
·
28,116 Posts
I have never fed them, and I have NO IDEA about the nutrition, etc of the things--I'd be interested in knowing what you expert guys think of Satin Balls as a way to up the weight and keep the weight on dogs (for dogs who have no appetite due to illness, I think)

Here's an old post about them:
Satin balls do the trick, the dogs love it and they will put weight on, nice and quick

"Satin Ball" recipe for dogs who won't eat This recipe is for dogs who desperately need calories and need to put on weight, but who have no appetite. It sounds yucky, but when these are done they are really appealing, even to me.
In my experience, this is a kind of "last resort and hope" food that many sick dogs will eat.

Mix all ingredients (like meatballs). I shape them like thick hamburgers rather than balls because they store easier in the freezer and thaw faster. Freeze in serving portion size. Nothing is cooked -- all ingredients are uncooked RAW and "Satin Balls" are served raw.
This recipe for Little Dogs (1/10 of full recipe) would be a good test to see if your dog will eat them before you make the substantial investment in ingredients of the half or full size recipe. See Notes below about the Total cereal, oats, wheat germ and vegetable oil.


Satin Balls for Little Dogs -- or to try out recipe on your dog to see if he will eat it.
1 lb cheap hamburger (for high fat %)
1 and 1/3 cups Total cereal
1 and 1/2 cups uncooked oatmeal
1 raw egg
6 Tablespoons wheat germ
1 package Knox unflavored gelatin
2 Tablespoons vegetable oil
2 Tablespoons unsulphered molasses
Pinch of salt

Satin Balls Half Recipe -- recommended amount to mix up
5 lbs cheap hamburger (for high fat %)
1/2 large box Total cereal (about 6 cups cereal)
1/2 large box uncooked oatmeal (about 7.5 cups oats)
5 raw eggs
1/2 of 15oz jar wheat germ (about 2 cups)
5 packages Knox unflavored gelatin
5/8 cup vegetable oil (this is pretty close to 2/3 cup)
5/8 cup unsulphered molasses
pinch of salt
The half recipe, using hamburger that is 20% fat calories, has 12,400 calories. The last batch I made ended up making 22 patties, so each has about 560 calories. I have big dogs (Danes) so if your dog is smaller you might want to make your Satin Balls or patties smaller.
I find that making the half recipe is so much easier that it is worth doing even though you have half-boxes of things around for awhile and have to mix it up twice as often. The disadvantage of the full recipe is the need of a really BIG container and it is very hard work to mix it all up.

Satin Balls Full Recipe
10 lbs cheap hamburger (high fat %)
1 large box Total cereal (about 12 cups cereal)
1 large box uncooked oatmeal (about 15 cups oats)
10 raw eggs
1 15oz jar wheat germ
10 packages Knox unflavored gelatin
1 and 1/4 cup vegetable oil
1 and 1/4 cup unsulphered molasses
pinch of salt



Notes:
"Whole Wheat Total" cereal (blue box) comes in large 1 lb 2 oz size (about 12 cups settled) and a smaller 12 oz size (about 8 cups cereal), which would work in Little Dog or Half Recipe. But in the long run, the large size is more economical. Don't get Raisin Total or Lo Carb Total.
Uncooked Oatmeal like "Quaker Old Fashioned Oats" and less expensive supermarket house brand, come in large 2 lb 10oz size (15 cups oats) or smaller 18 oz size (about 7 cups oats).
15oz jar of wheat germ is about 4 cups. Some stores only carry a 12oz jar of wheat germ, which contains about 3 and 1/4 cups of it.
Vegetable oil -- use a good one. I use grapeseed oil, olive oil would be next best.
Tip: I don’t break the eggs directly into the pot of stuff. The first time I broke the eggs into a separate little bowl for some reason. One of the eggs was bad and it would have ruined the whole pot of stuff. I had never seen an egg like that and had no reason to expect it, but I never break eggs directly into anything anymore.
The Satin Ball patties were what Duke started eating when he wouldn’t eat anything at all after his torsion surgery. He still gets one a day. It is important to stick to the proportions. I gave the recipe to someone whose dog wouldn’t eat, she told me she made them but he wouldn’t eat them. Then she told me what she did to the recipe, changing it so much that it ended up something entirely different (no wonder her dog wouldn't eat it). You need to follow the recipe carefully if you are going to go to the trouble and expense of making it
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
I have never fed them, and I have NO IDEA about the nutrition, etc of the things--I'd be interested in knowing what you expert guys think of Satin Balls as a way to up the weight and keep the weight on dogs (for dogs who have no appetite due to illness, I think)

Here's an old post about them:
I never feed satin balls to a dog who is eating well. Their original purpose was for use by handlers carrying client dogs to shows when they had a dog who didn't eat well enough to stay in show weight on a long circuit (and they were usually force fed--the consistency made them easy to poke down a dogs throat.)

Subsequently they started being used for dogs who were not eating well at home (illness, surgery etc). Some dogs will eat them but a rather surprising number of dogs don't.

I never made up more than the little dog recipe. And you need to have freezer room to store them and they should be frozen immediately after you make them. I made them up in 1/2 cup sized cylinders (so that if the dog decided not to eat them on his own I could sit him down and easily push them down his throat--sounds horrible but the only time I resorted to satin balls was for a post gut surgery to remove an inedible object. And you don't want to even try this for a dog who has a diagnosed case of pancreatitis because they can aggravate that.

If I have a dog who is too thin but eating well I'd much rather that they eat on their own and giving additional food would be my solution.

I think that Bonnie's solution (adding a third meal of kibble for a raw fed dog) would work pretty well--kibble provides enough carbs that you'll get a pretty immediate response in weight gain.

It doesn't sound like Hope has a problem with lacking appetite so I wouldn't even be considering satin balls.

But that just my opinion--I know people who swear by them for weight gain--although I don't think they are so much used any more as they used to be.

dobebug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Satin balls are great for a dog on the show circuit that goes off his food. Stress can take its toll for a dog not used to the routine and being away from his home. They are a pain, but they work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #111 ·
It doesn't sound like Hope has a problem with lacking appetite so I wouldn't even be considering satin balls.
Oh no. No, no, newpe - Definitely not a problem. Not with the way he inhales whatever gets put in front of him as soon as human hands are clear of the target!

Operation Eat This seems to be working relatively quickly. Today he was sun basking per the early afternoon routine, and there was a wonderful lack of pronounced vertebrae where the same position last week showed very visible ridges.






His ribs are less pronounced and his hips have beefed up as well, but his shoulders still look a bit bony so we're keeping him on the bonanza for now.
 

·
Got mutt?
Leo, Lily, and Simon
Joined
·
14,228 Posts
I never feed satin balls to a dog who is eating well. Their original purpose was for use by handlers carrying client dogs to shows when they had a dog who didn't eat well enough to stay in show weight on a long circuit (and they were usually force fed--the consistency made them easy to poke down a dogs throat.)

Subsequently they started being used for dogs who were not eating well at home (illness, surgery etc). Some dogs will eat them but a rather surprising number of dogs don't.

dobebug
I gave Ilka satin balls after she stressed off six pounds she couldn't afford to lose when she was boarded one time. She went into the kennels already about four pounds under her ideal weight, so she was skinny when she got home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: melbrod

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #114 ·



63 lbs today. I'd hoped for a gain of more than one pound after two weeks of the newly increased diet, but at this point we'll take what we can get.







He looks better. He's nowhere near where we'd like him to be, at least visually, but his ribs/vertebrae/hips/etc. no longer look alarmingly pronounced and despite some ungodly flatulence from the introduction of kibble at lunchtime, he seems to be doing well.
















Sometimes, though, he'll be standing in the right light or at the right angle when I catch glimpses of an emaciated dog and it freaks me out, but all I can say is that this is one very well fed canine right now and I can only hope that he will visibly start filling out soon. And quickly. Please. 🙏







In other news, I hate leaves. Or maybe I hate trees. They are cool when they look like this:







But not so cool when this:




Ugh. Anyway, I hope everyone has a great Sunday as always!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #116 ·
Visibly improved. Better to gain it gradually as you are doing.
Gorgeous fall colors you have there!
Thank you, and I know you're right. He didn't get too thin overnight, and sane and reasonable expectations demand the same slow reversal.

We start obedience training on Friday with one of the highest-rated local training facilities, and hopefully things go well!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
Thank you, and I know you're right. He didn't get too thin overnight, and sane and reasonable expectations demand the same slow reversal.

We start obedience training on Friday with one of the highest-rated local training facilities, and hopefully things go well!
I'll say ditto to those who think Hope has visibly appeared to have gained some weight. As for the flatulence--it's a shock to the system of a dog who has been raw fed to have a bunch of carbs handed to him--don't know what you are feeding for kibble but just in general I found (and it's just one of the reasons that I like ProPlan--and I like the Salmon and Rice best of all since it seems to be the one most easily digested.

He's lovely amidst the fall colors--he's your Autumn flavored dog--a nice mix or match with the falling leaves.

I'm sure that you will do well--individually and as a pair.

I just can't tell you how much I enjoy Hope's pictoral diary--and I'm know I'm not the only one.

dobebug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #119 ·
Ziva stayed around 60 lbs FOREVER! Then all of a sudden at 4 1/2 yrs she was 70 lbs, but still lean. She's now over 7 and has stayed at 69-70 lbs. All about genes I guess.
Thank you, very good to know and greatly reassuring!

As for the flatulence--it's a shock to the system of a dog who has been raw fed to have a bunch of carbs handed to him--
It's so bad. Comically bad. Especially at night when he's whuffed around trying to get comfortable on the bed and ends up blasting that shotgun at my face!

don't know what you are feeding for kibble but just in general I found (and it's just one of the reasons that I like ProPlan--and I like the Salmon and Rice best of all since it seems to be the one most easily digested.
ProPlan salmon and rice, got it. I don't know what he's on right now, but I'll take a look. I don't think it's a big bag so ProPlan will be next.

I just can't tell you how much I enjoy Hope's pictoral diary--and I'm know I'm not the only one.

dobebug
Thank you very much. It's great to be able to share our journey somewhere he's appreciated, and where I can get such invaluable advice to keep the big guy going. This forum has been an amazing resource since day one and I pray that I'm here discussing Hope for a very long time. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Discussion Starter · #120 · (Edited)
I was out with the big guy this foggy morning and, besides thinking about how much I loathe raking leaves, found myself also thinking that he's looking a lot better. He's back to looking more muscular than Sony bony, and whlie I still catch a rib, shoulder/hip bone or vertebrae poking out more than I'd like, he's looking a lot healthier to my untrained eye than a few weeks ago.










He has his first real obedience training tonight followed by his first birthday tomorrow, so we're hoping for a great weekend. 😎






I hope everyone has a great one as well.
 
101 - 120 of 142 Posts
Top