[StellaBeans]

Hi! I am new to this group and was hoping for some help from other members. I have a 15 month old Doberman/Great Dane Pup, Stella, that is a BALL of energy. She is crated during the day while I am at work (for her own safety and my sanity) because she gets herself into everything, which is to be expected at this age.

The problem that I am having is with dominance. Since I got her she has had a very strong personality, which I know can be a trait of dobermans. She is a very smart dog, and learns quickly, but tends to only do what she wants when she wants.

Recently, in hopes of starting to work with her in order to leave her out of her crate, I have been leaving her out at night with restriction to my bedroom. Of course, she chooses to sleep on my bed, usually on top of me. I know this is a bad thing, and I am trying to correct it, but trying to keep her off of the bed throughout the night would mean not sleeping at all because of her persistence. Lately (within the last 2 weeks), when trying to move her off of me, or the pillows or bed, she has growled at me. It started the first night with me waking her up to not spook her, and then trying to move her slightly. She attacked my hand and bit me. I was sure that it was due to me startling her because after a second she realized what she had done and started licking me. This morning, I tried to move her again by her collar and she growled. I am not sure if this is strictly a dominance thing?? or if this might be signs of true aggression?? I am looking for advice on how to handle this. I know that I can not allow this behavior to continue, but am unsure the best way to correct the problem.

thanks for you help!
Alexis

 

[Dobs4ever]

First if you have not done any formal obedience with her that is the first mistake. So I recommend finding a good training program and get her in it. It is amazing how many things obedience corrects or never allows to develop.

Second research NILF Nothing in life is free - training program and start it immediately until you find a good trainer.

Did you rescue her from a pound - a Doberman Dane mix????

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Adara]

I would for now remove her from the bed. Then I'd find a great trainer to work with.

 

[Tperkins]

For starters if the problem is when the dog is sleeping in the bed, keep them off. If it is at night crate the dog. As for the snapping and general bad attitude I would look into some training and a behaviorist. That aspect of the problem will not be fixed over the internet. Good Luck!

 

[lolonurse]

This behavior did not just start all of a sudden. How old was she when you adopted her, and what is your experience level with dogs? Dogs generally do not have "dominance" issues unless they have a very weak, non-assertive leader, and then they feel the need to assert themselves into an absent role. Most dogs don't want the role, but in any "pack", a leader is required... sounds like you are not being "it".

If you work all day and find it necessary to crate a large, active young dog, what do you do for her in the morning before you leave her in a box, and what do you do with her in the evenings when you come home? Does she have the high-energy, high-fun-factor exercise and mental stimulation she requires for her physical, emotional and mental well-being? Do you take her to obedience classes, and work with her DAILY, to make sure that she both had self-control and respect for you as her leader? Do you do agility or flyball or some other form of sport/intellectual stimulation with her, so she isn't bored and looking for things to occupy her mind on her own - which usually equals trouble? Have you considered a Doggy Daycare a couple of days a week, to give her something to do besides lay in a box for 8 - 10 hours, waiting for her human to come home and free her? Doesn't sound like she has much going on, and she's making up for her life at night, by living a little at your expense. You need to keep her off your bed, but she's already in the crate so much that another 8 hours, imo, is simply cruel. What made you decide to get a dog - and such a high-energy, high-intelligence one, at that? I'm not asking that to be mean or snotty - I really am asking if you have plans to do something productive with her, because it sounds like she's not getting what she needs.

 

[StellaBeans]

Thank you to everyone that answered so quickly. I find that a lot of people ask me about my experience with dogs, and why I chose to adopt a doberman. I do have experience with multiple breeds of dogs. I previously had a Shephard/Malamute mix, a pit bull/lab mix and had collies growing up. I did research on the doberman breed and was aware of their energy level and their other traits prior to adopting. I know that from the situation, it probably does look like I may be the submissive in the situation, but I don't feel like I am. Maybe I am not as "dominant" as I think.

As for the questions about formal training, I have taken her to 3 levels of class, beginner and advanced puppy and beginner obedience. I am re-enrolling her in beginner obedience with a different trainer that starts in December. I had to take a few months off, but plan on continuing the training. When first adopting her, I was hoping to get her into flyball, or agility of some sort, but feel that she needs a little more confidence in the obedience part first.

As for the comments about being locked up while I am at work, I totally agree. I am in the process of trying to not have to lock her up while I am gone, but it is a work in progress, which has started with being allowed out at night. I think that getting her back into classes will be a good outlet for her energy, especially if I get her into agility or flyball.

I understand that my training issues can not be fixed via the internet and I wasn't attempting to get them corrected in that way. Maybe I didn't word it correctly. I guess I was looking more for suggestions on training regiments that people have found worked well on the breed, that could help with the situation. I do agree that keeping her off of the bed will be the first step. Thanks for the comment about "Nothing In Life Is Free" training! That is great information which we do practice with her for food, attention, etc. but I think that I need to be more strict with myself about following the rules for other aspects of our daily routine. I know that the problems can be corrected and am willing to work for it so please keep the suggestions about training programs coming!!

Thanks again!

 

[GingerGunlock]

Nothing in Life is Free can really go a long way to teaching a dog self control and thinking. I think re-enrolling in Obedience is a good way to perhaps reconnect with your dog, and get both of you in a livable head space.

Personally, my Doberman sleeps with me, in my bed, and has since she was reliably potty trained. She is frequently on me, but most of the time it's just her head. If she's encroaching more than that, well, we have a "move" cue so I can have some of the bed too! We also have an "off" cue, which might help you out.

Play around with "on" and "off" before bed time, positively and with treats, so that it isn't you losing out on sleep and her already sleeping and entrenched. To me, though, with your girl, the growling sounds less like "true aggression" and more like a young dog trying to see what she can get away with. The bed is comfortable!

 

[MeadowCat]

It might also be a resource guarding issue. If that's a possibility, I highly recommend Jean Donaldson's book, "Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs." It is easy to understand and outlines a step by step plan for eliminating the problem.

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

Just for clarification, you adopted her from a shelter/rescue group? I only ask because "DoberDanes" have made their way into the designer dog world

You've gotten excellent advice about the dominance issues already. I just want to add that you should really focus on creating a strong training foundation for her. In my experience, Great Danes, as a breed, are prone to fear based aggression and other fear issues. Even some of the most socialized Dane puppies can still have fear issues as adults. Since your puppy didn't come from the best circumstances, I can only imagine that temperaments were the least of the breeders' concerns.

 

[Q734]

She would lose all furniture privileges in our house for 6 months intervals.

If she's like that w/toys too she'd get toys outside over here and that'd be it.


Then if she "graduates" & fails again, off the bed/couch/chair again for another 6 months & onto a kuranda bed if she's prone to destroying things.

Curious how this story ends.

It took our girl a year 1/2 to get a clue in furniture/toy regard. She has only been allowed on the couch 2 years, & sleeping w/us all the last year or so, w/no relapses. She's 4 1/2 now.

 

[StellaBeans]

GingerGunLock - Thanks for the post. I do agree that I think she's "testing the waters" and I feel like she was doing more of a dog way of telling me to "not bother me". But, that being said, it is not something that is acceptable. I am going to start working on the "on" and "Off" commands and working on the "move" command while we're not actually sleeping. Hopefully this will help. I don't mind her on the bed, but only if she is respecting the rules!

MeadowCat - thanks for the advice on the book. I am going to look into that right away!

RottonVonSpotten - I did adopt her, but not from a shelter (I'm sad to say) A woman had breed her dane and doberman "On accident" and although I do not agree with that at all, all dogs need a home... I am a fan of both breeds and I have heard that about Danes. My cousin has a very large harlequin dane that suffers from the fear issues. She is sweet, but very timid. I agree with the need for more training and am working in that direction. I know that she is a very intelligent dog, and could go far in obedience with a little time and work.

Q734 - Thanks for the advice about "grounding" I did remove her privileges and will until she has a little better attitude. Hopefully things will work out.


Thanks to all for the advice! I will keep this updated to let you know of her progress. Our next class starts this monday at a new facility. The owner/trainer is also a certified behaviorist, so I am looking forward to working with her!!

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

Well it looks like you are on the right path. All we need now are pictures!!

 

[StellaBeans]

RottenVonSpotten - pics posted in my gallery

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

She's really cute!!

Which parent was the Doberman/Dane? What color was the Dane? Sorry for the questions, I really love both breeds

 

[StellaBeans]

Mom was a Doberman, Dad was a Dane... but honestly I'm not sure if he was all Dane or not. I am familiar with all of the varieties that Danes come in, and his markings were not one of them. He had markings that almost resembled a sable collie. It didn't matter to me, as I was only looking for a pet, not breeding quality or pure bred standards. I just wanted to take Stella home. The litter had 3 puppies. 2 girls and one boy. The woman kept one of the females - she looked very similar to Stella, only in her black Dobe markings, she had merle undertones like a Dane. She was really pretty. Originally I had wanted a male, and was going to take her brother, but once I met them both, I opted to take her. The male had a boxier head, that looked almost Rott like and courser hair. I think that he would have been more Dane like in build. Stella is very slender with LONG legs, which everyone says we have in common! . She definitely has the Dane "rear end" and the doberman head. Her tail is ALL dad's though (long and skinny) and I see similarities to what I've read, know and been told about both of breeds personalities. I am really excited for her first class this Monday! Having the behaviorist's opinion and a source of mental and physical stimulation for her will be great!

I'll post after the class!

 

[Whiskey]

Hope everything goes well for you and Stella with the behaviorist and that you guys get this sorted out so everyone lives comfortably. Paws crossed!

 

[Jennie ATX]

Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble, ya know? I don't understand why people allow dogs in their bed in the first place.. that is not an insult to anyone who enjoys it.. but for me personally, I do NOT like being kicked/bonked/stepped on/woken up by dogs, and I definitely don't like the tiny doberhairs getting all over my sheets. So, no dogs allowed in my bed. If I were you I'd start by training her to be loose in your bedroom, but NOT allowed on the bed. In my house furniture is a privilege dogs have to earn and if any dog ever growled at me over it - that dog would lose furniture privileges immediately.

The book MeadowCat suggested is a good one. I think people use the whole "dominance" thing too loosely because of TV shows - I really don't think most dogs are plotting to become "dominant" over you.

 

[Audrey1]

What a pretty dog she is!! Nice photos. A lot of good advice was posted and sounds like you are on the right track. Keep us posted on progress.

 

[katethegreyt]

Lots of great advice so far, so I'll just repeat for agreement = )

1) No furniture privileges. You can work on an "off" and "on" command to help cement this. I let our girl on the furniture because she has proven herself. We don't require her to "ask" because she is quite trustworthy and polite about it. However, she is off in a flash (no matter how deep in sleep) if I say "off." She's amazing about it. Using positive training methods to get an on and off command working should help you avoid any aggressive seeming responses and will give your dog some vocab to work with.

2) Lots and lots and lots and lots of exercise. Get that dog tuckered out and you will have a polite sleeper. At her age and having to be kenneled during work hours, she will need some intense outlets. Physical exercise is huge, but don't forget about mental exercise. Mental gymnastics tend to tire a dog out more than physical, and it helps you bond. Training sessions are key to success. I've fallen in love with clicker training (even for my horse and cats!) but find what works for you. I push clicker training so much because it's an easy way for less experienced trainers to do good without the fear of "messing up" that can come with correction/punishment methods and lack of perfect timing.

3) As a temporary fix, perhaps start crating at night? I don't like crating as a long term solution, but it's certainly better than having nighttime bed fights for now until her training has progressed more. She could graduate to an ex pen and then hopefully to free roam at some point. Perhaps during the day you could graduate her to baby gated areas eventually? I find that a nice alternative to a crate, and it helps them expand their roaming area without overwhelming them with too many fun new places to get into trouble.

Good luck!