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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi!

My girl Khaleesi is just over 5 months now.

She was on a complete kibble diet (Burns Puppy original chicken & rice) which is a good brand here in the UK.

However, she got sick and had really really bad diarrhea then snubbed her kibble and wouldn't eat.

We fed her just plain boiled rice and white fish to clear her diarrhea and block her back up.

She's also had a recurrent staph infection (3 loads of antibiotics and antibiotic shampoo) and as soon as she stops the antibiotics, it comes back again. After nearly a month on the last course, I didn't want her taking anymore. At the moment there is just a few scabs, hoping this will clear in a few weeks from the raw food!

I am feeding her a prey raw food diet! Already, even from 2 days I am noticing a shinier coat and normal poops!
Although, they are quite black? Assuming this is just from all the organs etc. Also, there's not a lot of poop?! She used to go nearly 5 times a day and at the moment it's once or twice.

This is where I get the food from: THE DOGS BUTCHER *RAW WORKING DOG FOOD ALL ETHICALLY SOURCED - Home
At the moment I am using the pre-made packs, just so she gets the right ratio! Any advice or extra tips would be greatly appreciated.
For example to stop using the pre-made packs what should I buy and mix up? I've also been told to give her a bone a week to give her some more calcium as growing pups need around 15% bone rather than 10%?


Edit: she's 25kg at the moment. I'm giving her roughly 1.5kg a day. When we calculated it she needed between 1.2-2kg a day so thought i'd go somewhere in the middle. Is this roughly the right amount?
 

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No extra calcium for growing puppies.

Looking for raw calculator now. Here you go: http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm

You might gleen some info here. I hear they can be a little extreme at times, so keep that in mind.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rawfeeding/info

Good information here and his book is supposed to be good. https://www.b-naturals.com/index.php?main_page=newsletters

A warning, recurrent staph infections in puppies can be a sign of allergies to come. Raw will help, but be aware if she starts itching when eating certain foods or when pollen starts up.

Stools shouldn't be black either. Call your raw food supplier and ask if its normal for what you're feeding. Usually black stools are a sign of internal bleeding like a bad case of hookworms can cause. Find out fast as she might need a trip to the vet.

One or two tiny poops are normal, tho.
 

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Check out Every Raw Feeder's Resource for Raw Diets they have some pretty good articles, they also have a few calculator tools that will help you figure out the amounts you should be feeding and even a break down of the bone %'s in different items.

At 5 months I was feeding at 10% of the current weight or probably around 4-5% of Ideal mature weight

As far as items goes my staples are chicken thighs, quarters and necks. Green Tripe, beef liver and hearts. I've been recommended that 50% of the diet should come from red meat ie pork or beef since its more nutrient dense but its give and take. Remy loves pork riblets. Just try to mix it up. I also throw in salmon heads, trout, herring periodically. I get organs from all different sources, goat liver, lamb kidney beef pancreas etc. you want 10% of the diet to be organ 50% of that should be liver.

You could also look into making golden tumeric paste. very easy to make and beneficial for your dog. There's also a sticky somewhere with some great books to read for reference.
 

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AmLex
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I am also from the uk and a raw feeder. There aren't many of us are there?! Lol! I agree that black poo isn't normal, my girl's range from light brown to medium brown depending on whether she has had bone in her meal. Also it is completely normal for the quantity of her poo to decrease. Here it is normal for one small one a day. It's funny how us raw feeders examine our dog's excrement! Haha! I did a lot of research on pre made raw and the cost was just excessive. I can feed my 35kg girl on £30 per month. What supplements are you giving her?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No extra calcium for growing puppies.

Looking for raw calculator now. Here you go: Calculate

You might gleen some info here. I hear they can be a little extreme at times, so keep that in mind.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rawfeeding/info

Good information here and his book is supposed to be good. https://www.b-naturals.com/index.php?main_page=newsletters

A warning, recurrent staph infections in puppies can be a sign of allergies to come. Raw will help, but be aware if she starts itching when eating certain foods or when pollen starts up.

Stools shouldn't be black either. Call your raw food supplier and ask if its normal for what you're feeding. Usually black stools are a sign of internal bleeding like a bad case of hookworms can cause. Find out fast as she might need a trip to the vet.

One or two tiny poops are normal, tho.
Yeah I'm quite prepared for her to get allergies, so I thought the raw food would help her out. I don't give her any treats with wheat or anything in anymore either. Just plain Turkey and rice treats or cooked bits of meat.

When I say black perhaps that was an overstatement, they were just quite dark with a slight greenish tinge compared to the normal light brown kibble diarrhoeaish poops I was used to. I did worry about bleeding and found a website that said organs can cause darker poops. I'm not worried as she just did a nice normal brown one! I have attached a picture for reference (sorry for the grossness)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Check out Every Raw Feeder's Resource for Raw Diets they have some pretty good articles, they also have a few calculator tools that will help you figure out the amounts you should be feeding and even a break down of the bone %'s in different items.

At 5 months I was feeding at 10% of the current weight or probably around 4-5% of Ideal mature weight

As far as items goes my staples are chicken thighs, quarters and necks. Green Tripe, beef liver and hearts. I've been recommended that 50% of the diet should come from red meat ie pork or beef since its more nutrient dense but its give and take. Remy loves pork riblets. Just try to mix it up. I also throw in salmon heads, trout, herring periodically. I get organs from all different sources, goat liver, lamb kidney beef pancreas etc. you want 10% of the diet to be organ 50% of that should be liver.

You could also look into making golden tumeric paste. very easy to make and beneficial for your dog. There's also a sticky somewhere with some great books to read for reference.
I will have a look at some calculators now! That's a really good idea guys about the paste, will make some of that later. And thanks for the ideas about what to use, perhaps when this 2 weeks of food have ran out ill look in to making some of my own. Do you pre-prepare this for each meal at the correct ratio and mince it up? Or just feed as it comes by weighing it out?
 

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I am also from the uk and a raw feeder. There aren't many of us are there?! Lol! I agree that black poo isn't normal, my girl's range from light brown to medium brown depending on whether she has had bone in her meal. Also it is completely normal for the quantity of her poo to decrease. Here it is normal for one small one a day. It's funny how us raw feeders examine our dog's excrement! Haha! I did a lot of research on pre made raw and the cost was just excessive. I can feed my 35kg girl on £30 per month. What supplements are you giving her?
There should be more! Good to have someone else here that does it too :) there are less of us!
Glad it's normal for her to poop less, any idea why?
Wow yes it is so expensive. Any tips on how you get yours down to £30 a month? How much did you feed her when she was a pup?
None at the moment.. What ones should I be giving?
 

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Poops are often really dark, almost black, when feeding good quality raw because there is a lot of blood in the meat. The stools will be WAY WAY smaller. There are a number of excellent threads on this forum about feeding raw. It seems like a hard go at first but once you have done it for a while it will be quite easy.

I don't think puppies should have a different ratio. If they were actually eating in the wild, there would be no difference between what youngsters and adults eat. Keep in mind that you won't have a "perfect" ratio every single meal but it should balance out over every 3-4 meals. Good luck!
 

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I will have a look at some calculators now! That's a really good idea guys about the paste, will make some of that later. And thanks for the ideas about what to use, perhaps when this 2 weeks of food have ran out ill look in to making some of my own. Do you pre-prepare this for each meal at the correct ratio and mince it up? Or just feed as it comes by weighing it out?
I do a weekly food prep typically sunday or saturday. Let everything thaw out a bit then with a digital scale start preparing things then half goes back into the freezer and half into the fridge and pull it out as i need it through out the week. Once you've done it a few times you can start to eye ball the portions. I try to break them into two categories so I make sure the balance as far as the organ and bone content etc is right, Breakfast and dinner. I would suggest looking into some cheap containers like these.

It may seem a little daunting at first but it gets real easy.
 

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AmLex
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There should be more! Good to have someone else here that does it too :) there are less of us!

Glad it's normal for her to poop less, any idea why?

Wow yes it is so expensive. Any tips on how you get yours down to £30 a month? How much did you feed her when she was a pup?

None at the moment.. What ones should I be giving?

They poop less because their bodies use a lot more of what is going in, therefore there is less waste to 'extract'. I didn't raw feed my girl as a pup...she is 2 now and has been converted for 18 months (converted her at 1) so can't help with that I'm afraid 😢.

Supplement wise I give her raw honey, coconut oil, turmeric, wheat grass, chia seeds, spirulina, green lipped mussel, glucosamine and salmon oil (on rotation). If you are on Facebook. There is a group called Raw Feeding Friends. There are lots of pinned posts and around 15000 members who are happy to give you guidance and answer questions.

With regards to the food cost, I am lucky enough to live near a meat market, where 16 chicken legs cost £7 and 2kg of liver costs £2 etc etc so just look around and see if there are any budget meat shops by you.
 

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Yeah I'm quite prepared for her to get allergies, so I thought the raw food would help her out. I don't give her any treats with wheat or anything in anymore either. Just plain Turkey and rice treats or cooked bits of meat.

When I say black perhaps that was an overstatement, they were just quite dark with a slight greenish tinge compared to the normal light brown kibble diarrhoeaish poops I was used to. I did worry about bleeding and found a website that said organs can cause darker poops. I'm not worried as she just did a nice normal brown one! I have attached a picture for reference (sorry for the grossness)
That's not really a "normal" raw fed poop. With proper bone balance they are almost always firmer and rarely yellowish brown. Sometimes they are mostly white and crumbly as excess digested bone is excreted, most everything else used. But, poops vary with what is being fed so I don't stress over each individual poop.
 

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Mine will get dark,sticky poo when they get too many meals of organs or red meat. Just means they need some higher bone meals,or higher percentage of bone in a prepared diet.
I try to mix things up,although I do make a grind for my cats,since my older cats don't have great teeth,having been fed dry food for 2/3rds of their lives.
My new puppy is on totally raw. I've had her two weeks and she hasn't had kibble since the 3rd to 4th day. I give her chicken 1/4s,or halves,beef and pork. She's a chowhound right now! She gets a little bit of organ meat ( a chicken liver this am with 1/4 of a chicken) and I try to buy all sorts of weird stuff through an online meat place.
I used to be a me bet of a great coop and could get anything,fresh and without sodium added. I'm stuck buying from the grocery in our small town since we moved and sure wish I had more access to poultry without added salt. I do love feeding turkey. I haven't had great luck getting my animals to feed fresh fish and I wish I could,since I have a pond with excess blue gill. I find that the dogs will eat a little fresh salmon but none have them have liked any sort of leaner fish raw so I try to get omega 3s from grass fed meat,as well as adding as much variety as possible. My animals do love cooked fish but it's too pricey to feed them much of that around here.
I was given about 100 lbs of grass fed beef last summer but that is nearly gone at this point.
Good luck on your raw journey! I've found it to be fairly easy. I use a rough calculation of 2% adult body weight for their daily feeding as puppies and just adjust up or down as needed based on weight,trying to make little adjustments every few days if they look too thin or fat.
To be honest,I'm pretty good at eyeballing at this point and only weigh when using grind.
 

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I would add a good probiotic. Antibiotics can cause an upset of the the good and bad bacteria in the intestinal tract.
Maybe find a good Holistic/Integrative Vet.
 

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I have to agree with Trish here, I see black poops when feeding bloody meats or an organ (liver) dense meal. In addition, I have weaned several litters to raw and have 2 dogs that were weaned to raw, have never even seen kibble and they were fed the same meat/bone/organ ratio as my adults, with no supplementation, from day 1. The dog in my signature is one that was weaned on raw, photo taken at 27 months of age.
 

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I supplement with evening primrose oil capsules. I use full fat plain organic yogurt sometimes for good gut flora but besides that I don't supplement much.. some sardines and fresh eggs from the coop every few days is enough.

In terms of keeping it cost effective. I find that organ meats are extremely cheap over here in Aus $2 per kilo or so? its the muscle meat (if you feed prey model) that can be costly. I get hearts of most species fairly cheap and roo meat is cheap, other than that just shop around. Head to your local butcher or market and make a deal to get offcuts or other bits cheap. My butcher gives me free pig trotters and a fair price on other stuff.

You can always buy whatever is on sale and freeze until you need it. I also do a weekly prep using a scale to try and get correct ratios but I am not too fussed about it, I just go by the condition of my dogs.

How are you going with it?
 

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Hi Frann. There are more raw feeders here in the uk than you think! I feed my 14 month old 500-750g of raw chicken with green tripe per day plus half a cup of wainwrights grain free puppy kibble because she needed the extra calories to gain weight. The chicken and tripe come in frozen 500g blocks and cost just over £1 each from a local pet store and there's also a wholesaler in the area that charges around the same. The meat is human grade and comes directly from the abattoir. My dobe is doing really well on this diet, fixed her diarrhoea problems, wind that could strip paint, and she's slowly filling out and covering those ribs! I've read a lot about supplements etc but she has a very sensitive stomach so for now I'm sticking to the basics and keeping it simple.
 
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