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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everybody!!

First post here though I have lurked for awhile now....

As the title states I am having trouble deciding on a Dog and a breeder. I always wanted a big dog. I always wanted a Rott in the past, but They are banned at most every campground in America (along with "Pitt's"). I stumbled across a Presa Canario at a pet store and liked his look. But decided against them. in looking up mastiffs I found a Dogo and fell in love. Until back around the Superbowl this year I was corned in my chalet on vacation by a Dobie. It was a fawn girl -if she didn’t have a collar and was trained so well- I would of taken her!! I had been around Dobies some growing up and never had interest in them. I also never knew they were colors other than black. And seeing my first Fawn I never for a sec thought that she was a weimerreiner. Then I found Red Dobies and was like "well damn..." This guy here is the Dog I want:

http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman-related-chat/28150-big-red.html

That guy is perfect to me!! I’m not sure if he is European, But I like him. I am leaning against European from what I can find. I want a Doberman on the larger side of the spectrum with out going to legends and getting one that is too big for his own good. (and I’m sorry, but Nitro(?) doesn’t even look like a Dobie to me)

My kids are split, one wants the Dobie, the other a Dogo. I want Both. My biggest concern is the Dobie is banned in a lot of campgrounds, but not all of our normal spots. the Dogo is relatively unknown as of yet, but some campgrounds ban mastiffs period.

So I want both. I know I can't (nor do i want to) have 2 male puppies. (and I have no interest in breeding them together) Dogos were bred to be pack dogs but don’t like a male dog being dominant with them, which is what a Dobie will do with other males if I recall. I also have a 20# neutered lap dog now that will roll over and pee he is so submissive to other dogs. so hopefully the Dobie will be ok with him or the Dogo.

so My questions are this:
1) I want males, and I read somewhere that neutered male Dobies are the best behaved and sweetest. here say... IDK would a neutered male Dobie and a neutered male Dogo get along if I got the Dogo 3 years down the road? The Dogo matures slowly so I was leaning towards Dobies a bit in that regard cause I could get the 2nd sooner perhaps. or 1 male 1 female be best? as long I don’t have puppies that would be ok. I just don’t know the time frame/combination to get both that would best...

2) I see why legends is frowned upon. But why Familydobes and Kemberthal (sp?) why is everyone so sure they are mills? I was looking at dogs on Canis Maximus. and Von something or other I saw on here. Id really like to know where the big red Dobie above came from too. How do you know? The DCBA or whatever it is I have not found to be very helpful. Essentially, if I find a breeder that does all the health testing etc. is that considered a good breeder regardless of the amount of puppies they breed? is there a litter number that comes to mind that says these are mills?

and I thought I knew what Dogo breeder I liked too, but after reading so much here, I am second guessing him and everyone else...
Dogo Argentino - Argentine Dogo : The Original US Breeder Upholding the Standard! : Las Pampas Kennels : Los Andes Kennels : Puppies for Sale
I really like the look of his dogs.

so help me make up mind folks!!! I move into my new house end of August/beginning of September. 6.5 acres that need some dogs!!!

-sry for the wind....
 

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Dogos and Dobermans are very serious dogs and the puppies will be a LOT of work. I am glad you are doing your research. Since you have no breed experience with these powerful dogs I strongly suggest a female dobe and a male dogo and start with one first and put all of your time and energy into raising it into maturity before you even think about a 3rd dog. Male Dobermans are prone to same-sex aggression and neutering is not a magical fix. If it's in their genes to fight, nothing will stop them. I have 3 working breeds and no social life :) There is a lot more that should go into the purchasing of a certain breed than just their looks.
 

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Neutering makes no difference with male on male agression. My entire male was quite tolerant of other males that had good manners....my neutered male didn't have manners and was the one with male dog agression.

The thing about large kennels that breed a lot of litters that you have to think about....is if you have questions/issues/serious problems....what sort of time/help can they really offer you and the 100's of other owners of their dogs? If something happens that their owners can't keep their dogs....can the kennel take them back? or does the dog just end up in the local shelter or euthanised? Are the breeders working and titleing the dogs? Are they really mating the BEST possible matches....or the most convienient matches? Are they ethically screening potential homes properly to avoid bad placements or backyard breeders? Are the utilising the limited register? Do they keep in contact with all their puppies through out their lives (and deaths) to get necessary feedback on the health and temperment of their lines?
*Are they truly contributing to the betterment of the breed?
*or are they just making a good living?
are their studs and bitches being over-bred?

....the answers to these questions, should give you a pretty good idea why it's better to avoid them. ;)
 

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u mad?
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Neutering makes no difference with male on male agression. My entire male was quite tolerant of other males that had good manners....my neutered male didn't have manners and was the one with male dog agression.
This.

Welcome to the forums. I hope you take full advantage of all of the information here and take everything in. It would be very hard to go into this breed (Dogos too) unprepared.

My advice, if you often go camping and other activities where the "aggressive" breeds are banned - maybe this isn't the breed for you? Not that everyone is the same but I, personally, would want to get a dog that I could take with me to all of these things without a problem.
 

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joie de vivre
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It's good you're doing your research. I'd recommend you look really hard at breeders and choose an ethical one no matter what breed you decide on. An ethical breeder will be able to choose the right personality for your home regardless of sex. What I know about Dogos is they can be same-sex aggressive, as can Dobermans. So whatever you do, I'd not recommend 2 males or 2 females, but rather 1 male and 1 female.

Since you don't have experience with either breed I'd also recommend finding a good training facility you can get your first pup started at early in life.

PatchworkRobot brings up a good point. I've not personally encountered any problems with breed discrimination when taking my Dobes camping/hiking with me but if it's a frequent hobby of yours and you see that's a problem in your area I'd consider other breeds that may not cause an issue. Otherwise you may end up with a dog (or 2) who can't participate in some fun family outings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies!

I keep hearing breed experience, what exactly does that mean? Is it doberman specific or workign dog groups? I grew up with German shepherds all around me from k9 units to guard dogs. and I have had 60 lb rescue, a far cry from the size of a dobie or dogo, but still not a toy dog.

I will manage my family activities with either one, I will just have to do a bit more creative planning with the Doberman for now. I'd really liek to get envolved with dock jumping regardless of what I get or some sort of dog sport. pulling would be cool too, but I'm not sure the Dobie is built for that
 

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I believe that the Dog you linked to in your first post was bred by Lori Gorr of Gorrmae Dobermans in Michigan.

You have received some really good advice here. Breed experience is just that, experience with a specific breed.

Keep researching, visit some shows, learn as much as you can about the breed and set yourself up for success.

Good luck and welcome to DT.
 
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Hi and welcome to the forum and kudos for doing your research before getting your dog. Please keep reading and researching. There is a lot to learn. Also, please take a moment to do some research on health problems in Dobermans and also into reputable breeders and/or reputable rescues. Dobermans are not for everyone but once you have one in your life, you will be hooked forever.
 

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Dogo's are not for the faint hearted, they are a great deal of work, just as a Dobe is. Personally I would go for one or the other but if you want both then a 3 year gap is do-able but still a ton of work. Male - female mix is the best way to go. Both dogos and dobes can be/are known to be male aggressive. Research your breeders for both breeds, see pups, parents, grandparents if you can, preferably with kids. As for no breed discrimination regarding dogos, it will be there, just not necessarily on the surface.
 

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Dobermans are on the same "persona non grada" list that Rotts/GSD/Akitas/etc. are on. It is common to find housing difficulties when you own one of the Top Ten Aggression breeds. Also gaining admission to certain public activities could be difficult.
 

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joie de vivre
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I'm a GSD person and thought the Dobe would be pretty much the same in temperament and traits. Nope!
My sister has a GSD and a GSD mix and I agree - they are wonderful but they really are a different breed than the Doberman. My sister LOVES her dogs and she will more than likely always have at least one GSD but you couldn't pay her to live with a Doberman. Her words, not mine. LOL

OP, if you've not spent any time around Dobes or Dogos that would be my first suggestion. You may spend some time around the dogs and in-person one or both may not be what you're expecting whether that's good or bad.

I don't know how many people I encounter when I'm out with my dogs that have really skewed ideas of what Dobermans are like and it's not just people thinking they're dangerous or aggressive. I meet a lot of people who think Dobermans are really big couch potatoes, and therefore really easy going dogs. I think they hear them described as big lap dogs and they misinterpret that into thinking Dobes just lay around most of the day. Soooooo not the case. And shen we're out, my dogs are on their best manners possible. So they're polite, quiet, and listen when I tell them how they're allowed to interact with strangers. They're also generally more subdued because they're being mindful of their environment rather than trying to play. But you come to my house and observe them in their home environment and you will not see subdued dogs. LOL

So maybe before you get to far ahead of yourself in planning how to find a puppy, really put in the effort to get to know the breed and then decide if it's a dog you can live with.

I just felt the need to really emphasize that because you made the comment that you saw red Dobermans and then wanted one. A LOT of people are drawn to the breed because they're beautiful, but there's so much more to a Dobe than a pretty face. :) They have a ton of personality packed into each dog. It can be surprising if you've not spent much time around Dobes. Some people find it off-putting. Some people love it. But I would recommend anyone experience it before jumping head-first into a puppy search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It wasn’t the Red one persey, but more the stray we found on vacation. Granted I was only around it for a few hours, but it was a total sweet heart. sat half on the couch half on the floor with its head on someone’s lap. well behaved and obedient. That’s when I started debating the Dogo or Dobie. Until I get in the new house, I cant have either now. Closing is about a month away so.... but when i saw the Red's, they may be the best looking dog I had ever seen and on top of the sweetheart of a dog from vacation, I may be hooked. But I agree i need time around a Dogo. My in-laws live an hour from the breeder i was looking at. I want to visit him next time I’m there. and I’m sure I will fall in love all over again.... sigh...
 

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It wasn’t the Red one persey, but more the stray we found on vacation. Granted I was only around it for a few hours, but it was a total sweet heart. sat half on the couch half on the floor with its head on someone’s lap. well behaved and obedient. That’s when I started debating the Dogo or Dobie. Until I get in the new house, I cant have either now. Closing is about a month away so.... but when i saw the Red's, they may be the best looking dog I had ever seen and on top of the sweetheart of a dog from vacation, I may be hooked. But I agree i need time around a Dogo. My in-laws live an hour from the breeder i was looking at. I want to visit him next time I’m there. and I’m sure I will fall in love all over again.... sigh...


You sound like my boyfriend. I take him to play with GSD puppies one day and he he says he wants one. He goes on a Dobie rescue transport with me and says he wants a Doberman. I show him Beauceron pics and talk about them and he says he wants a Beauceron puppy. He fosters a bulldog mix and says he wants to keep him. :grinball1::noyesfight::emo8:
 

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That linked Dogo breeder appears to breed them for the sake of breeding. They do crop their dogs and keep them until healed, which is a plus. However, in their FAQ:
Do you recommend spaying or neutering your Dogo Argentinos?
Our Dogos have superior bloodlines and are bred for reproduction stock. Therefore we do not sell Dogos to those that intend to spay or neuter them.
Based on that, and the lack of actual pedigree and health information on the site (though perhaps that could be available on request?) I would not go with that Dogo breeder. Not everybody wants to breed, and not every dog born is fit to breed.
 

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u mad?
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You sound like my boyfriend. I take him to play with GSD puppies one day and he he says he wants one. He goes on a Dobie rescue transport with me and says he wants a Doberman. I show him Beauceron pics and talk about them and he says he wants a Beauceron puppy. He fosters a bulldog mix and says he wants to keep him. :grinball1::noyesfight::emo8:

Lucky! I show my boyfriend Dalmatian and pictures and videos and he still says he'd never want one. He has to many terrible assumptions but I'll change his mind someday.
 
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