[alwayshadpets]

I am gathering information as I have never had a dog in heat. I need tips. I have heard you can use disposable diapers--cut a hole out for the tail. Bleeding lasts for how long? Spaying not done until 2 months after her heat, which is about 1 month. Always on a leash outside. What do you do for exercise? Tamora is 9 months old. Correct me if I am wrong on anything.
Thank you again in advance.

 

[Murreydobe]

I am gathering information as I have never had a dog in heat. I need tips. I have heard you can use disposable diapers--cut a hole out for the tail. Bleeding lasts for how long? Spaying not done until 2 months after her heat, which is about 1 month. Always on a leash outside. What do you do for exercise? Tamora is 9 months old. Correct me if I am wrong on anything.
Thank you again in advance.

Bitches generally are in season for about 3 weeks, but that can really vary. There's about three days when they're actually fertile-again, when that happens can be different for every bitch, and even every season for every bitch..but on average, it should happen about halfway through the cycle. Many times you'll notice the discharge changes color when they reach the fertile time (standing heat).

I've never used disposable diapers, I use bitch pants, which I buy from a place called Sunnyhill Designs. Their pants seem to fit dobermans better than any others I've found.

I start bitches on chlorophyll tablets as soon as they go into season-this helps to keep the odor down (some bitches can be quite stinky when they're in season), and keep wandering males from being lured to your house. You can buy them online or in health food stores.

While I have a far amount of fenced property, I can arrange things with cross fencing so I have one small fenced area within it..I very CAREFULLY will let bitches out to play in this area, BUT I'M ALWAYS OUT THERE WITH THEM during this time..I don't ever, ever leave a bitch in season outside without any supervision. But you need to know your dog, know your area (chance of stray dogs, number of males in the area, etc.) and have a fair amount of control over your dog before you try this. If you have concerns, then don't let them outside unleashed.

Personally, I find bitches in season to be such a PITA, if the dog isn't being shown or used for breeding, I don't understand why anyone would consider not spaying prior to a bitch going into season for the first time.

 

[ps4570]

We just went through our first experience with a heat cycle with Lena. I would recommend gathering up your supplies now so that you have them when you need them. Which I bet will be real soon!

We found disposable diapers to be worthless. We ended up buying http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?R=460&Nav=1&N=0&Ntt=panties&sku=269301&familyID=6013& at Petco and using feminine hygiene pads. If I remember correctly, I bought a large and an extra large. My wife ended up throwing them both on her sewing machine to take in the waists.

We were adviced that it is best to let a bitch go through one cycle before spaying. It sounds like you are planning on having to contend with only the one cycle and the Petco product is fairly inexpensive. Since we are showing Lena we will be going through this process again. You will probably want two of whatever you get so that Tamora has something to wear while you wash the other one. (Notice I didn't say if you need to wash her panty due to a leak.)

I've been told timing can really vary, especially for the first cycle. We needed to keep something on Lena for about two weeks and had to keep her out of training classes for about three weeks total.

Our yard is fenced in but, Lena was never left alone outside without adult supervision. Our exercise routine remained the same. She is usually walked three times a day for a total of about five miles. My trainer advocated carrying a broom on walks, but we mostly just kept pepper spray on us. Fortunately, we didn't have any confrontations. In our neighborhood it is extremely rare to see a dog off leash.

 

[sorthund]

We were adviced that it is best to let a bitch go through one cycle before spaying.

Hmmm, I thought I had read that you can lessen the risk of certain cancers by spaying BEFORE the first heat... I'm confused. Does someone have more info? :emo6:

 

[alwayshadpets]

Thank you for info. Murrey dobe--whats the dosage on chlorophyll?

I have always had my bitches spayed before their first heat. Two different vets advised waiting for her to have her first heat. She had vaganitis quite a bit as a puppy. They said the estrogen she would produce with her first cycle would help avoid this problem in the future. No guarantee but a better chance of her not having that problem later. Having said that, around 5-6 months she was not having any more discharge. At that point in time I was afraid to have her spayed as she could come in heat at any time. It turns out I guess I would have been all right as she just turned 9 months. The vets, however still recommended to wait. I figured they are the experts. I thought it was worth it if it would help her future health.

My hats off to all you breeders out there, I don`t know how you do it. Its only day 1 for me and its driving me & her crazy. I do have some mens underwear on her now (reversed) until I can get something else. So any other advice or what worked for you is appreciated.

 

[ps4570]

Hmmm, I thought I had read that you can lessen the risk of certain cancers by spaying BEFORE the first heat... I'm confused. Does someone have more info? :emo6:

You are right. The risk of breast cancer is decreased with spaying. The risk is slightly higher if spaying occurs after one cycle and goes up with each heat cycle thereafter until a plateau is reached. I can't remember the number of cycles right off.

The advice I got was empirical - experienced based, and came from someone I have a great deal of respect for. I wonder if there is anyone out there that would be willing to defend this stance? I will say that the reasoning had little to do with spay induced incontinence.

So the question is, What are the perceived benefits (sorry to word it this way, but I'm unaware of any scientific studies) in putting off spaying until after the first heat cycle?

 

[alwayshadpets]

I too have heard about breast cancer increasing with delayed spaying. However having said that, I have not heard breeders saying that was what their bitches died of.
I had a spayed before coming in heat) doberman and she died of breast cancer at the age of 9. Go figure. Your blankety blank if you do and blankety blank if you don`t.
Tamora`s private part also needed to develop more. Her flap went (I`m sure I am not explaining this quite right) down a little more than average. She also had UTI several times. Now I could not tell you if her anatomical parts were perfect or not, because that is really one area I don`t normaly look at on a dog.
I`m just trying to do the right thing for her.

 

[Okie-dobie]

You are right. The risk of breast cancer is decreased with spaying. The risk is slightly higher if spaying occurs after one cycle and goes up with each heat cycle thereafter until a plateau is reached. I can't remember the number of cycles right off.

The advice I got was empirical - experienced based, and came from someone I have a great deal of respect for. I wonder if there is anyone out there that would be willing to defend this stance? I will say that the reasoning had little to do with spay induced incontinence.
So the question is, What are the perceived benefits (sorry to word it this way, but I'm unaware of any scientific studies) in putting off spaying until after the first heat cycle?

I was going to let ******* go through a heat cycle but is there any scientific back-up in regards to spay induced incontinence?
Also, I have always believed in letting them mature first. Although I cannot base this on any hard core evidence. Just my own feelings.

 

[Murreydobe]

I too have heard about breast cancer increasing with delayed spaying. However having said that, I have not heard breeders saying that was what their bitches died of.

I know quite a few breeders that have lost bitches to mammary cancer.

This is from Ione Smith's excellent site about spay/neuter:

"Spaying a bitch before her first heat reduces her chances of contracting mammary cancer *200 times* compared to intact females. Spaying after the first heat, but before the second heat, will reduce a dog's chance of contracting mammary cancer 13 times compared to intact females (Schneinder 1969, Schneinder 1970). Mammary cancer is the MOST common single type of cancer in intact bitches (Bastianello 1983, Kusch 1985). "

Approximately 20% of spayed bitches will develop spay incontinence-I personally don't believe the age they're spayed has anything to do with it. I've spent most of my life with spayed bitches-most of whom were spayed prior to their first season. In all that time (and many bitches), I've only had one with spay incontinence-she was a rescue that was spayed as a mature adult.

IMO, spay incontinence is a minor inconvenience that's almost always easily treated, and far less of a worry than mammary cancer or the risk of pyo, both of which can kill bitches.

 

[Murreydobe]

Thank you for info. Murrey dobe--whats the dosage on chlorophyll?

QUOTE]

I think I give Razzle 200 mg. twice a day. I just drop it in her food.

 

[frznbuns]

Raven was spay at 18 months, We were so afraid to spay her do to the Carrier status of her with VwD and she had bleeding problems before with minor cuts.. Within 2 months of spaying she had spay incontinence. Now she is 6 and still of meds every day. As for the bleeding problem, I used little girl panties on her with a pad. got a better fit, pad kept the smell down and Heck she looked so Cute in them and Love putting them on. LOL

 

[alwayshadpets]

Thanks frznbuns. My sister had incontinence with her dobie too--she gave her a pill twice a week--she did fine and lived to be 12. I think you made the right decision.
I have been experimenting with what works with Tamora. For the most part she keeps on, whatever I put on her, but I must admit when not looking she will take them off and fling them. She thinks its a great game. Day 2-- is not too bad at this point in time. (other than taking her out on the leash in all this ice and snow) She does not like to go in it and it takes her forever. Guess we`ll try to chip away to the grass for her--even though our driveway isn`t even shoveled.
Doing some research, found this site interesting.
Original at http://www.seefido.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf

 

[Dobesanddragons]

Guess we`ll try to chip away to the grass for her--even though our driveway isn`t even shoveled.

Good idea

 

[dobebug]

<<My hats off to all you breeders out there, I don`t know how you do it. Its only day 1 for me and its driving me & her crazy. I do have some mens underwear on her now (reversed) until I can get something else. So any other advice or what worked for you is appreciated>>

I had to laugh...a friend of mine has always used little boy jockey underwear for pants for her in-season bitches. She uses a mini pad and reverses them and uses a diaper pin to fit the waist. Work like a charm--particularly if they are not intended to remain fertile but are going through a single season. By the way--she buys six packs of the cheapest type she can find at K-Mart or WalMart and can toss the pad and wash the shorts and keep clean ones of the bitch.

It sounds like your vets recommended letting her go through a single season Alwayshadpets because she had an inverted or partially inverted vulva--that will often cause a lot of puppy vaginitis and/or UTI's and is generally fixed entirely when the bitch goes through a season instead of having to resort to surgery to correct it.

I don't think there is anything at all that has ever actually proven that early spays increase the possibility of spay incontinence. And Dobes aren't the only breed with the problem--practically every bitch we see in the vet clinic where I work that has spay incontinence is a large or giant breed. Some were spayed early and some were spayed late and at least a couple of labs weren't spayed at all. But they all have problems with incontinence--all but one of the labs is on Proin (ppa) and that lab is on DES as Proin didn't work well for her.

 

[kimberjac]

What I use...

When I have a bitch in season, I just use hubby's old briefs, turned backwards, pull the tail through the little hold and insert a cheap maxipad. It's a cheaper alternative.

 

[alwayshadpets]

Thanks kimberjac and dobebug. I think mens` underwear may be the best way to go. I bought some petco disposble diapers and their sizing is way off. She should have fit in the large and they are too small. So back to my husbands underwear, only I used a bag clip to tighten it up. I like your idea about the safety pin. I`m going to try that. She can flip that clip off pretty easy.
My other question is for anyone. Her vulva became about twice the size aprx. 1 or? week-weeks, before she started to spot. Would that be considered day 1 or is it from the time she starts to spot or bleed.. I would like to rush this, can you tell. It really hasn`t been that bad though, other than her having to be on a leash with me when she`s outside, she`s used to running. Also will the bleeding-spotting get heavier or? Just trying to find out what I can expect. Copper our 10 year old young lab (neutered) hasn`t shown any unusual attention towards her or she to him.
Thanks again.

 

[Murreydobe]

My other question is for anyone. Her vulva became about twice the size aprx. 1 or? week-weeks, before she started to spot. Would that be considered day 1 or is it from the time she starts to spot or bleed.. I would like to rush this, can you tell. It really hasn`t been that bad though, other than her having to be on a leash with me when she`s outside, she`s used to running. Also will the bleeding-spotting get heavier or? Just trying to find out what I can expect. Copper our 10 year old young lab (neutered) hasn`t shown any unusual attention towards her or she to him.
Thanks again.

Day 1 is considered the first day you see blood. You may see the discharge get heavier for the first week or so, then taper off again, it really depends on the bitch. With Razzle, it seemed like there wasn't as much of a discharge during her first season as there's been in subsequent ones.

Many (if not most) neutered males will care less about being around a bitch in season. But some of them (like my neutered male) have BIG ideas..Rush WILL breed Razzle if given the opportunity during the three days she's fertile. He's more obnoxious (yodeling, constantly trying to breed her) than many intact males I know. Again, it just depends on the dog.