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I am considering the purchase of a Doberman in the near future. I have owned one before (black/rust) and loved him dearly, unfortunantly he is at the rainbow bridge. I am really interested in the Isabella color and came here looking to see if there is any good information on this particular color.
 

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Welcome to the board. I have a beautiful Isabella (Fawn) female named Princess. The color is beautiful and "unique". I have heard that this color is effected by dry/thin coat and they are sensitive to direct sunlight. However, I have not yet experienced anything out of the ordinary with Princess. I would say that it depends on the quality and dedication of the breeder along with your upkeep of proper care and nutrition.

Here are a few pics of her as a puppy and now almost 16 months.









Feel free to ask any other questions you may have, I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge. There are many other members who are more knowledgeable with the breed and I am sure they will also help.

Good Luck
Naveen
 

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Hi and welcome to the forum from me brumwolf and my girls here in the U.K.
 

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welcome to the forum rhannah! (Naveen, princi really is getting to be quite the big girl - and a beauty!) sorry to digress - I am ealsiy distracted by pictures of pretty dobes - not that there are any ugly dobes on this forum!

you will find lots of very helpful and smart people here. you absolutely came to the right place and we are glad you did.

I am owned by a 5 year old doberboy named Apollo. he is my second, and I am itching for another - hubby and are are debating another rescue in a few months (we got Pollo back in January as a rescue) or a pup to show next summer. Personally, my preference is both. I would like a herd o dobes ;) someday

welcome again
cc
 

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Welcome to the forum. I agree with the quality breeder and good upkeep. I have an Isabella(fawn) and have heard many things about the coat and skin. I have been lucky I suppose that I have not had the issues. Only occ. dry skin. That is mainly in the winter. My chihuahuas get dry skin too at that time. My house gets extra dry and I add a humidifier in their room. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here that can help you in every step of the way.
 

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Hello and welcome to the forum. Well you have come to the right place! you will find lots of information here on your quest to a fawn Dobermann. I have a blue female Iris who is 2 along with 3 black and rust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you all for the warm welcome.

Mrdesi, your Princess is gorgeous, and those ears look great!!! May I ask who your breeder is or can you recommend a breeder you would trust that produces the Fawn? Where approx are you located? I can't get over the beautiful ears, I might have to take a trip when the time comes to have mine cropped......Listen to me, I am talking about cropping ears that I don't even have yet.
 

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Lol. Maybe... :)
 

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The problem with the fawn(Isabella) and blue Dobermans is not occasional dry skin. The problem is baldness. A lot of them go bald when they reach maturity. I have heard it's as high as 75% of the blues and 50% of the fawns. I don't know if that's true or not but it seems to be close based on indiviudal dogs I've known and heard about.

Some of the dilute dogs don't have any coat problems. Some have only a slight problem, like dry skin and thinning coat. Some go completely bald, except for the rust color of the markings. The problem is in the dilute hairs, the blue or fawn hairs, that's why the coat stays on the markings. Some of the dogs who go bald develop secondary problems with skin infections, some don't.

The usual time for onset of this problem is with maturity, about four years old or older. Younger dogs and even puppies can sometimes manifest the problem, but those are exttreme cases. It would be unusual for a 16 month old to be going bald already. That doesn't mean it won't go bald as it matures.

So, you can't judge by people's dilute puppies or young dogs whether the dogs are going to lose their coat or not. If they do go bald they need special care for their skin, special shampoos, creams, etc, and to try to keep skin infections from happening.

They need protection in both cold and hot weather because of the exposed skin. Before hair loss they need good nutrition, and special care of their coat to try to keep it healthy.


It's hard to be proud of the appearance of your Doberman when it's bald, not to mention comments from the public when they see him/her.

I'm only mentioning this so that people know what they're getting into before they get into it. The reason the dilute colors (blue and fawn) are not popular is because of the coat/skin problems. It's not any kind of color prejudice, it's a health issue.

Some people say they have bred lines of dilutes that don't have this condition, but there never seems to be any proof. So lacking proof I wouldn't believe it just on their say so.

I thought I saw Desi say once that they wouldn't go to the same breeder again for another puppy.

The best way to look for a puppy is not to look for someone "who breeds fawns". The only people who breed specifically in order to produce the dilute colors are irresponsible, unethical backyard breeder/greeder types.
They like to produce dilutes because they think they're "rare", and so they can sell them more easily and for more money. The dilutes aren't "rare", they are less common than the other colors and the reason for that is that most ethical breeders try not to produce them because of the coat problems. Even those that don't mind breeding them don't deliberately set out to produce them.

In fact a test has now apparently been developed that will tell an owner whether their dog is capable of producing a blue or fawn, and armed with that knowledge ethical breeders can make informed decisions on whether to produce them or not and most will decide not to produce them if they feel they can breed good quality puppies without that added issue.

That will mean that even more than it is today, the dilute colors will be produced by unethical breeders.

The best way to find a good puppy is to look for a good puppy, use the Doberman buying guide that has been posted many times, if you need it posted again, I will, but I don't have the link handy right this minute. Learn how to tell an ethical breeder from an unethical one. Look for health testing and titling, in performance and conformation if possible, along with temperament certs, and look for longevity, before looking for color.

Some ethical breeders will get fawns in their litters occasionally, some won't. Once you find some ethical breeders you can check into which ones might produce some fawns.
 

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Ears. A responsible breeder will have the puppies' ears cropped before they go to their new homes. So the new owner will not have to worry about that, or have to try to find a vet who will crop ears, at all, and hope that vet will do a good job, which they usually don't.
 

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micdobe- Great write up. You are right about the skin condition problems and thank you for pointing them out. Maybe I misunderstood you but are saying only Black/Rusts should be bred??

I can sit here and type that Dobermans are affected greatly by VWD, Cardiomathy..etc and therefore anyone who breeds them is an irresponsible, unethical, backyard breeder/greeder. I am not disagreeing with your facts as I am sure you have done your homework, but your tone seems a tiny bit biased. I have seen other Fawns and Blues over the age of 6 and they are in great shape and their skin and coats are fabulous. Maybe those are the only two.....who knows.

rhannah--finding a good reputable breeder is the first thing and then you go from there. I can get you the contact information for the breeder I used and you can make a judgemnt/decision from there. I live in Virginia and picked up Princess from Ohio.

I had Princess's ears cropped once I got her here in Virginia since I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that or not. I was given this option by the breeder herself. I personaly disagree with micdobe's comment that a reputable breeder should have the ears cropped before the puppy leaves their home.

I went to the local vet before I got Princess and asked questions regarding ear crops, they said they did not do ear crops at that location and that they could get someone to come in and do them if I liked. I asked for credentials, photographs..etc they had none so I decided not to use that vet.

I later contacted a trainer who was suppose to come to my house once Princess arrived to help us train her and she recommended a vet who would do the ears. I went and spoke to the vet, saw pictures, saw how many different dogs he had cropped and cropped well. It is silly for a breeder to say "you have to decide now if you want to crop or not". A reputable breeder will help you in that decision and if you decide to do it later that breeder will help you find a reputable vet who does tha ears, but not force you to make that decision when you get the puppy.

Anyways...sorry for the long rant.

Naveen

Naveen
 

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The good breeders do not tell buyers to "decide now" if they want their puppies cropped or not. They crop the whole litter just like they dock all the tails. There are several others here besides myself who can tell you the same thing. I have never gotten a Doberman puppy yet that wasn't cropped and the edges healed before I got it.

We have all seen the posts on here from people who are asking for help locating a vet to crop their puppies' ears. We have all seen the bad ear crops of the puppies done this way. Your bitch has nice ears, my puppy has nice ears, my puppy's ears were cropped by the breeder before I got him. They were cropped by a vet who is well known to good Doberman breeders for the quality of the ear crops she does. Breeders fly her in to their areas to crop the entire litter at once for them.

The standard for the breed calls for cropped ears, it does not say either is acceptable, like the Boxer standard does. Whether a dog is going to be shown or not is not the point, it's just good practice for the breeder to crop the ears and make sure they puppies get a good crop and that the aftercare is done right, and the taping started so the puppy does not have to suffer thru some of the things we on the internet have been hearing about from breeders who don't do these things.

A novice owner has too many other tings to deal with in raising a Doberman puppy without having to worry about finding a vet to crop the ears and whether the vet will do a good job and whether the ears are healing correctly, etc, etc.

No, I am not saying that only black/rust dogs should be bred. Red dogs are not dilutes, either, for one thing. Black Dobermans *are* black and rust, red Dobermans are red and rust. The rust is the color of the markings, not the name of the body color.

There are reputable breeders who do not want to consider breeding a DNA teste vWD affected dog. I would not go that far, but I would recommend that the other parent have the same testing done and not breeding affecteds to affecteds.

What I said was that now that breeders have the tool that will enable them to not produce dilutes if they don't want to, I think, *I* *think* that most of the good breeders will try not to produce dilutes. That is because they don't want the coat problems. You have one 16 month old fawn and you have seen one or two other dilutes with coats. Do you think that people who have been in the breed 40 or 5o years are all going around saying this is a problem when it isn't? What for? I personally like the fawn color on a Doberman very much. The breeder I got most of my dogs from tried to not produce dilutes. She succeeded therefore there was never a question of my getting a dilute from her. Altho I did tell her if she ever produced a fawn I would take it. Because I like the color, and she wouldn't know what to do with a dilute, she'd give it to me to just so it would have a good home, and on that basis I'd take my chances with the coat. But I never went out and actively looked for a fawn to buy, even tho I like the color because I am too apprehensive about the coat/skin problems.
 

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MrDesi said:
It is silly for a breeder to say "you have to decide now if you want to crop or not". A reputable breeder will help you in that decision and if you decide to do it later that breeder will help you find a reputable vet who does tha ears, but not force you to make that decision when you get the puppy.
I'm sorry, but I don't need puppy buyers to tell me (as a breeder) what decisions to make with my puppies. At the optimum time for cropping, the puppies belong to me. What is done with them is my decision, and that decision is to crop all the puppies. I know where to go to have it done right and to have it done well. It is my duty to see the puppies through the procedure and to make sure they are healed before heading out the door. It is my duty to teach my buyers how to post the ears correctly, and to follow up with each owner, as necessary.

Any puppies I produce are my responsibility for their lifetime, and I will always take back any puppy at any time for any reason. I do an awful lot of rescue work, and I'm well aware that most people ask for a cropped Doberman and I see natural eared Dobermans getting passed over and sitting in rescue longer than they should, and certainly longer than they would if they were cropped.

The uncropped Dobermans we get in rescue are ALWAYS from backyard breeders. Not one of them has ever been a registered dog from a reputable and/or responsible breeder. Not even one!
 

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MaryAndDobes said:
I'm sorry, but I don't need puppy buyers to tell me (as a breeder) what decisions to make with my puppies. At the optimum time for cropping, the puppies belong to me. What is done with them is my decision, and that decision is to crop all the puppies. I know where to go to have it done right and to have it done well. It is my duty to see the puppies through the procedure and to make sure they are healed before heading out the door. It is my duty to teach my buyers how to post the ears correctly, and to follow up with each owner, as necessary.

Any puppies I produce are my responsibility for their lifetime, and I will always take back any puppy at any time for any reason. I do an awful lot of rescue work, and I'm well aware that most people ask for a cropped Doberman and I see natural eared Dobermans getting passed over and sitting in rescue longer than they should, and certainly longer than they would if they were cropped.
I agree with Mary 100% about this. I'd never even consider placing an uncropped doberman puppy. That would be for all the reasons she stated..and one other..if/when I breed a litter, it's to try to achieve MY vision of the doberman. And that vision DOES NOT involve animals with ears like a hound.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of breeders I'd ever recommend that are willing to place uncropped puppies. It's a GIANT red flag when you see a breeder who's willing to do that...in most cases, breeders don't crop their puppies because they're too cheap to make the cash outlay to do so.
 

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The problem with the fawn(Isabella) and blue Dobermans is not occasional dry skin.
That is true. I apologize if my post was misleading that it was the issue.. I was was just stating that IME that was my problem and I was lucky. Thank you for posting the information. It is important for people to know what they are getting into before they decide fully.
 

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I agree 100% with Micdobe, Maryanddobes, and Murrydobe.
Reputable Doberman breeders crop their puppies before placement. Backyard breeders do not or they "offer" the option, which is also something reputable breeders as a whole just don't do, and with excellent and valid reasons that were already explained in great detail above.
Not cropping the ears on the puppies they produce is a huge red flag.

It is a fact dilutes (blues and fawns) are more susceptible to skin issues, more so than blacks or red. I don't dislike the dilute colors either but some require extra care, which must be kept in mind.
The problem is when backyard breeders advertise them as "rare" and charge more or act like they are worth more due to their coloring.
I am with the others; I think buyers should know what they are getting into before they take home any Doberman, especially a dilute Dobe.
 
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