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My husband and I have owned dogs our entire lives including a few Siberian Huskies (when I was young), and LOVE our current 2 dachshunds more than anything - we don't have children. We have admired the Doberman breed from afar for quite sometime and finally have the time and backyard to get one. Additionally, about a year ago our home was broken into and even though our alarm was blaring, the robber or robbers (they were never caught) got away with a few valuables but severely injured our female dachshund. We don't know quite what happened but she was found outside our home with burns! The police said she was trying to protect our house. So part of the appeal of the breed is the protective nature they display. Anyway, We have done tons of research including lurking here for a while and interviewing six or seven breeders all coming highly recommended on this site and DPCA. We have fallen in love with a 6 month old baby boy from a fabulous breeder and have a trainer lined up to come into our home weekly to help us and our dachshunds with the transition. This little boy was going to be shown, but was chosen over another male because of his sire being older and not reproducing anymore.

Here's the problem:

Our girl dachshund (12#)is dominant and 7 years, so there's a safety concern for her fragility and to be quite honest she has never been the same physically after the break in. The other MAJOR concern is our other dachshund is a neutered male (14#), 4 years, but extremely submissive. I've read so much about male-male aggression, but was wondering with the help of a trainer and the fact that he is super submissive help or are we still asking for trouble?? Obviously, our top priority is for our current dogs, and we haven't pulled the trigger on the dobie yet- he is not neutered and has experienced lots of socialization according to the breeder. He is also a very friendly pup with friends of all sizes, but I understand this can change very fast. If we get the dobe, we will neuter him. Help! We just want to make the best decision for our family!!!!
 

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In my opinion since I have a 14# female Dachshund and a 93# male Doberman I know what you mean about the dachshunds the problem is dachshunds do not see their self's as little they think they are as big as any dog. Since your male is 4 years old he possibly could be around most of a doberman's life not unless you are ready to rotate and crate IF the males do not get along. Both males may get along great until the male Doberman hits 2-3 years old then you might have a problem. Dobermans play really rough it is their nature not good for a dachshunds long back. Buddy (Dobe) would run over Patches (Doxie) when ever he gets the chance I have had to keep them separate since Patches had a neck issue screaming in pain and freezing we thought we were going to have to put her to sleep. We did the crate rest and 3 different types of pain pills for about a month she finely came out of it. I think Buddy just accidentally stepped on her both are 8 years old now I still keep them separate when we leave Patches is crated big difference in 14# vs 93#. There has been males that did get along but its just a " _ rap shoot'' you just do not know you can neuter all the males but you can't neuter the brain some are hard wired to fight other males. You may not know how it will pan out until the Doberman is 2-3 years old ? Then also I feel like if you have two dogs that usually works better to have the boy/girl relation ship works better than girl/girl or boy/boy. Then you have 3 = a pack situation may have more problems just because their are 3 of course some will agree and some will disagree so welcome to DT and hope I have helped a little.
At my house all goes well until Patches decides Buddy has done something she does not like she will launch her self at him air snapping and growling ? he just turns his shoulder and looks like really. I have a hard time keeping a straight face I do not wish to encourage it.
Sorry to hear about your little girl getting hurt I think Patches is a better watch dog than Buddy know she would protect me all 14 # if Buddy wakes up he might do something not sure if he would or not.
 

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Wow, what a brave little girlie you have! Glad to hear she's ok but sorry to hear it spooked her (don't blame her).

Personally I would not do it. I won't risk male/male households. I tend to find IF it works one dog never reaches it's full potential or gets "bullied" a bit more than I'd personally like. Rarely with Dobes males do I see them "easy peasy" with other males. If your boy is submissive, it might be really hard on him to bring another male in. I have an intact male Vizsla who is not a dominant boy and gets picked on by other males. So even though he would not fight, I wouldn't bring a male in as it would be harder on him.

The breeder is ok with 2 males?
 

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I agree with Adara. I would not bring another Male into the house, why risk the heartbreak of coming home one day a couple of years up the road and finding your Male Dachshund dead or badly mauled. Just not worth it, IMO.

I would also question a breeder that did not explain SSA to you and will sell you a Male puppy.
 

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I agree with the others. Maybe if your male daschund were another small breed, but otherwise I don't think it is a good idea. I would wait until you can get a female doberman (maybe after your older girl doxie passes away).
 

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Welcome to DT!
You've gotten some great answers.
Please feel free to share some pictures of your lovely dachshunds with us :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you everyone for your feedback and opinions! We appreciate everyone's time!

Yes, our female had quite an adventure and became somewhat of a celebrity in our neighborhood, at our vet and within the police dept. She is doing great, but is just a little slow now and prefers to stay out of rough playtime (this also is probably due to her age). She like laps and her "elephant" toy. That's all she needs and is content.

To clarify, we would never leave our dachshunds alone with another dog - male or female, doberman or not. The plan is to separate when we are not home and even have separate play times -we understand the commitment to being 24/7 refs and are fully prepared to give it. The dachshunds really just like to watch the "big dogs" play when we visit friends/family with big dogs. My husband is a runner and would take the dobie on his runs, which do not include the dachshunds. We are a home that has a lot of love to give and would love to give it to a dobie!

In terms of the breeder referenced above, after explaining the different personality types in our home, they recommended this male specifically for us - we wanted a female from knowing about male/male aggression. The dobe was a suggestion based on his personality and care-free attitude (I know, they fully mature at 2-3 yrs and could develop issues), which is why I am here asking the questions. This is not the only breeder who recommended a male since the females can get into it worse than males, which I have first hand experience while raising our Huskies. I would also like to clarify that the breeders are all found on the DPCA.org website and spoken highly of on this site. Additionally, our trainer, who has extensive experience with German Shepherds, thinks that it can work. We are obviously weighing all the options here and I came here to get the valuable opinion of the posters on this site since you all give great opinions and seem to tell it like it is.

I am attaching 2 pics of our babies. The male is the black and tan. They are absolutely in love with each other.
 

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Hmmm...tough situation. Would you be prepared to crate and rotate the dogs if this male did become intolerant of your male later in life? It's so hard to predict the adult temperament of a male puppy. In your situation, with a small breed dog that is very submissive, where there is likely to be less interaction, I honestly don't know what I would do, assuming you have the guidance of a very good breeder who knows their lines very well. It's a tough call. Because if things go wrong, your small dog could get very, very injured or killed.
 

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All I'm going to say is dobermans are nothing like a GSD...NOTHING!!! As a matter of fact using gsd training techniques on a doberman will not work well at all.

It's really best to find a positive only trainer, no forcing or compulsion, punishment based training.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've already discussed that with the trainer, but thank you for bringing that up, in case I wasn't clear. We are only using positive methods here. Just merely referencing experience with working breeds with potential aggression issues.
 

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Thank you everyone for your feedback and opinions! We appreciate everyone's time!

Yes, our female had quite an adventure and became somewhat of a celebrity in our neighborhood, at our vet and within the police dept. She is doing great, but is just a little slow now and prefers to stay out of rough playtime (this also is probably due to her age). She like laps and her "elephant" toy. That's all she needs and is content.

To clarify, we would never leave our dachshunds alone with another dog - male or female, doberman or not. The plan is to separate when we are not home and even have separate play times -we understand the commitment to being 24/7 refs and are fully prepared to give it. The dachshunds really just like to watch the "big dogs" play when we visit friends/family with big dogs. My husband is a runner and would take the dobie on his runs, which do not include the dachshunds. We are a home that has a lot of love to give and would love to give it to a dobie!

In terms of the breeder referenced above, after explaining the different personality types in our home, they recommended this male specifically for us - we wanted a female from knowing about male/male aggression. The dobe was a suggestion based on his personality and care-free attitude (I know, they fully mature at 2-3 yrs and could develop issues), which is why I am here asking the questions. This is not the only breeder who recommended a male since the females can get into it worse than males, which I have first hand experience while raising our Huskies. I would also like to clarify that the breeders are all found on the DPCA.org website and spoken highly of on this site. Additionally, our trainer, who has extensive experience with German Shepherds, thinks that it can work. We are obviously weighing all the options here and I came here to get the valuable opinion of the posters on this site since you all give great opinions and seem to tell it like it is.

I am attaching 2 pics of our babies. The male is the black and tan. They are absolutely in love with each other.
Aggression is a problem when the leader can't control their dogs. Same sex isn't what you should be focusing on. It's your ability and desire to lead and train fully or not. A leader can't control who will be best buddies but they have to be able to control the actions of all dogs in the pack in order to actually be the leader.

It sounds like the dominance and aggression isn't controlled in your home but that the male runs and cowers to the female. This will cause problems with a Doberman in the home as they mature. your younger dog will also want to play and you've already stipulated that the older more dominant dog doesn't want any part of that rambunctiousness now. MUCH easier for a dachs' back to get seriously injured than for some other small dogs to get injured in attempted play from a larger pup.

My concerns also stem from some of your plans. If you're never going to leave the dogs alone together, you're saying off the bat that you won't be reaching the point of reliable training and trust in your dogs to behave as you've instructed them. Not a great way to approach getting a new dog or keeping your existing dogs.

Are you planning on leaving the Doberman full run of the house so they can do protection work while your other dogs are caged? Not fun or fair for your existing dogs. Not even safe as they would be trapped in case of fire, flood, or if the Doberman really wants to get at one or both of them.

Setting up completely separate camps of dogs in one home isn't going to be fair to your current dogs or the new pup. You can't make full time owners for 2 separate sets of dogs. At best you can give them each 1/2 of your time and the small ones will be living a lot more of their lives in cages. It will be bad for the dogs and extremely tiring for you.

Your small dog may be a "celebrity" in the neighborhood but allowing a Doberman to repeatedly run wild in the same way is just as unsafe and will produce far worse problems.

If you aren't believing that you can take control and have all dogs behave according to your wishes to exist as a pack instead of 2 separate packs; it would be better to get an alarm system and leave your current dogs to enjoy the peace they've earned.
 

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I have never owned a male dobe with another male. I have been told about the aggression, but see many photos of multiple male dobermans together or males with other breeds of males. I guess it works for some people. OP you seem like a very intelligent person, you have a trainer, and aware of the possible agreesion that could come. It sounds like you already have a plan in place. Since the breeder has the right male for you, then just go for it. I applaud you for asking advice, however the decision is yours. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you show pics of your puppy when you get him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you, AKhiker, for the warm welcome.

Most importantly, I should mention we have and will never let our Dachshunds run free, including any potential Dobe we own. I gather you are assuming because our injured Dachshund was found in our front yard, she paroles or lives out there. In reality, the intruder kicked in our back door. The dog escaped because the door was in 2 pieces on the floor. Also, as a reminder and as mentioned in my first post, we have an alarm. In fact, the door that was kicked in had warning stickers on it. The alarm sound and signs were not a deterrent. The "celebrity" reference was in response to Adara's kind words about being happy our girl was OK (Thanks Adara!). Many neighbors we didn't know very well or at all stopped by to bring treats, toys and well-wishes for the little dog that was hurt by a robber trying to protect her house. What happened to us was sad and ultimately had a happy ending, but our experience has helped to highlight recent crime sprees in what is perceived to be relatively safe, suburban community. Additionally, we were told by the detectives we are a home that does "everything right" to avoid home invasion. We are now working with our neighborhood association to install security cameras in our community - we are on top of it.

We do have a pecking order in our home. Our female is more dominant and while the male doesn't necessarily cower behind her, he doesn't have the confidence she does and is skiddish at times, running to his mom or dad if spooked. He also flips right over onto his back when playing. The Dachshunds do play together, yes the older one gets sick of it much quicker and prefers laps, but I don't think recognizing a Doberman as a less than ideal playmate for a dachshund and separating playtime is necessarily a bad thing. In regards to having two separate packs under one roof, I am not suggesting that at all. I do not want that for our household or I wouldn't have come here and put our situation out here for judgy comments. I've been lurking here long enough to know better.

If we end up with a male Dobe, and he becomes intolerant of our male Dachshund, I have some experience with crate and rotate from our Husky days and while not at all ideal, is something we are willing to do. Although, I do not think this completely fair and would look to re-home, only in the right home.

I also don't think separating the Dachshunds and Dobermans when we are away, especially in the beginning is a bad idea. The ultimate goal would be to have everyone together (hence dox+dobe), and I apologize if it wasn't made clear from the get go...I was explaining short term. Before the break in, our Dachshunds were left to roam, but since then we have closed them in our bedroom in case someone wants to kick in the back door again. The bedroom is a very large room on the main floor with a sign to alert firemen there are animals inside, no floods here. I believe the Dachshunds would have the same chances of escaping a fire as a roaming Dobe, since we are talking specifics. This would not be any different from what we would look to do with our Dobe when we trust him/her enough to be out. I should mention our dachshunds were not left alone together until 1.5 years after the male was acquired when full trust was established. Again, ultimate goal is for all to be together, but understand this is very far down the road and would look to leave the Dachshunds in our room as it's what has been happening until we can trust everyone.

Thank you, LauraF for recognizing we have a plan. We have had this plan for a female for quite sometime, but the breeder called this male to our attention (after suggesting a submissive male over a female from the beginning) and we fell in love - it happens. I also should re-point out the breeder is very familiar with the bloodlines as this dog was originally kept for show. I have really appreciated all of the experiences and links to other threads people have shared and it seems there are two things here that my family should make our decision to get this male Dobe based upon - male/male aggression (which cannot be controlled) and proper training, which I believe we are demonstrating by hiring a trainer well before there is a problem, or a dog for that matter. We have a lot to think about with these two variables and again, the feedback has been much appreciated.
 

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I would never trust a large breed male of any breed with a smaller male dog after what happened to my sister's dog. They had a male Airedale Terrier that had been around small dogs all his life. He was neutered and had never bothered her male dogs or mine when I was down there.

They were together out in the yard and they were also out there, and they heard their other dog screaming and the Airedale had a hold of her male Shih Tzu x Maltese. They rushed him to the Vet but he was too badly injured and died after two hours of surgery.

When I decided to get a Doberman, I got a female as I have two male Shih Tzu x Maltese. I also have a couple of females but figured it was safer with a female and of course, they will never be left alone together inside or out.
 

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OP, I think you have gotten some great advice here from knowledgeable folks. Sounds like you've done your homework and should be applauded for that. The only thing I might add as a further caution is that this will be your first doberman, and they are a different breed. I think if you started out with a female as your first dobe (with your existing male pup) you would be better set for success. Reading about and raising a dobe yourself are 2 different things. In my humble opinion you would be much better set to take on the challenge of a potential male aggressive dobe if you had some background and hands on experience with the breed first. I can certainly understand the excitement of knowing a pup is there and ready to take home, and how hard patience is to come by when you want the pup now! But in the long run I think waiting for the perfect female would serve you and your crew best. Why would you even want to take the risk? Weigh the risk versus reward as with everything. My 2 cents. Good luck.
 

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Wow AKhiker that was a bit much.
doxdobe I think you are aware of the way dachshunds are I wanted you to be aware some males (aka Buddy) does not watch where he put his feet even now at 8 years old still a big puppy wanted you give you a heads up about that. There are some that have Doberman's and Chihuahua's it works if you are aware Doberman's play rough. Buddy would not hurt Patches intentionally he is just a big goofball most male are.
Once upon a time I had a 110# male Bouvier des flanders herding breed and a 7# female Papillon the Bouv was more careful around the Papillon than Buddy is careful around Patches. Since your husband is a runner you will have to wait to run with a doberman until about 18 months old the growth plates need to closed before running with them. Good Luck on you decision.
 

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Aggression is a problem when the leader can't control their dogs. Same sex isn't what you should be focusing on. It's your ability and desire to lead and train fully or not. A leader can't control who will be best buddies but they have to be able to control the actions of all dogs in the pack in order to actually be the leader.

It sounds like the dominance and aggression isn't controlled in your home but that the male runs and cowers to the female.
Seriously? Again? :rolleyesww: Please put the ceasar milan books down before you confuse more responsible dog owners.
 

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Raising a doberman with a fragile dachshund like your girl 'can' be done. My daughter's little Arwen will be 12 this year. She's tiny at only about 5 pounds. When she was 5, she became completely paralyzed. But, through the miracle of acupuncture, she's fully mobile and has only had one episode since, about 2 years after the first. The second episode wasn't as severe as the first and only included her neck and pain with no paralysis. That little dog has more spunk than most dogs half her age and still RUNS everywhere she goes. She goes on hikes often, and is a social butterfly.

All that said... Luke, my daughter's doberman, was a young pup when he 'moved in'. Luke is now 2 1/2. Arwen is very dominate, and Luke respects her. Actually, he adores her!
But she is a 'she'. If I were you, I would seriously consider looking into a female doberman. And, a puppy at that. The risk of possible male on male aggression is very real when it comes to your little shy guy.

Really, it all depends on each individual dog.

Here's a couple of pictures of Arwen and Luke.

Arwen's little face is getting so gray.



As you can see... his head is almost as big as she is!




Couple of pictures from about 4 months ago. My daughter with Arwen, and my son in law with Luke... after a hike to the 'top'.





And finally, Arwen enjoying a bully stick in Jan. of 2012

 

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Aggression is a problem when the leader can't control their dogs. Same sex isn't what you should be focusing on. It's your ability and desire to lead and train fully or not. A leader can't control who will be best buddies but they have to be able to control the actions of all dogs in the pack in order to actually be the leader.

It sounds like the dominance and aggression isn't controlled in your home but that the male runs and cowers to the female. This will cause problems with a Doberman in the home as they mature. your younger dog will also want to play and you've already stipulated that the older more dominant dog doesn't want any part of that rambunctiousness now. MUCH easier for a dachs' back to get seriously injured than for some other small dogs to get injured in attempted play from a larger pup.

My concerns also stem from some of your plans. If you're never going to leave the dogs alone together, you're saying off the bat that you won't be reaching the point of reliable training and trust in your dogs to behave as you've instructed them. Not a great way to approach getting a new dog or keeping your existing dogs.

Are you planning on leaving the Doberman full run of the house so they can do protection work while your other dogs are caged? Not fun or fair for your existing dogs. Not even safe as they would be trapped in case of fire, flood, or if the Doberman really wants to get at one or both of them.
Setting up completely separate camps of dogs in one home isn't going to be fair to your current dogs or the new pup. You can't make full time owners for 2 separate sets of dogs. At best you can give them each 1/2 of your time and the small ones will be living a lot more of their lives in cages. It will be bad for the dogs and extremely tiring for you.

Your small dog may be a "celebrity" in the neighborhood but allowing a Doberman to repeatedly run wild in the same way is just as unsafe and will produce far worse problems.

If you aren't believing that you can take control and have all dogs behave according to your wishes to exist as a pack instead of 2 separate packs; it would be better to get an alarm system and leave your current dogs to enjoy the peace they've earned.
To the bolded parts:

First you say she's wrong not to leave the dogs all together in the same place, and then you mention about the Dob if he's loose he could get at the Doxies through the kennel if he really wanted. Wouldn't this be why it would be safer to have all of the dogs seperated for their own piece of mind?

A dog should not be used as a protection for your home. I would much rather someone come in and take my TV then kill my dog and still take my TV.

My dogs are all crated when I'm not at home because it's safer for them. They don't get into the garbage, and there are no instances where there is any rough-playing or anybody getting hurt. I have an almost 3 year old Doberman who is big and bouncy just like anyone elses. I trust him not to harm my almost 17 year old Min Pin purposely, but if he were to run around, he could definitely accidently harm her no problem.

With big and small dogs you always have to be extra careful. Confining them seperately isn't mean, its just safe for everyone involved.

OP it sounds like you are definitely taking in everything that everyone is saying. Properly educating yourself is the best thing in any situation :)
 
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