[FranMan]

Figured I would say hello. Here are some pictures of my dogs with the Dobie being being the newest.

Here he is on his second outing.
http://boostedmopar.com/temp/Bailey.wmv

I hate to say it but the Dobie picks on my Rotty.

 

[DobeMom616]

Welcome. You have a male Rott and a male Dobe? How old are they? Are either neutered? Male dobes have a tendency to be same sex aggressive.

 

[FranMan]

Welcome. You have a male Rott and a male Dobe? How old are they? Are either neutered? Male dobes have a tendency to be same sex aggressive.

The rotty is fixed and is 15 months. He doesn't have problems with other dogs. The dobe is intact and around 2 years. He isn't too good with other dogs. I don't think his mom corrected him hard enough in his younger days. They are fine unless I come around. Then a fight will break out. So for the time being I keep them apart. I did order some muzzles to him with the aggression. I can walk them together and down stay them in the living room while watching tv. So it isn't an all out wanting to kill aggression but the dobe does try to get the second place rank. I was hoping the dobe would learn the rotty is a much bigger dog but he doesn't seem to understand it.

I would have a hard time clipping the dobe since he has so much drive for the bite work. He can very easily be a titled dog. In a group of GSD and Mal lovers he is very much liked his first and second time out. They for the most part don't like anything other then their breed.

 

[DobeMom616]

. . .SNIP. . .

I would have a hard time clipping the dobe since he has so much drive for the bite work. He can very easily be a titled dog. In a group of GSD and Mal lovers he is very much liked his first and second time out. They for the most part don't like anything other then their breed.

I am not that familiar with working dogs in bite work, but I don't think neutering him will affect his drive--I will let others on this forum speak to that. It may not help with the aggression either. I think you are going to have to keep them apart. I do not agree that muzzling the Dobe is the answer.

 

[dragonman]

Welcome to DT.

 

[FranMan]

I am not that familiar with working dogs in bite work, but I don't think neutering him will affect his drive--I will let others on this forum speak to that. It may not help with the aggression either. I think you are going to have to keep them apart. I do not agree that muzzling the Dobe is the answer.

If he becomes Schutzhund titled and his health checks out I would breed him for working lines or stud him out. That is why I don't want to neuter him. He is above pet quality IMO. My rotty is not which is why he is clipped. The muzzle would be to used to correct him when he becomes dog aggressive without getting the other dog bit. He if growls I can NO him, followed up by a correction if need be and not have to worry about it being a bite to my rotty.

I'll get some better pictures of him tonight. He is a good looking dog with lots of meat on the rear legs.

 

[robinb]

Neutering will not affect his drive or working ability in any negative way and it will improve his ability to focus on the job at hand. It will help some with his male aggresiveness. However, two males of that size could really injure each other and generally not a good idea.

 

[bleh60]

Hi franman, you are from rott.net as well right? Welcome to DT! As you can see I love dobes too! I read your thread about Sabot's weight watched the vids etc. I was wondering, why did you get this doberman?

 

[FranMan]

two males of that size could really injure each other and generally not a good idea.

That is very true. Which is why I ordered the muzzles. I hope they are waiting at the house today along with some other goodies.

 

[Julie W]

That is very true. Which is why I ordered the muzzles. I hope they are waiting at the house today along with some other goodies.

I personally am not a supporter of home-muzzle-wearing. Putting muzzles on two dogs that don't like each other and allowing them to be together does absolutely nothing to prevent dog aggression. It's a formula for extreme frustration and further anger and resentment. He's lovely and I wish you the best with him, but I feel it's just a disaster waiting to happen. I just scratch my head at the thought of bringing an intact male of a breed known for male/male aggression into a home with a male rott.

 

[lanabana]

I hope this isn't taken wrong and maybe I am wrong on this, but I would be very careful about having a prong collar or any collar while the dog is crated. It is not unheard of for a dog to somehow get stuck on the crate and get seriously injured. Just something I noticed in the pic

 

[frznbuns]

Well, I just wanted to say welcome to the forum. I hope that you enjoy it here. welcom again from the 4 doberman household

 

[Riagogogo]

I hope this isn't taken wrong and maybe I am wrong on this, but I would be very careful about having a prong collar or any collar while the dog is crated. It is not unheard of for a dog to somehow get stuck on the crate and get seriously injured. Just something I noticed in the pic

Happened to a friend of mines rottie. Came home and the dog was dead.

welcome to DT. Hope you find a lot of useful info here.

Please don't take any offense: Just being proactive for the breed...
although a little confused by this comment:
If he becomes Schutzhund titled and his health checks out I would breed him for working lines or stud him out. He is above pet quality IMO.

If he was sold as pet quality from a reputable breeder I am surprised he hasn't been neutered yet. JMHO

 

[FranMan]

I personally am not a supporter of home-muzzle-wearing. Putting muzzles on two dogs that don't like each other and allowing them to be together does absolutely nothing to prevent dog aggression. It's a formula for extreme frustration and further anger and resentment. He's lovely and I wish you the best with him, but I feel it's just a disaster waiting to happen. I just scratch my head at the thought of bringing an intact male of a breed known for male/male aggression into a home with a male rott.

In a dog pack who says who and when fights happen? The alpha which is me. The muzzle is just keep the dogs safe during the learning phase. It will become clear the dobie he isn't allowed to be aggressive.

I hope this isn't taken wrong and maybe I am wrong on this, but I would be very careful about having a prong collar or any collar while the dog is crated. It is not unheard of for a dog to somehow get stuck on the crate and get seriously injured. Just something I noticed in the pic

I had him all of 2 hour when I took that picture. I can see a lose pinch collar doing that.

Well, I just wanted to say welcome to the forum. I hope that you enjoy it here. welcom again from the 4 doberman household

Thanks!!!!

Happened to a friend of mines rottie. Came home and the dog was dead.

welcome to DT. Hope you find a lot of useful info here.

Please don't take any offense: Just being proactive for the breed...
although a little confused by this comment:
If he becomes Schutzhund titled and his health checks out I would breed him for working lines or stud him out. He is above pet quality IMO.

If he was sold as pet quality from a reputable breeder I am surprised he hasn't been neutered yet. JMHO

Who said the breeder though he was pet quality? Did you watch the video? This dog has lots of drive. Everyone at the bite work loves him for his drive. I heard comments like. Wow that is the second best dobie I have ever since, what it is only his second time on the field. This is coming from people that don't like Dobie (something about over/in/cross breed because they were fad dogs in the 70-80's). Yes if he got his Sch III he would be a very breed worthy dog. You can tell some working dog traits as a 8 week old pup but it is a crap shoot for the most part.





Here are some more pictures of him.

 

[DreamDoby]

Welcome to DT.

Please don't take somethings the wrong way. You are on a forum that is very passionate for this breed. People here strive to educate and help others out. As blunt as somethings can be, sometimes they are not helped and can be taken the wrong way.

On that note, you are in a situation that if I read correctly your male rotty is 15 months old and your male dobie is around 2yrs. Approaching maturity and unneutered already showing signs of aggression. You will find that most likely they will be more aggressive with eachother. You won't find the "alpha" position in that pack when they are together. You will most likely end up seperating them in the household completely. There are people that do that, and it is not easy. Do a search on male/male aggression and you will find a lot of information on this site alone about this. Another good page to read on this is http://www.kinetic-unity.com/males.html

 

[robinb]

Again, please don't take this the wrong way. I've lived with 4 dobe males since 1973. All but the current guy who is in the breed ring have been neutered by 18 months. Doberman male aggresiveness is even addressed in our breed standard for the breed ring. In 2000, a good friend of my fathers from WWII passed, he had a 10 year old neutered black lab, at the time I had a 6 year old neutered Dobe boy. I took the black lab as I was his only hope for the kind of life he had before. At the time, I was just retired so I was home all the time. Both dogs were very well trained and the set-up at my place is that no strange dog can get to my dog fence, double fencing, so there was no chance of a bitch coming up to the fence. I made it work and never had a fight. But the lab would back off when the dobe wanted in first or a toy or whatever, he never challenged the dobe. And I never left them out of eyesight or earshot together alone. If I went to town without the dogs, there was a door between them. And these were older, very well trained neutered dogs and one was a lab. I would have never considered it with one intact or with both being of higher drive breeds such as you are trying.

 

[FranMan]

N/m

 

[bleh60]

Franman, I did say hi to you previously in this thread, stating that I also remember you just recently joined rott.net.

I also asked why you have this dog. After that I read on the rott board that you are looking for a good SCH home for this dog.

 

[Fitzmar Dobermans]

Well, wow I took the time to download that file and watch it - BIG file - LOL!

What I saw was a young dog with good tug instincts - he really liked the tug and didn't want to give it up. It is someplace to start with any dog you want to train in a sport - they have to have the desire to play.

What I found more interesting was the converstation going on - could not get all of it, but got the name Top flight K-9, $1200 for a puppy UP FRONT before the litter is even born apparently. I thought that was interesting as I don't know of any breeder that would ask for the full price up front. The person talking said he had a waiting list. I'd be interested in knowing more about where your dog came from and his pedigree.

I think it is wonderful that you train with your dogs. I like to see people doing stuff with their dogs - whatever that might be............. and there are so many possibilities out there. While schutzhund is not my thing, I am interested in it. I do conformation/obedience/rally/Therapy Dog work with my Dobes. The proper temperament is so critical in any sport - you can really see the difference in a Doberman that is solid and one who is not.

I do think that the male and male thing could present a real problem. The two seem like they are pretty close in age and that is not a good thing. You can be as alpha as you want to be, and the aggression may still happen. I hope it can be controled, but I would not want to bet on it.

I also want to comment on the Schutzhund III/Breeding thing. While I do want to see titles on Dobermans and think that is a great thing, I also know that there are dogs out there with good temperaments and who with good training are perfectly capable of titling up to the Schutzhund III..........but they are still not breed worthy. There is more to it than the titling when you are looking at breeding. First and foremost, they need to meet the breed standard very closely - there is a reason for the standard. Proper temperament is included in the standard as it is such a part of the breed itself. Then there is health. Dobermans have several serious health issues, and while health testing cannot guarantee good health, it certainly should never be ignored. Pedigrees are also a key factor in breeding - knowing what is behind your dog is so important. Heredity and genetics always have to be considered.

If we are to strive for the total Doberman, all things must be looked at - not just one to the exclusion of all others.

I hope you stick around and enjoy the forum. There are many interesting people here, and we have a really diverse group that do just about everything you can do with Dogs!

 

[Julie W]

I was also interested in the background conversation and noticed the same things you did. I also noticed the person talking mentioned "keep the doberman...keep the doberman. What'cha wanna get rid of that dog for?!". It seems as if this dog has been for sale all along and the person talking thinks he may be a better sch prospect than his other dog the rott so should keep the doberman instead. I'm just not getting warm fuzzy vibes here.