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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Im sorry its a long post but please stick with me on this as i really need some advice/help :sadcry:
Harvey has had bad seperation anxiety in the past which has got alot better although its still there. He was taking serrenum (sp?) to relax him when he was at his worst but he hasn't been taking them for a while as he got alot, alot better.

I feel a complete ******* as im gonna have to go back to work soon as we really need the extra income but im worried about Harvey and feel wrecked with guilt.

He gets left in the house at the moment when im gone for a day and is very well behaved ..no destruction or poops when i come back.

He has a very large sheltered kennel and run in the back garden where he can see the house full of blankets and wind proof and is very comfortable for him.

I need advice on how to handle this situation and get him settled in the kennel for when i go back to work. I feel awfull about putting him in the kennel but Michael will NOT let me leave him in the house all day and to be honest i would sorta like him to be out in the fresh air where if needed he can relieve himself and not left in one room allday.

He will be in the kennel for 5 days a week, 9am -5 pm and will be walked every single morning and evening and as soon as we are home he will be indoors in the family home smothered with love. Me and Michael are completely in love with harvey but im feeling the guilt majorly.

He has been in his kennel a few times but it has not been routine which i feel was silly of me as when im at home i like him in the house with me and the non-roitine of things doesn't help either. When he has been in their he will howl, jump up at the wire, rip at the wire with his teeth...we came back once to find he had ripped a hole in it and hung around in the back garden till we come back :sadcry: i really dont like to see him distressed..

I have asked the neighbours what he is like when i am out and she says he woofs and whines and then settles down then woofs and whines and settles down again..she says this carries on until we get back but he doesnt go crazy with the barking and isnt causing a nuisance to the neighbours so i gratefully i wont have them hammering on the door and complaining.

We are reinforcing the kennel and run so it will be bomb/ harvey proof and it will be ready in a week and i need to get cracking on dealing with the kennel ..

please, please give me some help and advice on how to deal with this..:frown1:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Is there maybe a schedule which i could work to in preparation? Somethign i could follow~ I realise routine is the key here but im lost where to start an i dont want to take any wrong steps which could worsen the behaviour ..i need the training as much as Harvey on this one..although i havent got a job yet i may have soon in about a month.

At the moment he is in the house with me nearly every day .. i walk him in the morning and late afternoon and spend periods of time ignoring him and i initiate alot of the affection so he doesnt get it on demand.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ok i have posted this on another forum and have been given advice to get a crate ..

any one else use crates with their dobies whilst they are out working?
 

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Yes that is what I recommend also, get a crate.

I leave Takira in her crate while at work and she is fine, perhaps I am lucky but no problems at all.

Also in our house she uses her crate to get away - relax so to speak. No kids around and she can just curl up and get a good nap. :D

I would get a crate and start crate training her, I think that would be better than outside IMHO.

TD
 

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Your best bet would be to get some clomicalm and work on behaviour modification at the same time. Clomiclam is great in conjunction with the modification, but is really not helpful by itself. Using a crate indoors, ( I don't like dogs left outside by themselves) get him use to you being gone for minutes at a time. Gradually increase the time you are gone. Be sure not to let him out of the crate when he is acting up. He must be quiet when released. One thing that can help alot is to exercise him befor e you leave. The saying a tired dog is a good dog is true. Another thing that helps is not fussing over him when you leave and when you come back. Ignore him when you come home for 10 minutes or so and when then greet him, but don't gush. Also, there is a product called Comfort Zone. It is a plug in that releases dog pheromones that is suppose to calm dogs. I use it in my house because Cole has slight SA and he would pee and poop in the house when I left. I have been using it about 6 months now and he has not had one accident since then. Good luck. It is a process but can be done.
 

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We went through hell and back with Scoob and SA and I'm proud to say that after five years of trying everything and anything, we've fianlly defeated it *knock on wood* :)

A crate would be a good place to start. It's not cruel to crate a dog as long as they're not in there for hours on end. A lot of dogs find a crate comforting and it becomes their little safe haven. If he's not used to a crate, you need to take it slow with him. I would not suggest that you put him in the crate for the first time and leave for work. Scoob was introduced to a crate when he was four years old. I would leave the door open for him, so he could explore it and would often leave treats in the back so he'd have to go all the way in. Once he felt comfortable walking in and out, once he was in, I'd shut the door for 30 seconds, then let him out and praise. The goal is to build up the time they're in there, at the dog's pace so they understand that the crate is a good thing. Scoob is a very needy dog so he took to the idea of the crate almost instantly and it didn't take long for us to build up his time in there.

I would also contact an animal behaviorist because one can work with you and Harvey on this problem in several different ways. They see this problem a lot and hopefully will be able to help you.

Another thing I used with Scoob was Rescue Remedy. He used to have to take Clomicalm in order to keep from freaking out when he was left alone but it bothered me to have him on those meds. A friend of mine had suggested Rescue Remedy(a combination of difference flower essences) because she had success with it working with rescued Border Collies. I would put four drops on my finger tips and gently rubbed it on the inside of his ear flap and this took the place of the Clomicalm til we found the solution. I was skeptical that it would have any effect but it did. I would come home to a dog that was relaxed and happy to see me and my house was intact. lol

Good luck with Harvey on this! I know how difficult and frustrating it can be. If you care to talk about it more, you can pm me. I have a few other suggestions, if you need more.
 

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I would also get a crate. Gracie loved her crate. She now has earned to be out of the crate all day! Even if we have to work she has free roam of the house. She is also on Clomicalm, I don't know if it works or not since Gracie just started it a few days ago. Good luck to the both of you and keep us updated please!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thansk all for you suppourt and advice ..i'm feeling pretty teary eyed over it all. I had thought about giving his just one room to be in but i came home once to find him trying to eat out the widow frames to get out so i think the cage would be the safest option..

what do you think about the size?
the largest one i have found is in inches 48 long 30 wide and 35 high.

My biggest hurdle is convincing michael as he really doesnt understand dogs. he loves harvey but just doesnt realise that they like the secure feeling that a cage can give them. He thinks a dog should be outside and thats that! he is south african and it seems South africa have all together different view on pets lol

We spent alot of money on the kennel and were looking to spend more re-inforcing it but the price of the crate would mean we would spend less in the long run and would have a happier harvey at the end of it.

It has been a rough ride and tearfull at times but he is a fantastic dog and i just want the best for him any more stories of success or advice would be great as tonight is gonna be the night where i have to try and convince michael of the benefits of a crate lol
 

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As long as the crate is big enough for him to stand up and turn around it is fine. When do you have to start work?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
well im looking for jobs right now so probably a couple on months if that..so as soon as.. i would rather get everything sorted out know that leave it till last minute and have me in tears and Harvey a wreck :-S
 

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Just make sure the crate is not too large, only enough room to comfortably stand up turn around and lay down. If you give them too much room they may poop or pee in the crate if they are not trained. Generally speaking a dog wont poop where it sleeps.

TD
 

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Wow sounds like Mark and Michael should go out for coffee ;-) Mark - in the beginning - had very strange views on how dogs should be kept, they should be outside, never on the furniture and fed the cheapest food possible (that debate carries on still today but he knows I won't budge :) ). Then enter our first "baby" Storm and by the end of day two he would carry her up and down the stairs and lift her into bed and onto the couch... hmm :)
Try explaining the positives of a crate and then suggest that the crate will only be used until Harvey has learned how to cope while you two are both away. Warn that it could take several months... By the time Harvey is good to go Michael will be so used to it he won't say anything when it becomes a permanent part of the furniture... Also add that they make great end tables :)
 

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I crate mine during the day, more for their own safety than anything else (see $1,200 sock obstruction surgery in the other thread).

My dobes stay in a 700 sized varikennel - 48"x32"x35"H - more than big enough for my male. I put these beds http://www.kuranda.com/main/index.asp in the bottom because I can't trust my rescue not to eat blankets.

My parents and my son both live within 10 minutes of me, so somebody comes and lets them out around lunch time. Do you have somebody near by who could let him out?
 

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When you come home ignore him for a few minutes. If anyone has watched that show on tv "the dog whisperer" they might understand: harvey is somewhat nervous when you are gone and he gets really excited when you are not home. this excitement is chanelled into unwanted anxiety. i would theorize that if he is less excited when you first come home he will be less excited when you are gone...
 

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A crate is a fantastic idea, don't beat yourself up over it. A parent puts their toddler in a playpen when they aren't able to have their eyes on them every minute for their own protection. He will be safer in a crate than outside in a kennel.

Definetely don't even acknowledge Harvey before you leave the house or when you return for a while. Just get your crate and start slow. Small amounts of time in his crate to be let out again. Key DON'T LET HIM OUT IF HE IS CARRYING ON. Only let him back out when he is calm. Otherwise you enforce the behaviour that if he carries on enough, he gets out.

I just started leaving Lexus out of her crate when I'm not home about three months ago. But if she exhibited behaviours like Harvey is right now, she'd be back in her crate in a heartbeat.
 

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I leave Gunner outside on abotu an 80ft trolley top run back and forth and since Daisy is little and with her ears and all she stays in the kitchen, but i introduced her to the crate the very first night and she loves it, also like someoen said, she goes in there to get away from things and to relax
 

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Discussion Starter #20
well i wish i could give more of an update but after a heated debate we (or i should say Michael) are still undecided. I show him the posts explained the 'den' thing dogs have and why he behaves the way he does. I have made immediate changes to the way i used to greet him and no longer fuss over him in the am or pm and at any times between where we have gone out shopping etc.

He is still saying we should put him in a very secure kennel and run in the back garden. The problem im having is that he will have no-one to come and let him out midday :(

Michael reasons to put him out there is so that he can poop and pee if needed , have space to run around and not be in a small cage..he really hates that idea no matter what i say.. His Kennel/run and house is 13 feet long and 6 feet wide .. with a full roof and seperate house built into it with a full concrete floor. We live in a rural area with an 8 feet fence around the whole property and his run has a padlock on the door.
 
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